Lava Caves / Burning Trail

[hewhoisiam]

Okay, I wanted to re visit my old attempt at this song, and finally finish something. This isn't that, this is the working towards finishing something, but it's a start. It started out one thing, then became something else, then changed again, and I added stuff. And went crazy.

I'm most interested in structure fixes/changes and to see how the track flows, but as always, any crits are welcome.

YT is not cooperating, so no sources. But it's Noirfair in the later Metroid games. The intro is from Lava Trail, which led to Burning Caves.

SOURCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNTBOnI1x2w

AND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiVcEXcDOVc

UPDATE: Changing this to mod review. Thanks

OLD VERSION REMOVED: SEE UPDATE IN THREAD

[No Escape]

WOW! A thread by my friend HeWhoIsIAm. Well I owe it to you my friend to post some good crit on your song (I didn't even know you composed like that) due to all the super crits you gave me. Thanks dude. Now for song time.

I will say that you didn't include a source link. I found it easily, but most people will just disregard your entire thread, so you should remedy that. So I noticed that your track was super bass heavy. Like, gangstas in a car bumping heavy on the bass. You should probably tone down everything below 180 Hz by about 3 Db or so, and that will give you more headroom as well so you can make a louder mix. I felt something weird at 0:48 that seemed like an intentional drum delay, but it struck me as more of a "I didn't play it quite in time" delay. I think you should lock it in tighter there. I like a lot of the sounds you're using overall, but that weird low synth just sounds not so good to me. I must say I'm a little sad that you arranged the drums because I would rather hear what you can bring to a mix, but I'll assume that you didn't have the right environment to mic up a kit and go live. In the end, I think you stayed true to the source, and you added enough to make it stand alone from the source as well, but I would love to hear a few more reviews from other people about your track before I pass any judgement (I too feel weird being the only one posted on a thread with no other inputs). Also, your track ends at 4:21, but you forgot to clip off the other 2 minutes of silence. Again, you should remedy that Hope that helps you out:razz:

[hewhoisiam]

Thanks for the crits, the bass is a hold over from when I was trying to make it a more dub step, drum n bass sort of track. I'll def check out 0:48 and see what's up there. If I remember right, there are a few places that I have 'good nuff' fills that I need to go over and polish.

I have a few weird low synths in there from when this was gonna be a dubstep-like mix, I made the cutoff filter bass in z3ta. It's the wub wub wub. Kinda a staple of the genre, but I might could take a look and smooth it out or something. There's very little mastering in the track so far, just some EQ.

Yeah, track is only about 4 mins >.> I have some sources and tracks in my DAW that are that length that I didn't delete before I exported, so 2 mins of silence to reflect on how EPIC the track was

I'd love to play me some drums for it, sadly dun have the equipment to mic em and they're far and away from the compy I'd need to move every time I wanted to record

Thanks again, I'll get somenfin done today when I get home from work

[hewhoisiam]

Stuff was done. Mostly in balance and EQ and stuff. Panning was added, a few parts balanced. I dropped the bass slightly.

I changed the sound of the wubwub slightly to add some volume control to the effect. The different speeds also now pan different places.

Length is now right? I think?

Yes, there's a place in this where one of my tracks is making a white noise that I don't like. It's the one that's doing the ambient sort of thing at the intro and at the end. I think I'm just going to have to bounce it to a track a few times and keep the bits that are good and not the white noise. Later. Doing that later.

AND THE END SCREWED UP?! FML! New end is the old end, no changes. I'll fix the annoying crap tomorrow (noise and end)

[hewhoisiam]

More stuff done. A part added where I wanted something different, more meat, more transition. I'm also changing this to mod review.

There are a few places where there is white noise in there. I'll export that track only later 2 or 3 times (it's an atmosphere thing) And splice them together to get rid of it.

EDIT: For some reason, this isn't sounding good in tindeck. What I uploaded doesn't have that stuttering issue

[DjMystix]

Hey man! Haven't seen you around for a long time (or maybe just because of different time zone).

It sounds awesome and would perfectly fit in the game itself. I like the transition to faster tempo and percussion stuff. The only thing bothering me is the kick and snare. Kick can use more punch and snare can be replaced with something with high reverb/delay to fit in the overall mood of the track, but that's my personal preference. Loving it otherwise.

[hewhoisiam]

I have a love hate relationship with the snare. I like the way the delay on it works in some places (Intro) but it doesn't scale with the tempo in others. (end) Sometimes it's playing half time, sometimes normal time XD I might see about adding another snare. I tried more or less to salvage this one instead of picking one I like with a bit more pop. Kick is much the same. Lots of EQ on it, but I dunno if I'm in love with it.

