Looking for space combat/trading sims like Freelancer

[prophetik music]

see the title. freelancer was good because of a solid (if cliched) storyline, simple interface that didn't require a joystick or a ridiculous number of button macros, and fun, complex combat. considering the game came out in 2003, the graphics in-flight are ridiculously good, too. way better than i'd have expected.

i like newer games, and i'd love to try X3: Terran Conflict, but i've heard stories of it not running on w7 machines, or utilizing more than one core in a multicore system or more than 2gb of ram - which is ridiculous for a game has been getting expansions for years. does anyone know if it runs on w7?

beyond that, what are some good games to try out? i'd prefer a relatively new game, and DorkStar One does not count (worst story and voice acting EVER. i'd rather they didn't have anything at all).

[Clefairy]

Elite-style games are basically a dead genre at this point. For something new-ish, I'm pretty sure you're out of luck.

It would take some finangling, but Freespace 2 has gotten some fan-made graphical updates since it went open source. Leans hard on the combat end of things, though, which you may not appreciate.

For economics, the X series is about as good as it gets in the last decade. So far as I'm aware, anyway.

Don't know how you feel about MMOs, but Eve Online has a lot of these mechanics, and receives constant dev support to this day. It's a wild and wooly universe, though; non-consensual pvp, lots of political backstabbery, wide swaths of lawless space. There's a good game in there, but it's very niche.

[prophetik music]

i can't touch mmo's right now. too dangerous, if you know what i mean =) i keep having mixed feelings about EVE online, though - some people say that it's awesome, some hardcore players say it's boring as hell and anyone trying to get into it now is going to be helplessly behind in exp and levels.

i knew about freespace 2's graphics updates. are they finished? last i heard, they only had like half the game updated.

[Clefairy]

Yeah, I know what you mean =P

I haven't checked in with the project in a while. By the state of the forums I would assume not, though they're up to version 3.6.10. That's a huge amount of progress compared to what I remember.

I might pick it up again, just for the sheer amount of extra content. They've got mods in here for days; everything from Starfox to Wing Commander to Babylon 5, and a bunch of original campaigns.

EDIT: As to your mixed feelings, here. Read through the whole thing (more links at the bottom), it should go a long way to help decide one way or the other.

Of course that might be a bad thing, depending on your self-control.

[Moguta]

If you do have a joystick, you can always try this remade classic:

http://privateer.sourceforge.net/

[prophetik music]

i'm a bit of a new-game snob. i just don't like bad graphics unless they're mario-on-NES kind of bad.

[HalcyonSpirit]

i like newer games, and i'd love to try X3: Terran Conflict, but i've heard stories of it not running on w7 machines, or utilizing more than one core in a multicore system or more than 2gb of ram - which is ridiculous for a game has been getting expansions for years. does anyone know if it runs on w7?

X3TC: I play this. I'm running W7. So, obviously it DOES work. I would just advise not putting it on the system drive in the Program Files folder, as it can have issues with the admin rights. Otherwise, it'll work fine. The game has a RIDICULOUS number of scripts and mods available for it, making the game insanely better, and you can customize some of those you use to better suit your playstyle.

Yes, the game has the issue of only using one core. This is because it is still using the X3: Reunion engine, which was coded before multicore was becoming mainstream. The game used to be limited to 2GB of RAM, but the latest 2.7 patch released a few days ago lifted that limitation, which, along with the optimizations that came with the patch, improved the performance significantly. The game is not graphics-intensive for how good it looks, so if you have at least the GeForce 9x00 series graphics card or equivalent, you'll be able to have the graphics to max settings (or damn close to it).

If you have a CPU that has single-core speeds of 2.6 GHz or faster, you won't have much of an issue running X3TC unless you REALLY overdo it with the scripts and mods. The CPU I have is 2.83 GHz, and if you have over 3.0 GHz you're golden.

As for other games, I've heard good things about Evochron Legends, but I haven't played it myself.

[prophetik music]

i remember what cpu you've got, man. i put it in there, didn't i? =)

my gaming system is an i7 860 (2.8ghz x 4, plus HT) with a core 216 gfx card, so i'm sure i'd kill it.

i'll look into it more. which scripts and mods would you recommend?

edit: steam's got reunion, too. i know nothing about the storyline - should i play reunion first?

[OverCoat]

My corp in EVE Online originated in Freelancer, actually we're even named "Xeno Tech Corp" which is a pretty fuckawesome name if you ask me.

It's probably the only game since then with the same or greater amount of depth.

[WindStrike]

There's a really awesome looking Star Wars Freelancer mod still in development that looks like it'll be epic - http://www.freeworlds-tow.net/

... but of course, no one really knows WHEN it'll be released.

