The Extra Credits thread!! EC is amazing!

[relyanCe]

worked for me, and it is definitely one of the best ones yet.

keep it up seph, your stuff makes fridays rockawesome.

[big giant circles]

Yeah, finally worked for me. Guess they had a hiccup earlier tonight.

You totally should have used AnSo's Mass Effect 2 ReMix as the credit music though

[sephfire]

Yeah, finally worked for me. Guess they had a hiccup earlier tonight.

You totally should have used AnSo's Mass Effect 2 ReMix as the credit music though

Ooo, that would have been a good one too. Ah well, I'm sure we'll be talking Mass Effect again eventually. And given his output, there's no way AnSo won't end up in the end credits someday soon.

[Souliarc]

So happy to look forward to this show every week. The ideals presented have basically taken my own pondering thoughts, that I haven't been able to really put a conclusion on, and made them verbalized and concrete.

I love how this new episode distinctly emphasized that video games INVOLVE the person experiencing them. There's no sitting on the bench watching the decisions being made for you, like movies or books. I love movies and books, no doubt, but video games have taken it to the next level in holding you accountable for your actions. Granted, we have only recently (in the whole time spectrum of video games) really invested time into "choice" and done it well, but the potential is so massively there.

It seems the only counters movies and books have is there lower, required time invested. I've always said I wish there were 8 more hours in a day just so I could play video games. 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, 8 hours for what we will, 8 hours for video games!

[Fishy]

D'aww I think you missed a golden opportunity to discuss Heavy Rain. I literally spent 20 minutes trying to decide what to do in the final trial. It was decision-based torture throughout.

Although to be honest it would've spoiled the story somewhat so I can understand why you might not have.

[BardicKnowledge]

D'aww I think you missed a golden opportunity to discuss Heavy Rain. I literally spent 20 minutes trying to decide what to do in the final trial. It was decision-based torture throughout.

Although to be honest it would've spoiled the story somewhat so I can understand why you might not have.

Seriously, that game was amazing. I spent the entire allotted time debating about the Lizard trial.

[big giant circles]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2005-Gamer

Another excellent video Dan. Nice OCR plug at 4:47

[BardicKnowledge]

Really nice video on a point I hadn't even thought of.

[Souliarc]

You can't deny the stigma around the term "gamer", but that's because of one monumental difference between games and other mediums (i.e. books, movies). Human to human interaction. When you bring human interaction into something, you are also bringing all of our pitfalls and all of our redeeming qualities. Especially with FPS', a genre where ego is a huge factor, due to that fact that other people can't literally stop DEAD your interacting experience. People don't interact with each other in other mediums in a way that effects the movie or book's journey and outcome. It will always be the same. Granted, discussion may merit different points of view, but generally one set of conclusions will be met for the movie, and this can't be done with games simply because of the the act of direct human interaction and choice.

Our interactive level in gaming has the potential (if not already) to go way beyond what experiences we get from movies and books. It's all about experience, no pun intended

[Less Ashamed Of Self]

I've personally never felt the least bit embarrassed about gaming or felt a desire to lead a double life about it.

I felt that way about anime though.

Also; amazing vid man. I love instinctively and audibly 'mmmm'ing in agreement.

[big giant circles]

Can't believe nobody else has updated this yet, especially considering the topic:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2019-Videogame-Music

[Dhsu]

No OCR pimpage? Daniel-san, I am disappoint.

[big giant circles]

No OCR pimpage? Daniel-san, I am disappoint.

Well, considering the topic wasn't game music remixes and simply game music evolution itself, it doesn't seem like a foul to me. Besides, game-related fan art (music, art, fanfic, cosplay, etc etc) could all probably warrant their own topics each. Plus he gave OCR a plug last week.

Also, thanks for the shout out at the end, Dan

[sephfire]

Also, thanks for the shout out at the end, Dan

Hey, you did help.

[Master_Yoshi]

Yup, awesome vids continue to be awesome. If anything, you guys have gotten better at cutting through to your main points and delivering sound, reasoned arguments to back yourselves up. Good onya!

[BardicKnowledge]

Awesome video -- could be my favorite yet. The musicologist in me would have liked to see some more discussion over what makes game music unique compared to other media (the Yamaoka segment touched on this). The "dual-axis" (quality of music combined with quality of integration) evaluation of both film music and VGM is something that needs to be explored further, as are concepts unique to only game music.

Edit: It comes to mind that there is a video game character whose games are always very nostalgic of "the way things were" to me -- Kirby's games recall the early days of gaming in a way that few franchises dare to do these days. The music shows it also with the focus on melody. Thoughts?

