OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming

[DaMonz]

Smash Bros. wasn't made on the PC. You're not listening at all.

Find me a PC Game that is awkward to play on a keyboard and does not have controller support.

Why? Why the fuck do you want me to find such a game? We're talking about the good things of CONSOLE games. YES, I KNOW that computer games can be played on a computer, and I also know that some of them can be played with a controller. THANK YOU. I know that. But that's not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about the advantages of console games. In this discussion, I don't fucking care that SMB has controller support, it's okay, that's fine. But it's a COMPUTER game. This thread is about OUYA and console games, and having a CONSOLE at our disposal. And by us, I mean the indie devs that DREAM of making console games.

What I've been trying to say this whole damn time is, if ANY dev who doesn't have the means to publish a game on a "traditional" console wants to make a console game (with a super smash bros. feel or similar mechanics, for example), then HE'S SCREWED without something like OUYA. But with OUYA, he's not. That's all I'm saying. Dammit.

(It so happens that this is precisely my case with one of my projects - I've got this fine game in the works that just can't work on a keyboard)

[EC2151]

@TheDerrit's post:

That's why it's nice to work on my game programming side-hobby during my boring night-shift desk job! : D

[Nabeel Ansari]

Why? Why the fuck do you want me to find such a game? We're talking about the good things of CONSOLE games. YES, I KNOW that computer games can be played on a computer, and I also know that some of them can be played with a controller. THANK YOU. I know that. But that's not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about the advantages of console games. In this discussion, I don't fucking care that SMB has controller support, it's okay, that's fine. But it's a COMPUTER game. This thread is about OUYA and console games, and having a CONSOLE at our disposal. And by us, I mean the indie devs that DREAM of making console games.

What I've been trying to say this whole damn time is, if ANY dev who doesn't have the means to publish a game on a "traditional" console wants to make a console game (with a super smash bros. feel or similar mechanics, for example), then HE'S SCREWED without something like OUYA. But with OUYA, he's not. That's all I'm saying. Dammit.

Again, are you dense? Your "console advantages" were shot down. Go back and read.

If I have to spell it out, there is no advantage to consoles other than the price point. The controls are not an advantage, the hardware is not an advantage (both of which you believe are, and you're wrong).

And no, he's not "screwed" without Ouya. He can develop his game on a computer just fine and map it to a controller (or create a menu where you can map your own).

You don't seem to be getting the fact that controls are not exclusive to consoles.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Neblix

[DaMonz]

And no, he's not "screwed" without Ouya. He can develop his game on a computer just fine and map it to a controller (or create a menu where you can map your own).

You'd sell a computer game even though you can only play it with a controller? Seriously?

.... Seriously?

[Nabeel Ansari]

You'd sell a computer game even though you can only play it with a controller? Seriously?

.... Seriously?

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Fighter-IV-Pc/dp/B001CH2HBK/ref=sr_1_1_title_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1346976444&sr=1-1&keywords=street+fighter+4

http://www.amazon.com/Dirt-3-PC-DVD-Pc/dp/0700099867/ref=sr_1_3_title_0?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1346976457&sr=1-3&keywords=dirt+3

Using examples cited in the thread, of course.

[DaMonz]

http://www.amazon.com/Street-Fighter-IV-Pc/dp/B001CH2HBK/ref=sr_1_1_title_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1346976444&sr=1-1&keywords=street+fighter+4

http://www.amazon.com/Dirt-3-PC-DVD-Pc/dp/0700099867/ref=sr_1_3_title_0?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1346976457&sr=1-3&keywords=dirt+3

Using examples cited in the thread, of course.

FFS you're missing my point again. This isn't an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm outta here.

You want the ultimate truth about video games? The all-knowing Derrit and Neblix the Great got it all covered. You guys are right on all points, I'm wrong on all points, and this discussion is over. Glad we finally understood each other!

[Nabeel Ansari]

FFS you're missing my point again. This isn't an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm outta here.

You want the ultimate truth about video games? The all-knowing Derrit and Neblix the Great got it all covered. You guys are right on all points, I'm wrong on all points, and this discussion is over. Glad we finally understood each other!

You can't say "this is my point", then say "you're missing my point" after I say exactly why your point (word for word, might I add) is wrong. If you think it's right, defend it. Don't ignore an obvious argument to what you think. All you seem to be doing is refusing to respond to anything anyone brings up and saying "you're missing my point". I'm not missing your point; I said it was wrong, you didn't defend it, so I concluded it was wrong.

[ectogemia]

Don't ignore an obvious argument

The neblix national anthem.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Why? Why the fuck do you want me to find such a game? We're talking about the good things of CONSOLE games. YES, I KNOW that computer games can be played on a computer, and I also know that some of them can be played with a controller. THANK YOU. I know that. But that's not what we're talking about here.

