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KingTiger

finished Sonic 3D Blast Vocal Remix "Ruined Puppet"

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This is a song I made for the SZRC. It's a mashup/remix of "Panic Puppet" from the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Sonic 3D Blast and "Rusty Ruin" from the Saturn version of Sonic 3D Blast. I wrote original lyrics for it, and I rapped and my friend Martha sang. It's a bit different from the SZRC version in that it now has Martha singing on it, whereas in the SZRC version she didn't have the chance to add her voice so I heavily vocoded my sick, off-pitch voice. This new version is much better :)

Anyway, I'm not sure if this is or can be OCR caliber/style, but here it is anyway.

http://stuff.kingtigermusic.com/music/remixes/Ruined%20Puppet%20Martha%20Vox.mp3

EDIT: updated the guest vox with vocoder effect: http://stuff.kingtigermusic.com/music/remixes/Ruined%20Puppet%20Martha%20Vox%20Vocded.mp3

EDIT: newer version: http://stuff.kingtigermusic.com/music/remixes/Ruined%20Puppet%20Martha%20Vox%20vocode%202.mp3

EDIT: "final" version: http://stuff.kingtigermusic.com/music/remixes/Ruined%20Puppet%20FINAL.mp3

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Ya know when I first heard this song I thought it was a little goofy, but it's really grown on my throughout the week. The positive lyrics are a welcome surprise as well. It really reminds me of something too, but I just can't place it and it's been bugging me. Were you influenced by any band/song in particular when you made this?

Now for a few comments... yeah your friend's vocals on this definitely is an improvement. I like it. That first "lost" sounds a bit off-key at 0:47 (or could be the instruments). So does the note at 1:19-1:20. The word "the" at 2:21 sounds like it was cut short and should flow more into "world" a bit more too. I like her singing, but the clean, un-edited recording seems a little out of place with the rest of the electronic-heavy song. Maybe vocode or auto-tune her voice just a bit to give it some of that 'digital' feel. Not as much as you vocoded your voice in the original version, but just a bit to make it fit in with the overall feel of the song a bit more.

Not sure about OCR caliber, maybe with a bit more polish. The instrument that first enters at 0:12 sounds like some MIDI guitar. That could definitely be upgraded, but other than that I like the instrumentation choices, most of the synths and piano mesh together pretty well.

Nice job!

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I put an updated link in the first post, all I did was vocode Martha's vocals.

The instrument in the beginning is a clavier, not a guitar. Don't know what to say about it, other than that :/

This song isn't going to change anymore, I'll probably try to submit it but if it gets a "no" I'm still leaving it the way it is... I don't feel like working on it anymore.

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It's sounding good so far. I know you want to stop working on it, but I think you should anyway. Try again on a fresh day. I do think it can be improved. I'd advise you to strengthen and brighten up the snare. Layer on some high end.

Also, the instruments seem lo-fi in general. If you can, try replacing the instruments with "better" choices. i.e. The poly saw can have a slightly wider sound, similar to synth strings. The clavier (or I'll just call it a keys instrument) can have some more reverb and delay. I think you can do better.

Good luck!

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Hi King Tiger!

I'm listening your track right now. One of the better tracks in the sonic zone remix competition I think.

Well, I guess a wind instrument accompaniement somewhere will be funny, to add a little more variations.

And for the end, maybe you should extend it just a little more.

I looking forward on your progress and I'm impatient to see your track on Ocremix

Good luck !!

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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm glad you all are enjoying it. I think I will make some changes to some of the instrumental parts and then I'll submit it.

Have you all voted in the SZRC yet? You can download all the mixes from the main page here, and you can vote here (just make sure you vote on every pair of tracks otherwise none of your votes count!).

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I like the vocoded vocals a bit better, nice!

Have you all voted in the SZRC yet? You can download all the mixes from the main page here, and you can vote here (just make sure you vote on every pair of tracks otherwise none of your votes count!).