[BlackPanther]

Great vid like all the other ones you've done so far.

[Souliarc]

Melody... sweet intoxicating melody. Awesome video pinpointing game music's evolution and integration. BardicKnowledge does bring up some great topics to be discussed and digested as well.

I do have one topic of concern though. Is Harry Gregson-Williams and Hans Zimmer composing music for video games really that great?

Like Rich (a game composer himself) states in his blog, these big shots are coming in and making the already mega-competitive game composer scene even more overcrowded. It seems to be pushing out those who have a niche specifically for video game music. I mean sure, the pieces are good (Metal Gear's Main Theme is one of my FAVS) and the entitlement that comes along with the credits sure gets the game attention, but in the long run, will we lose the originality and integration that is video game music to massive Hollywood scores?

[zircon]

I don't think there's anything wrong with film composers doing game music. There are, after all, many different types of games. Some games are intended to be very cinematic in nature, and they mimic Hollywod in production and presentation. Now, whether you think these games are good or bad is beside the point - surely you would agree that for a "summer blockbuster" style game, you want music to match, and there are film composers who are quite good at it.

Worrying about market overcrowding because some big name composers are doing game scores is ridiculous. If you're going to worry about overcrowding at all, look at ALL of the film scoring and music programs in the United States. I can't say with any certainty, but there's gotta be tens of thousands of people pouring into the music-for-film/TV/game industry every year, if not more. And cheaper, higher-quality tools are only leveling the playing field. THOSE things are the cause of overcrowding, NOT a couple of Hollywood composers coming in.

[Souliarc]

I do see your points.

I wouldn't say, though, that worrying about market overcrowding due to the film composers coming in is anything to brush off. I understand that music in general is a crowded field, but I'm only worried about the integration into video games. After all, video games are a completely different medium and is quite a paradigm shift for film composers, yet they have the resources to work from the TOP down into many games. It will affect the game music scene greatly. For good or bad, well... we will see.

[big giant circles]

I'm actually more with Travis on this one, Andy. And I've actually experienced this very issue first hand. It's not that "a couple film composers are crowding out the market", it's that game devs are going to pass up "lesser name" composers who are just as capable so they can add a big name to help sell their product. I mean, I know I can't fault them for this, but that's exactly why I'm not particularly keen on the idea of having to compete with film composers. There are plenty of composers who are just as skilled as many film composers but at the end of the day, the devs are going to go for the bigger name if they can.

[Dhsu]

Dunno if anybody already mentioned this at The Escapist, but Gregson-Williams actually didn't compose the MGS theme. Tappy composed the track for the first MGS (and even he might not be the original composer).

[zircon]

I'm actually more with Travis on this one, Andy. And I've actually experienced this very issue first hand. It's not that "a couple film composers are crowding out the market", it's that game devs are going to pass up "lesser name" composers who are just as capable so they can add a big name to help sell their product. I mean, I know I can't fault them for this, but that's exactly why I'm not particularly keen on the idea of having to compete with film composers. There are plenty of composers who are just as skilled as many film composers but at the end of the day, the devs are going to go for the bigger name if they can.

But, and I think you'll agree, this is only relevant with a very small subset of games in the industry. There are many many games being released every year and the vast majority are not the Hollywood blockbuster style that Hollywood composers would be shooting for. Hans Zimmer is not going to be competing for the chance at writing for an XBLA game for example, or Plants vs. Zombies, or a fighting game, or a racing game.

That's why I'm saying overcrowding from new composers is way more of a factor. At the very highest level, of course the thousands of new recruits out there are not going to be competing for Halo 4. But few games are at this level. Without naming names, I recently heard about a popular fan-based arrangement project whose staff has started scoring commercial games for Nintendo DS. This project was not received terribly well here and most would agree the people involved would not even be capable of passing the OCR bar. And yet, they're now competition in the handheld/casual game market. This is the real problem that 99.9% of video game composers have to worry about.

[big giant circles]

Well, to clarify, I wasn't disagreeing that new composers are the cause of overcrowding in the industry. In fact, looking back, I didn't mean to sound like I think big film composers are overcrowding it at all, or even really address that particular topic. I was merely saying why I didn't care for the fact that game devs are turning to well known film composers.

At any rate, carry on folks

[sephfire]

Dunno if anybody already mentioned this at The Escapist, but Gregson-Williams actually didn't compose the MGS theme. Tappy composed the track for the first MGS (and even he might not be the original composer).

Well yeah, but he sure as hell made it shine for that MGS3 theme.