Thanks for the crits

[Gario]

I have been summoned from another thread to give you some revie... Aha! This track once again! Man, I remember this one from ages ago. Let's see how you approach it this time.

Very fun take. I'm going to go on a limb here and say that the synths are a bit vanilla, though. The lead is alright, though it's a bit too thin. I'll double the snare dry problem. Like you said, there are times where it works (kind of), but it isn't meshing with most of the track very well. As for the tempo increases, perhaps you can somehow set the snare up so that note cutoff cuts the sound off as well... Meh, something to try, anyway.

The arrangement is pretty good. I suggest playing around with the melody a little bit, though - it sounds a little on the conservative side, and varying the melody could give it some real life.

Production is nice. I likes it.

Yeah, it's pretty good, though I think there's still some work ahead of you. It's much better than your mix from 2009, though - always great to be able to see improvement like that.

[hewhoisiam]

I would have given you a proper PM... But you has been hording your PMs and the system won't let me send you one till you clear out that stuffed in box!

I used a different system to do the drum kit in this one (4 ov em, in fact) and ima have to prolly get it sorted out as far as the snare/kick goes. I set the delay 'to tempo' Which is great as long as you don't change it... Like I decided to do... Like 5 times.

I'll have to work out another snare part at the very least. Maybe play with the production somewhat. At 5 mins it's not really feeling that length cause of the time put into the intro and closing, so I might tweak them to a shorter version to expand the middle, there's such a thing as too much, which I dun wanna be. Though some epic songs on the FF7 lifestream track had long intros, which is kinda... addictive.

Thx for the advice. Anything on 'thickening' the lead? I more or less tweak a synth I like and add a few effects and reverb. (or start from a sine wave in synth 1, which is like ADHD crack) The idea 'thin' kinda... I don't translate that into 'OH THIN?! I CAN FIX THAT'

Thanks again fer yer responze to mah summonz

[hewhoisiam]

So, a quick bit or reading some mastering stuff and working to get this one closer to being done.

-I gave the snare some pop

-Changed the delay effect slightly

-Worked with the gate

-Gave the leads some reverb

-Fattened the bass a little bit

-Made an audio track of the ambience to take out the fuzz

Give it a listen and let me know what you think or if you can think of anything else.

[Rozovian]

Lotta metroid track here now.

Okay, you've got some piercing highs in the intro. Cool sound, but be careful with how loud you let it be. Don't make it hurt ppl's ears.

Some samples are really exposed, and could use a touch of reverb, eq, and maybe some layering to sound less raw. The snare is probably the worst offender, and you've got lots of sounds that don't need much, if any, further processing. On a related note, the kick has a bit too much lows, I hear the compression level moving when it hits, but there's not enough audible sound to make it work... so the lows are at fault.

It sounds a bit empty, tho. Lead, lows, and highs... you're missing mids. Also, when the lead comes in, the track kind'a settles on a certain energy level and doesn't move from there. A change in lead sound, some added rhythms or harmonies (arps might work), or something else would give that bit some variety.

I'm also not sure I like your thin, metallic reverb. Might be just a matter of taste, but it's worth mentioning.

All that said, this has some really cool sound design and a decent arrangement. Keep working on it, dude.

[Emunator]

The hell happened to my post? I just submitted a full-on mod review and the forums at my response Ugghh, here goes again...

You've got some really cool sounds in the intro here, especially those choirs. What sounds are you using? I want 'em The drum writing itself is pretty damn neat, but Rozo's right - your samples are super exposed and the snare particularly could stand to come down a little bit.

Once everything kicks in, you've still got a fantastic backing track working in your favor, but everything else is not holding my attention. I don't think you can get by with such sparse instrumentation on the judges panel, this is gonna need more writing and more sounds to fill things out.

That also leads into the issue of the arrangement itself being pretty conservative and in need of some personalization. The sounds that you're using are a decent enough expansion, but I don't really hear any original writing or countermelodies whatsoever in here. If you're looking to pass the panel, you're going to have to ramp up the arrangement level and get a little creative with your instrumentation.

That said, you've got a fantastic springboard to launch off of here... the skies the limit, you're working with some great sounds and I think you could do a lot with the pallet you've crafted for yourself Good luck dude!

[Rockos]

Nice mix man. But ...

I don't really like the drum in there. Seriously I hate IT. Sorry no offend. IT's just, the kick is very very low and the snare pretty sample and dry. Otherwise, drum pattern doesn't change mush a thing for me so it's oké.