Actually, it is. You're the one who initiated this discussion by responding to Derrit's statement of "as if putting out games on pc isn't good enough. which is a silly notion."

Don't yell at me for talking about computers vs. Ouya when you were doing it before I did.

We're talking about the advantages of console games. In this discussion, I don't fucking care that SMB has controller support, it's okay, that's fine. But it's a COMPUTER game. This thread is about OUYA and console games, and having a CONSOLE at our disposal. And by us, I mean the indie devs that DREAM of making console games.

Again, don't yell at me for talking about computers vs. Ouya when you were doing it before I did.

What I've been trying to say this whole damn time is, if ANY dev who doesn't have the means to publish a game on a "traditional" console wants to make a console game (with a super smash bros. feel or similar mechanics, for example), then HE'S SCREWED without something like OUYA. But with OUYA, he's not. That's all I'm saying. Dammit.

He's not screwed without Ouya.

He can make his game for PC and map it to a controller.

^ A statement which you respond to with "would you sell computer games that only work on controllers?", which I responded to with examples of real games on the computer that only "work" on controllers. Your response? "Fuck this thread, you guys are know it alls"

Edited September 7, 2012 by Neblix

[Crowbar Man]

Neblix:

Super Meat Boy on a keyboard?

Why would you do that to yourself?

Also, lots of games that "support controllers" including the ones you mentioned again only support one specific controller, the Xbox 360 controller. See my post about if you DON'T WANT TO USE a 360 controller.

Also, there are tons of indie games that just have "use xpadder/joy2key" in the readme for "controller support". I can go gather them up if you really want me to, but trust me, I've played plenty.

Wyn and Keep off the top of my head is a platformer that didn't have controlller support. Even has 2 player single screen co-op, using the same keyboard. Blah! I had to, as usual, fiddle with Xpadder to get 2 player controller support going. Much more fun that way IMO, but again, not everybody is going to take the time to do that.

Binding of Isaac literally says it in the options. "GamePad ?: Use JoyToKey", and the game plays way better as a dual stick game.

Older versions of Game Maker, a popular game creation tool, didn't have controller support, even after they added it it, some devs do not implement it for whatever reason.

Flash doesn't support controllers at all, and there are lots of Indies that use Flash to create their games. The original Meat Boy, Binding of Isaac, and VVVVVV just to name a few.

Neblix:

DirectX makes that problem completely vanish.

Not entirely sure where your point is going here, but just so you know DirectX is basically only for Microsoft's ecosystem, and I think its slightly different for each one of their platforms. OpenGL (which is only video) is far more cross platform, but even that has a different flavors for different types of devices. I don't know what your point is exactly, but acting like DirectX somehow solves all multiplatform problems is weird.

Neblix/DaMonz:

Like or not he does have a valid point that a lot of games these days do support controllers, even if it is usually just the 360 controller. Also, if you are oddball enough, you can technically play all kinds of games with a KB. I wouldn't call it fun but to each their own I guess.

However, just having a controller doesn't make something a console. There are even hassles associated with trying to get a controller to work on a PC (i've mentioned) which don't exist with consoles. Trying to get PC players to use a controller sometimes is its own obstacle (See Neblix playing Super Meat Boy with a KB for some bizarre reason)

Also have no clue where hes getting his "Theres no difference in developing for different hardware" info, but thats just wrong.

The Derrit / Neblix:

Why are we talking about high end games again?

Has nothing to do with indie development, generally indies stay away from high end because of cost.

For People Still Going On Console Vs PC:

Console Advantage:

1) NO technical skills required

2) Smaller size and generally more accepted near a TV

3) Ease of use, and No OS/Driver issues

4) No broken DRM systems

5) Far less expensive

6) Controller as a focused input instead of "maybe supported maybe not"

7) Some people have no interest in PCs/PC games and wont buy one, or buy games on one anyways.

I play games on my PC all the time. I also play tons of console games just the same. If you can't even understand the benefits of a console to begin with, then you aren't going to understand why someone would want an Ouya (or any console) or to develop on one.

There are so many software development jobs out there that I don't understand why anyone in today's environment who knows how to write games would waste their days writing low-quality indie games that have a 1 in 1000 chance of success.

Well, I don't know about each one of them, but maybe just because they wanted to? Again, there are plenty who make games without even charging for them. Also: Its hard to get a job period, so don't act like its so easy for everybody to just go out and get a job in any sort of software field.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Crowbar Man]

Now past the arguments:

OUYA NEWS:

Some of the developers behind the excellent Scott Pilgrim Versus the World : The Game have made their own indie studio (Tribute).

Tribute has made Wizorb and now have Kickstarted their second game :

Mercenary Kings!

The game is slated for Windows (Steam) first and then later Mac (Steam) and Ouya!

Art is by (bizarre) pixel artist, Paul Robertson!