I see what you're doing there... and I approve! :mrgreen:

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man, this mix is so catchy and that chorus has been banging in my head since i heard it back in SZRC.

the mixing and arrangement is extremely clean and groovy, and i only have two (and a half, i guess) suggestions.

1) you should add a thicker clap sound/sample that plays on every other 4th beat kind of like this

2) it wouldn't be too bad to add a chorus or doubler effect to the main vocals during some of the verses just to add more grit to the rapping parts. you could also run the "i'm sorry but i won't be a puppet" parts through a telephone-effect filter or something like that.

2.5)

hmm, i'm leaning more towards the original version from the SZRC because i liked how the vocals sounded during the chorus. the singer in the new version(s) has a nice voice and it's good that the clarity of the lyrics is getting out more, but (and this is probably just my own preference to vocal effects) i think you should increase the width of the vocoder part or at least put some more of that cool, weird effect from the original version on the vocals.

if you want you could send me an instrumental and an acapella version and i can mix the effects a little bit and record another vocoder part to show you what i mean, but i think you'll get the gist of what i'm saying.

sounds really good, and i have much more respect for it now after allowing the lyrics to fester in my head for a longer time.

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New link in the first post.

I doubled parts of the verses, did the telephone effect on the "puppet" parts, and added the clap on beat four.

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props dawg, i dunno about everybody else but i think the back groove is polished and executed so well that it's pretty much done.

however, i'm still not fully sold on the vocals part. i don't want to continue suggesting so many things that in the end it becomes my song and not yours, so feel free to take my thoughts lightly and just go with what you're most comfortable/satisfied with. these are just a few suggestions that i feel would give that final "zing" to the entire mix.

in order of entrance:

0:12 use some variation on the panning of the vocals a bit here.

you could either have the main vocal move slightly and then have the delay shift back and forth to the hard left and right, or you can shift the entire vocal (both clean and delay) slightly about 30-40% with each lyric.

(ex., "yeah [yeah] to all you player haters out there" start shifting 25% to the right "[player haters out there]" shift to 35% right, "keep on hating" shift to 1% right "[keep on hating]" shift to 14% left "i'ma keep on playing" shift to 32% left, etc. etc.)

the main reason is that the delay kind of smooshes whatever sounds are underneath in during that part so it would be a bit good to have it pan around a little so nothing is being covered for too long (since delay smooshing is inevitable).

0:28 oh yes, i love the effect here man. however, it kind of seems hype-wise like the vocals should grow into the verse.

so from 0:28 you can keep it as it is ("i'm sorry that i won't be a puppet"), but at 0:36 you can have either another vocal track saying the lyrics (at the "i'm sorry that..." repeat) and have it start with a barely audible volume and then grow slowly into the verse, or you can automate a multi-voice effect to slowly build up the depth into the verse.

sorry if this is unclear, i'll try to find a link example after work tomorrow, but the main thing is to create a multi-voice effect so that it seems like from 0:28 through 0:46 a bunch of other voices are joining in to grow into a stronger unified chant. you could maybe even alter the pitch of some of the voices slightly (+/- a few semitones) to give it a crowd effect.

1:07 maaaaaan, i still like the original version of the chorus so much. the more i re-listen the more i like the new vocalist's sound, but the original just had a certain texture to it that made it catchier in my opinion. all i've got to say in regards to the choruses is just listen to this

!

dunno if you have to wet the modulation/flanger/phase/autotune/whatever on the vocals, but you should try to get that effect that you had on the original to the main vocals now. the vocoder sounds fine, and the singer's voice works very well, but i've already grown attached to that original version's old-school electronic sounding swag. :<

2:00 same as before. multi-voice slowly growing would be uber icing right here.

2:17 same as before, get that juicy saturation modulator effect back in the zone!

2:40 this is the only part that throws me off. i'll have to come back later because i still can't put my finger on it but it feels like there's only one tiny thing in here that needs to change... dunno, maybe a tiny cutoff/wah filter on the snare roll around 2:56 or something... it just doesn't feel like it leads back into the verse properly, like the build up isn't strong enough yet. hopefully someone else can chime in with a suggestion

3:07 ok, this is actually the one part where i think having her vocals stay as is would work well. this chorus seems to be that finale stinger, last emphasizing point in the song so the vocals should be clear here, but you should try fattening up the vocoder with chords here so it adds a nice thick, robotic choir harmony.