In related news, we could see a space simulator in Starcraft 2 when it finally releases -

[HalcyonSpirit]

my gaming system is an i7 860 (2.8ghz x 4, plus HT) with a core 216 gfx card, so i'm sure i'd kill it.

It'll be sufficient. It'll slow a bit with larger groups of ships duking it out, but I've had about 50-100 ships doing their combat thing at one time without too much of an fps drop, and that was before the 2.7 patch.

i'll look into it more. which scripts and mods would you recommend?

Depends on whether you want to focus on trade or combat (and at that, single-ship or fleet combat). Some, though, are great for enhancing game performance as a consequence of the modifications made. Combat Mod 3 is one of them. And then some just enhance the feel of the game.

I want to note, though, that playing through at least a couple of the plots without mods first is a must; it lets you decide on what aspects of the game you like and what aspects you want to change.

I do recommend either getting Combat Mod 3 or one of the combat performance mods in order to improve combat performance. That's almost a must. I also recommend getting the unofficial bugfix mod that corrects many of the issues the game still has (like improper model placements and such). Pirate Guild 3 adds a lot of life to the pirates, and makes interacting with them feel more realistic - you have more options than just "kill or ignore." Phanon Corporation adds a corp that'll try to establish a trade empire in the universe and try to destroy yours in the process. Improved Races adds better racial AI to the game, making the militaries respond better to threats and making the Xenon an actual threat in the universe again (same with the Kha'ak, though I don't use that portion yet). CODEA Weapon System adds fleet management to the game as best it can (fleet management in Vanilla is horrible). In fact, all of Lucike's scripts (from combat to trade scripts) are worth downloading. The Galactic News System is new, but will eventually add new functionality and immersion to the game - ESPECIALLY once the huge Xtended Mod for TC comes out. Out Of Sector Damage Rebalance is almost a must, since Vanilla OOS combat is poor. Might also consider the Ship Rebalance Mod. Rank Dial and Change Notoriety Growth Rates reduce the rate at which you gain ranks (the Vanilla growth rate is FAST, too fast). Etc., etc.

To put it in perspective, I've got about 80 different mods/scripts active in my current game, and I like to focus on the combat side of things, so my scripts try to 1) automate trading as much as possible, 2) improve combat performance and enjoyment, and 3) make the universe more alive and dangerous. I'm probably going to cut the number down a little for next game, but not by much. I can send you a list of the modifications I'm using with links to where I got them if you'd like, so you can read about what each does. In addition, you can go to Egosoft's forum to look at the modding community yourself: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewforum.php?f=94

edit: steam's got reunion, too. i know nothing about the storyline - should i play reunion first?

It's not entirely necessary. Reunion's plot is secondary to everything else, really, and is mostly just a tutorial to get you started in playing the real game. There isn't much to it, either. The TC plots are similar, though they can be difficult, and mainly serve to open up new areas of the universe and/or change certain aspects of the universe at large.

Reunion and TC are very similar gameplay-wise, as they're based on the same game engine, but some mechanics changed slightly between them. Generally, people find TC to be better, run better (Reunion was notorious for CTDs), have a better interface, and have more stuff to do in it. Plus, the modding community for TC is very, very active, while Reunion's has sputtered to a halt. In essence, Reunion isn't really necessary, but a few people like it better. Most like TC better, though.

Oh, and pretty soon, Egosoft is going to be releasing their Superbox, which is a collection of ALL their X-Universe games in one package. Might want to wait for that if you're interested in playing them all.

[prophetik music]

if you were to send me a list of what mods i should use for the first time through the game that make the game run smoother, i'd appreciate it.

[HalcyonSpirit]

I'll just post it here, since it isn't much and others might appreciate it.

A list of CPU performance-improving mods can be found here (slightly incomplete, though): http://www.universesearch.co.cc/x3tc/

These mods are the ones I recommend that improve game performance while not changing aspects of gameplay itself:

No Civilians Full

Performance Complex Tubes

Unofficial Bug Fixes

Improved Combat Frame Rate

Lower Poly Asteroids

These mods improve performance while changing aspects of gameplay:

Remove Rocks from Universe (Removes the ability to mobile mine ore and silicon due to removing the small rocks in the sectors.)

X3 Unleased (Changes the jobs file so that there are fewer military, trading, and civilian ships while maintaining viability of the game's universe. This has not been updated since patch 2.1, so the changes from later patches to the Jobs file will be revered by this mod. Best to play the game first before using.)

Combat Mod 3 (Combines the effects reductions from "Improved Combat Frame Rate" with weapon adjustments to reduce "firing spam" that slows computers. It also changes the roles of some weapons and how shields recharge, thus changing combat significantly.)