It looks like Contra/Metal Slug style side scroll shooter mixed in with RPG elements and uh... Crafting!?

4 player local coop!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/322438897/mercenary-kings

Kickstarter is still going (has met goal though) for anybody interested

Edited September 7, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Dhsu]

If you can't even understand the benefits of a console to begin with, then you aren't going to understand why someone would want an Ouya (or any console) or to develop on one.

QFFT

I feel like we've run the entire gamut of GameFAQs wars at this point. Someone wanna bring up Cloud vs Link?

[Bahamut]

QFFT

I feel like we've run the entire gamut of GameFAQs wars at this point. Someone wanna bring up Cloud vs Link?

Link all the way

[Newt]

Link all the way

I dunno.. cloud haz bigger swordz

[Dhsu]

Pfff, noobs. Master Chief would slaughter them both with his hands tied behind his back.

[Bahamut]

Kirby will eat Master Chief for breakfast and say HAAAAAI!

[Dhsu]

Man I can feel my IQ dropping already...

Edit: I can't stop watching that dog tank GIF...

Edited September 7, 2012 by Dhsu

[Nabeel Ansari]

For People Still Going On Console Vs PC:

Console Advantage:

1) NO technical skills required

2) Smaller size and generally more accepted near a TV

3) Ease of use, and No OS/Driver issues

4) No broken DRM systems

5) Far less expensive

6) Controller as a focused input instead of "maybe supported maybe not"

7) Some people have no interest in PCs/PC games and wont buy one, or buy games on one anyways.

1) OMG COMPUTER HOW DO I TURN IT ON?!?!??!?!

2) I'll give you that, it takes more a more experienced computer guy to build a small form factor PC.

3) I'll give you that.

4) Definitely give you that.

5) That was what I was saying, the main attraction of consoles is $$$.

6) You could easily turn this around to say that this is a disadvantage to consoles, because there are games that also only work on a keyboard and mouse. FPS, RTS, etc. What I'm trying to say is PC can do both just fine, whereas console can only do controller dependent games. And if you're going to give me crap about playing SMB on a keyboard, then you're not really allowed to counter this with "people do play FPS with a controller".

7) Right, but what I am saying is that a developer is not "screwed" without Ouya. It's more than possible to develop a game on PC with Xbox 360 controller support (the "standard controller" for PC gaming). It may not reach the same market that Ouya does, but then again we're not even sure Ouya will even have much of a market.

I still stand by my original point, really the only advantage to consoles is market related.

More $$$ earned for devs because they reach a different audience, less $$$ for consumers to spend.

But I think the notion that there's some sort of developer's dream for making a game on a controller that can only be satisfied with Ouya is bull.

[The Derrit]

FFS you're missing my point again. This isn't an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm outta here.

You want the ultimate truth about video games? The all-knowing Derrit and Neblix the Great got it all covered. You guys are right on all points, I'm wrong on all points, and this discussion is over. Glad we finally understood each other!

it was never an intelligent discussion to begin with. when your best point was 'well if i plug in all these imaginary numbers for money that i just made up a few minutes ago, i think the ouya sounds like a pretty good deal,' you're not quite there.

your problem here was you, like the republican party, tried to make your opinion-based ideas on ouya and mouse and keyboard and other various things sound fact based. but they weren't. and we told you so. getting mad about it now isn't very constructive.

IF you had just said 'i want ouya to succeed, i think it will be good for developers,' THAT'S FINE. nobody's going to try and dress you down for that. but if you say 'ouya will succeed, and these (made up) statistics and opinions of [some people] are why,' then why should neblix or i not tell you what's up?

2) Smaller size and generally more accepted near a TV

3) Ease of use, and No OS/Driver issues

4) No broken DRM systems

5) Far less expensive

6) Controller as a focused input instead of "maybe supported maybe not"

7) Some people have no interest in PCs/PC games and wont buy one, or buy games on one anyways.

2) why is playing on a tv such a hot-button issue? i play my console games on my computer monitor anyways. tvs and computer monitors are kiiind of the same thing when you get down to potential usage.

3) consoles are indeed easier to turn on and play than computer games. but unless you're very computer illiterate it's not hard to figure out.

4) drm sucks for reals.

5) i disagree. if you don't have a computer to begin with, and you're only buying one for gaming, then yes it's probably less expensive to buy a console. that also means you're living in 2012 and not owning a computer. if that's the case, you have more important things to worry about than how you're going to get your video game fix.

6) i prefer mouse and keyboard, i suppose i should complain about having to play my console games on a controller? my point here is not that i should actually complain about that, but just like you say below... SOME PEOPLE don't share your opinion that games need to be on controllers all the time.