3:26 this time do the opposite of the other hooks. start with multi-voice and then die out with just the single whispering, telephone-effect voice.

i'm sorry for the short story-length post, and i'm sorry [that i won't be a puppet :wink:] if i'm starting to annoy you, but i'm digging this track and i feel like the vocal part is right about to climb over the last few hurdles to completing this thing.

feel free to pm me if you want to go back and forth on the vocal changes again. otherwise, peace, and i can't wait to hear how this turns out.

also, nice rhyme scheme. very good lyrics.

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Well, I finally did some more work on this mix, just in time for the end of SZRC. Sir Jordanius, I actually took all of your advice and tried to implement every single one of your ideas. I hope it sounds okay.

"Final" version

BTW, I hope you don't mind - because you contributed so much to the shaping of this track, I added "Produced by Sir Jordanius" in the comment field :)

Now to figure out what tracks to remix in the paper mario 64 album, if you guys will have me :)

EDIT: added "final" link to first post.

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Fun intro. :D

The instrumentation is a bit soft, but you're not putting a lot of force into your voice either, so they match. Your second voice (0:30) and many of your smaller insert voices are a too soft, they're hard to hear, while the main voice might be a bit too loud in the mix.

The rap works better than the singing, which has both performance and intonation issues. It can be masked with vocoders and other effects, but the performance still feels weak in the more heavily vocoded parts.

It's either repetitive and gets stuck in my head, or it's catchy and... gets stuck in my head. I'm leaning towards the latter. I'm having trouble hearing the sources. I'm not that familiar with Sonic sources besides the oft-remixed ones, so I'm gonna leave the question of source open to those more familiar with them. Where are you, other mods?

Structurally I don't really find any big problems with it. The last chorus could be superfluous, tho I could be biased by the aforementioned issues with the singing.

Hard to say if it's a good fit for ocr, but I don't think it's worth subbing just yet.

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I seem to come in right after Rozo in all the threads and pretty much end up piggy-backing on his comments. But what can you do if his comments are usually spot on?

I need to listen to the source tunes a few times to see how they connect with your mix to be able to comment on the arrangement. Gotta say that Rusty Ruins is an awesome source.

This mix is not far off overall. But still rough around the edges.

- Sir J hit it on the head, you need to do some layering of rap vocals here and there. Key is, they shouldn't be in unison (which I think what you have in some places now), generally you would either rap the same line again with a different intonation or pitch the backing part down a bit.

- Singing vocals don't work the way they are right now. You have some slight vocoding going on them, and then a synth completely overpowering them, so it is hard to discern the lyrics. If you want to keep them, and I think you should, just run them through a vocoder, or have clean vocals. But definitely take out that high pitched lead. It ruins the vocals. There is always autotune, don't be afraid to use it. They needs a lot of work - both from processing/EQ and performance sides.

- Rapping is not prefect. Rhymes are fine, flow is ok. Delivery is a little bland and lacking energy/intensity. If you inject a little more expressiveness and emotion into them, it will also improve the flow.

- Having listened a few times to the source tunes I can see that you are using them throughout the mix. I don't think there are any major issues with arrangement.

At a minimum, I would say try to work out the singing vocals issues and then post again here for some feedback.

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i suggest bringing the volume up on her actual voice, and lowing the volume on the vocoded synth. I'd like to see you make this part more ethereal and dreamy as it's kind of a chorus-y sounding part... so plop in a nice reverb or delay and see what you can do.

/thoughts :)

edit: oh and if you're gonna make them more present in the mix, then work that EQ and make her not sound so radio-ish

edit 2: the little drum roll fill at 2:56ish sounds a wee bit off, maybe a timing issue or something. it's just what my ears picked out

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