I like the way you adapted your bass. Some sequencing. Your lead could use the same, sequencing and maybe more expanxion, melodies.

For the mid frequency, I don't find that it lacks. I've got the same problem as you. Everyone says that I have to fill the Mid frequency, but I don't like em much. I like low and hi ^^.

Anyway, changing this drum out to a less dry, and adapting the lead more to your taste and personalisation should help you up a bar.

[hewhoisiam]

Thanks for the crits. I actually hit up nutritious and hemophiliac yesterday for a few pointers, so I've got a lot on my plate.

The highs that everyone's not seeming to like are my bad. I did have them EQ'ed at the bus level when I was using a synth. I had to bounce it to an audio track to tweak it a bit because the synth is semi-random and it kept buzzing in ways I didn't like. When I finished that, I forgot to route it BACK to the bus, so it has no EQ on it

I'ma do a bit of reading on drum mixing. I have some ideas and one effect I really want to use, but the effect HATES working in midi, it's for audio mixing so I may have to bounce the whole snare track to an audio track to get a snare I like. Why is nothing ever simple?

I'll try to hammer out some original bits, I kinda know where I want some of it to go. I also want to work on that first transition (Nutritious and Hemophiliac were not impressed )

The mids were uh. Well this song started out as DnB/Dubstep kinda feel, which is usually weak in the mids, but I could put something in there to fill in the sound a touch. Right now I have a few airy sounding pads to cheat and make this sound more full than it is in a lot of places.

Changing this back into a WIP since it's not as close as I thought it'd be. When it's next mod review comes around it should be almost there, but feel free to keep poping in and checking on me (keeping me working when I'm not uh. working)

[hewhoisiam]

Worked with the drums somewhat. I'm hoping I understood what was said about the drum sounds and snare. So some balance work, some eq work. Took off the multiband compressor on the master. Added some reverb. Let me know. Still want to put some of the punch back on the bass drum. This was mostly a bit of snare work to see if it's going in the right direction.

Still on my to do list is to do some writing... as soon as I figure out what I want, that is

AND FIX THAT WHITE NOISE!

[No Escape]

Steve hit me up via e-mail or pm if you want my snare samples. They are a bit dated, but I have quite a few from an Alesis D4 drum module that I personally recoding into my DAW. I would be glad to send the individual samples to you if you think you are lacking in snare quality. I personally think your current snare has too much bite and not quite enough body. I suppose you could add some low mids, but if you want new samples, I'll provide.

[hewhoisiam]

Steve hit me up via e-mail or pm if you want my snare samples. They are a bit dated, but I have quite a few from an Alesis D4 drum module that I personally recoding into my DAW. I would be glad to send the individual samples to you if you think you are lacking in snare quality. I personally think your current snare has too much bite and not quite enough body. I suppose you could add some low mids, but if you want new samples, I'll provide.

Thanks for the offer. By the way, a good sample never dates!

Truth of the matter is, I have good samples. Just this time I used the drum sequencer and samples that came with Cakewalk. It's sessiondrummer. And the snare here is just awful. I really wanted to see if I could salvage it with effects, eq, and knowledge (I'd have not even known where to begin 6 months ago) And I did, and it sounds... uh. Better. But I'm going to just have to bite the bullet and use my good sequencer. I'll re write the drum part in it. Right now, this drum track has 9 effects on it, 5 on the snare alone. 4 are EQ to cut out some offending tones and buzzes. It's just. Meh. I wanted it to be good. I really did want sessiondrummer to be good. It's just... NOT

EDIT: I should say! With minimal work, it can sound like a good 'real acoustic' kit. It's just not good for the DnB or the electronic sound.

EDIT EDIT: I'll likely get some work done to this this weekend, on hold since then.

[hewhoisiam]

Did some layering with the drums, changed some samples. Subtle adjustments were made.

Got rid of that fuzz and fattened up my ambiance background thing. Still 3-4 places in the end I want to work out, but it's 90% done. One in the middle. Why is it never easy

Still nothing hitting me in the way of original writing on this. It uses a lot of pure transition when it raises in the melody and I haven't been able to get something I like (yet) But this update was focused mostly on fixing the drum sounds, and anything else that seemed thin or off.

I got no idea what I want to do to add mid ranges to this. I did want to steal an idea from bLiNd, but it absolutely does not work for this piece. Haven't played with the idea of an arp in this, not much experience with em. Got a good example of what yer talking about for me?

I may need to actually lower the level of the new snare. Bit too much punch in the areas where it's not in half time. I like that level in the half time tho. We'll see