OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[Native Jovian]

(although it still isnt remotely useful)

I could be wrong but I think this is exactly what people are complaining about.

Also, good to see other people sharing my raging hatred of the ambassador

[The Author]

Now see, this is disappointing. I don't see this as a step forward to a better balanced pyro, its a step back to the status-quo and not a good one at that.

[atmuh]

how does this do what valve said theyd do "increase the degree to which skill can make a difference between two Pyro players"

it just made flames do a little bit less damage than they started at

[Powerlord]

how does this do what valve said theyd do "increase the degree to which skill can make a difference between two Pyro players"

it just made flames do a little bit less damage than they started at

Backburner got another damage buff... because it's now 25% more damage than it was before (+10% +15%), which is slightly higher than what the old flamethrower damage was, iirc.

[atmuh]

yes and how does that help the idea of "skilled pyros" at all

backburner takes absolutely no skill

[chivesontheweb]

So no Flamethrower rework like I was hoping for. They didn't remove anything that I hold dear, so I guess it's okay. Small steps in the right direction.

[Powerlord]

Servers are back up and operational. Flame on! And I don't mean flame wars.

[Vivi22]

and i really do enjoy all these people that used to just run around as a pyro with their eyes closed holding m1 and still end up getting kills all UP IN ARMS that their beloved [braindead] class has to be played intelligently now (although it still isnt remotely useful)

I really do enjoy that the only measure of skill you recognize is the ability to point and shoot. I guess Spies who are able to get behind the enemy team and effectively backstab have no skill since they just have to disguise and W+M1.

Anyway, I initially read that flare gun update as being for the flamethrower, as in it would crit from the middle to the end of it's range. I'm really glad I re-read that because good god that would be bad.

[atmuh]

I guess Spies who are able to get behind the enemy team and effectively backstab have no skill since they just have to disguise and W+M1.

thats mostly luck coupled with decent decision making but really anyone can i almost never play spy and i have no problem doing it the rare occasions i do

and yes aiming is the best determination of skill, whether it be hitscan or prediction

[ParanoidDrone]

I could be wrong but I think this is exactly what people are complaining about.

Also, good to see other people sharing my raging hatred of the ambassador

Then you would have loved me last night on Pipeline.

Backburner got another damage buff... because it's now 25% more damage than it was before (+10% +15%), which is slightly higher than what the old flamethrower damage was, iirc.

Numbers: The Flamethrower's current damage modifier relative to its original value is 88%, while the Backburner sits at 101%.

I really do enjoy that the only measure of skill you recognize is the ability to point and shoot. I guess Spies who are able to get behind the enemy team and effectively backstab have no skill since they just have to disguise and W+M1.

*shifty eyes*

Also you forgot M2 for cloak/feigned deaths.

[The Author]

Ya know, reading the TF2 forums showed what could be a good solution:

I stand by my "narrower but longer" flamethrower hits, but also have a scaling damage based on the distance thing. At the edge of the flame, the flamethrower does about 50% of the damage, and the afterburn is shorter, like 4 seconds, less damaging. Mid of the column you get about 80% damage, and about 7 seconds of afterburn. Point blank shot: 100% of the damage, 10 second afterburn that leaves a mark. Buff up the damage of the flamethrower to about 115% of what it was originally. Airblasting an enemy on fire "consumes" the afterburn, causing 50% of the damage that was left on the burn instantly but extinguishes the enemy.

The backburner damage seems fine right now, but maybe make the same change to the range and area of the flame, and at the middle of the range change the crits into mini crits.

There, you need skills to ambush, skills to aim, and you have the option to either airblast/shotgun, or get even closer. Skills and strategy.

[Powerlord]

Airblasting an enemy on fire "consumes" the afterburn, causing 50% of the damage that was left on the burn instantly but extinguishes the enemy.

If you're that close to them, why not just axtinguish them? It does over 100 damage to people on fire.

[The Author]

Cuz I gots my homewrecker?

That and well, you airblast a group of burning people you get basically a small pipe bomb going off.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out ways to rebalance the pyro while changing how it is played to involve more skills.

[Powerlord]

Cuz I gots my homewrecker?

That and well, you airblast a group of burning people you get basically a small pipe bomb going off.

Yes, that and it's an easily abuseable ability. It's up there on par with the Spy's Dead Ringer when it first came out... you could use it over and over and over and never die with it. In this case, you could just write a quick macro to alternately flame and airblast to do massive damage.

[The Author]

Well, it's always a question of choosing if you want to have the foes burn for the whole afterburn damage, or just part of it, since a group is not always gonna be in your "OMGBBQ" range, you might end up consuming an afterburn that deals only 10 dmg to most. And well, reload rates on the afterburn and ammo consumption are deterrents.

[ParanoidDrone]

It still eliminates puff-and-sting as a legitimate means of killing someone, so I'm not a fan of that idea.

[Vivi22]

*shifty eyes*

Also you forgot M2 for cloak/feigned deaths.

I was just making the point that everything requires less skill when you over simplify how to play a class.

[atmuh]

yeah because tf2 is a really complicated game

[The Author]

It still eliminates puff-and-sting as a legitimate means of killing someone, so I'm not a fan of that idea.