[prophetik music]

long story short, i played x3 for several hours today trying to like it. i didn't, and deleted it with the wrath of a thousand gods. it was boring as hell! even with the time speed-up thing!

blargh. so i'm still looking. looks like i might be giving eve online a shot, now.

[HalcyonSpirit]

Wait, you only tried it for "several hours"? You didn't even get into the meat of the game! Hell, you probably didn't even get past the optional tutorial, nor learned how the game really works.

Shaaaaaaaame.

It's damn hard to pick up the first time, but starting a new game never takes as long as it does the first time around. Not by a long shot. Took me two days to get to a decent position the first time; took an hour to get to the same level my next time around. Why? I knew the game mechanics. And once you know the game mechanics... that's when things get interesting. Just ask all the military fleets I've stomped on with my own fleet how interesting it can be.

That said, sounds like you might be looking for a "pick-up-and-be-in-the-middle-of-action-in-ten-minutes-flat" game. This ain't it. Takes at least 20.

[prophetik music]

maybe i'll try again. it just seemed really boring =(

[The Author]

i can't touch mmo's right now. too dangerous, if you know what i mean =) i keep having mixed feelings about EVE online, though - some people say that it's awesome, some hardcore players say it's boring as hell and anyone trying to get into it now is going to be helplessly behind in exp and levels.

Well, here's the thing about EVE. You wanna be a trader? It'll take about 3 months to get good at it, and 2 years to be the best. But you need money, so you probably need a month or 2 getting the skills to mine to get the capital to start trading. And at that point the money should flow in if you master the trading game.

But, after that 5 months, your mining barge won't be enough, and your transport ship wont be big enough for the massive shipments, so you'd spend another 5 months getting into exhumers and maybe even an Orca. Once you're there, you can ship massive volume, but then there are supper massive freighters, another 3 months of skills and boom, now you can carry every ship you've ever owned, 5 times, in the hull of that super freighter. You can buy accross solar system, and you make a lot of money. You can mine out materials to start up the production lines, so why not own the production lines? So you become a manufacturer, that'll take 5 to 6 months to master.

EVE is complex, the learning curve is steep, but if you want to get into a field, you need at most 5 hours of training to get in (which runs passively so Yay!) Then you need about 3 months to get to the good part of that field. Then you need 6 months to master the field. And then you can throw in about 2 years of training that wont be as profitable as getting into nearby fields. Mining leads to exploring leads to manufacturing and trading leads to transporting leads to corporate management. Mission running leads to advanced piloting leads to exploring, leads to PVP.

And the world is such as there is a world for you to explore no matter where you are in your evolution. When it comes to the economy in EVE, everyone needs Tritanium, and you can mine that from the first day you get in the game to a reasonable profit. Everything above that depends on your choices.

And it isn't an addiction fest, you can start training a skill that takes 15 days to train and go on vacation, when you come back the world will still be there and suckers will buy your shipments of ore for twice what you paid 2 solar systems over.

Edit, not that I play anymore, but it isn't because of the game more than personal things.

[HalcyonSpirit]

maybe i'll try again. it just seemed really boring =(

New players often get that feeling; it's a difficult game to get into at the start. It comes with the way the game is set up. The game has over 200 sectors in it, and each one of them is being simulated, even when you're not in them.* Plus, since game starts begin with you having virtually nothing, it takes a little while for the player to get a foothold in whatever it is the player wants to do. Combined with the complexity of the game, it can be off-putting and "boring." It certainly doesn't help that the first start option most players choose upon playing for the first time puts you in Terran space, which is, hands down, the most boring set of sectors in the game.

The game doesn't necessarily try to make the game interesting for you; it only provides the necessary framework, just like how real life only provides the opportunities. You have to go and find that which you find interesting to do, whether it be combat, trading, or whatever. Most players go the "make an empire from scratch" route, but that's not all you can do. Especially once you start adding modifications to the game that add functionality and dynamic events.

I find that new players get more interested after reading N-S's Dead-is-Dead stories, showing what some people do in the game, so here's one you can look at if you want: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=248619

* Whatever happens in them occurs because of other events. The universe is dynamic, with hardly anything happening "randomly." The exceptions being Kha'ak invasions and some of the missions you see on stations. So it's not like you'll be seeing something interesting in most every sector you go to; interesting things happen regardless of whether you're there to see it or not. You'll miss some things and catch others.

[The Biznut]

Just saw the title and was reminded of Space Trader. It was developed by Hermitworks, a game developing company headed up by a few ex Bioware people. It's available on a new Games on Demand service called Beamdog. That game is basically interplanetary commodity based trading with an FPS element involved should you be "pulled over" for transporting illegal goods or if you choose to earn credits by accepting bounty hunter missions.

I think its 10 bucks, don't know if this is what you're after but thought I'd post.