Well, you see, this is where I would disagree with you. On a one on one fight, using the axtinguisher would be the number one recourse, unless the target is fast moving. Airblast and enemies on fire should interact in some fashion, it would give the regular flamethrower one more option. Strategy is not always falling back to the one way of doing things. Maybe balance the damage on the lower side, 40% of the afterburn effect or something like that, there are ways to tweak this into balance. Assume that the most damage you can get out of a close range afterburn using my approach is around 60 (10 seconds at 6 dmg per second) the airblast in this case would deal 30 or less damage. Not the huge spikes the axe can give. And if that doesn't kill the target, then you have a foe that is back into the low damage range of the flamethrower even outside of it, not on fire, and quite angry at you.If that guy is a heavy, the minigun would be spinning, and you would end up being minced meat. So in that case going flame + axe would be the better choice.

It would augment the need for strategy in general also because now you would have to think: do I airblast or simply run away? In some cases it would knock people out of healing range, from carts or dispensers, where the burning effect would be negated fast.

Right now however, the M1 + W strategy has been replaced by M1 + M2 + W. Not much of an improvement.

[chivesontheweb]

Right now however, the M1 + W strategy has been replaced by M1 + M2 + W. Not much of an improvement.

It's a huge improvement. M1 is a stream of flames with nothing to learn beyond the misleading weapon range. M2 does no damage on its own and has to be used creatively to get the most out of it. A bit of finesse can go a long way with the compression blast; you have to know where you want your enemy to go and aim in a way that will get them there. Sure, you can just run at enemies hitting M2 but it's hardly comparable to W + M1.

Personally, I think the airblast is fine and is in no need of change, especially one that doesn't quite fit with the nature of the airblast to begin with. It's the flames themselves that need an overhaul if you really want to 'fix' Pyro.

[Powerlord]

It's a huge improvement. M1 is a stream of flames with nothing to learn beyond the misleading weapon range. M2 does no damage on its own and has to be used creatively to get the most out of it. A bit of finesse can go a long way with the compression blast; you have to know where you want your enemy to go and aim in a way that will get them there. Sure, you can just run at enemies hitting M2 but it's hardly comparable to W + M1.

Personally, I think the airblast is fine and is in no need of change, especially one that doesn't quite fit with the nature of the airblast to begin with. It's the flames themselves that need an overhaul if you really want to 'fix' Pyro.

The problem is that damage got bumped back up, plus the afterburn time went back to its old length, yet the airblast change and its 2-3x distance stayed...

[Powerlord]

A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive it. The specific changes include:

Added new community weapons and hats.

Updated CP_Gorge

- Added nobuilds to the awnings outside BLU's forward spawn to preventing players building up there.

- More clip work and model collision work based on community feedback.

- Fixed BLU forward spawn door appearing through roof.

Updated PLR_Pipeline

- Added new stairwell in Stage 1 and window access to both teams' platforms by main choke point to help alleviate stalemates.

- Reverted the starting position for the cart in Stage 3 if a team had won the first 2 stages to where you no longer get a big cart-start-position advantage.

- Fixed rare cases where stage would break when cart had no nearby capper(s).

- Fixed carts not always moving to their starting locations correctly.

- Fixed respawn times in Stage 3 not being set to the proper values.

- Fixed the map not finishing correctly in Stage 3 if the two teams capture the final point at the same time.

Removed sv_showhitboxes to avoid players confusing it with the method by which we do hit detection (see http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking for info)

So, anyway... more new hats and weapons? And thank $deity that plr_pipeline finally had that idiotic cart change to Stage 3 finally reverted. Maybe it won't be hated as much now.

Servers are now back up and running.

The new items are:

Sniper: Tribalman's Shiv - Melee - On Hit: Bleed for 8 seconds. -35% Damage

Demoman: Scotman's Skullcutter - Melee - +20% Damage Done. 15% slower move speed on wearer.

Hats:

Scout: Whoopee Cap

Soldier: Sergeant's Drill Hat

Pyro: Whiskered Gentleman

Pyro: Vintage Merryweather

Demoman: Tippler's Tricorne

Heavy: Heavy Duty Rag

Engineer: Safe'n'Sound

Medic: Ze Goggles (they do nothing! er... that's not in the name)

Medic: Gentleman's Gatsby

Sniper: Bloke's Bucket Hat

Spy: Frenchman's Beret

New Crafting Recipes:

Fabricate Scotsman's Skullcutter: 1 Axtinguisher + 1 Jarate

Fabricate Tribalman's Shiv: 1 Huntsman + 1 Dead Ringer

[Brushfire]

Just an FYI, here are what the new items look like.

[Powerlord]

I had what I thought was an amusing moment on cp_badlands early today.

I was playing Spy on RED. We had 3 points and had halfway capped the fourth, but were stopped.

I moved to the last point while cloaked (using Cloak and Dagger) and disguised as a BLU Pyro. I decloaked near the point, then ran to it as if I were on BLU guarding it.

Frogg ran by upstairs, saw me standing on the point, shot at me four times from upstairs (missing twice), but I remained just standing there.

After he was out of sight, I cloaked, then uncloaked to kill an engineer who jumped down and started to build a sentry in the corner.

Cloaked again, switched disguises while we captured point 4, then uncloaked to capture the last point.

Turns out that even Frogg can be fooled.

[Kiyobi]

Oh god that monocle