7) okay really? SOME PEOPLE have no interest in portable gaming. SOME PEOPLE have no interest in iOS/Android gaming. SOME PEOPLE have no interest in the indie scene, at all. i mean shit, SOME PEOPLE don't even like ice cream! long story short there is always a group of SOME PEOPLE that don't like a certain thing. SOME PEOPLE don't think ouya is a very good idea.

also, that wizorb game you posted is to me, the perfect example of why ouya's not a good idea. i looked at it, and it looks like a shitload of fun. but would i spend 100 dollars to buy an ouya to play it? FUCK NO. if i buy that game it would be through digital distribution on my computer, or off of xbox indie games. why does there need to be another place for me to buy this game if there's already convenient places for me to buy and play it without an upfront cost to buy a new console?

Kirby will eat Master Chief for breakfast and say HAAAAAI!

what if somebody ate kirby? what would kirby meat taste like????

Edited September 8, 2012 by The Derrit

[Dhsu]

why does there need to be another place for me to buy this game if there's already convenient places for me to buy and play it without an upfront cost to buy a new console?

The same reason you'd buy any console. Obviously no one except the most hardcore fanboy is going to buy a 360 or PS3 for a single game, but the expectation is that more stuff like Mercenary Kings is going to come out for Ouya and make the purchase worthwhile. Also notice that they haven't announced an Xbox release yet so currently Ouya is the only way to get it on console.

[Crowbar Man]

Neblix:

6) You could easily turn this around to say that this is a disadvantage to consoles, because there are games that also only work on a keyboard and mouse. FPS, RTS, etc. What I'm trying to say is PC can do both just fine, whereas console can only do controller dependent games. And if you're going to give me crap about playing SMB on a keyboard, then you're not really allowed to counter this with "people do play FPS with a controller".

RTS typically do not sell well and do not play well on consoles. This is a known issue, and nothing new. Ouya at least has a touchpad, and maybe they might include mouse support, but I don't see this changing for consoles. However, there aren't a ton of indie RTS games either.

FPS however, is extremely popular on consoles (Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Resistance, Killzone, etc). While I agree that Mouse & Keyboard is a superior option, there is nothing "uncomfortable" or "akward" about playing an FPS on a console. Its just not as fast/precise, but console-specific FPS games are generally tweaked that it doesn't matter as much.

7) Right, but what I am saying is that a developer is not "screwed" without Ouya. It's more than possible to develop a game on PC with Xbox 360 controller support (the "standard controller" for PC gaming). It may not reach the same market that Ouya does, but then again we're not even sure Ouya will even have much of a market.

I've never said anything about developers NEEDING Ouya over the PC (DaMonz said that, and went too far with that). I'm just saying Ouya is the only affordable console to develop on. Again, PC is not a console. No matter how much you try to argue it is, its not.

But yeah, Indie devs should definately make sure to support any platform they can spare time dev'ing for. More platforms = More sources of income = better, after all. Steam is a terrific place (though you aren't guaranteed to ever get there, even with Greenlight), along with Desura, Indievania, putting up on your own website, etc.

The Derrit:

2) Um, its one of the big focuses of consoles is playing on a TV, with a controller. Its one of the main selling points of Ouya. Yes you can play consoles on a monitor technically, but that doesn't make it the norm.

3) There are lots of computer illiterate people in the world.

5) Again, there are people who do not buy computers for gaming, or just do not want to game on a computer and/or play PC games.

6) Those people are pretty irrelevant, because those people would not really be interested in consoles at all.

7) Then they shouldn't buy one? Whats so hard to understand about that? Not everybody has to buy an Xbox 360 or PS3 or Wii, but some people did. I bought all 3. Not everybody does that. And I still game on my PC to boot. To each their own

also, that wizorb game you posted is to me, the perfect example of why ouya's not a good idea. i looked at it, and it looks like a shitload of fun. but would i spend 100 dollars to buy an ouya to play it? FUCK NO. if i buy that game it would be through digital distribution on my computer, or off of xbox indie games. why does there need to be another place for me to buy this game if there's already convenient places for me to buy and play it without an upfront cost to buy a new console?

Thats great for you? What about the people who wanted and bought the Ouya and want to buy the game on it? They shouldn't have that option because you don't want to buy it there? Are you suggesting there shouldn't be options other than the ones you want? There really isn't point here

Edited September 8, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

The question is sustainability.

What has Ouya done to market itself to the throngs of people that don't read gaming websites that A)don't already have 3 or 4 devices in their home that can do what Ouya can or B)are even interested in playing a game like Wizorb or other indie games in the first place? I haven't really seen what Ouya has done to build any sort of hype on mainstream channels. Is this thing going to be at Walmart? What's the message they'll send out that'll tell people they really need to get one? You guys are all talking about technical issues which in my mind as a salesman are virtually useless if I can't figure out how get this thing into as many peoples' hands as possible.

And Dhsu, the key to effective competition a la Sony vs Microsoft vs Nintendo is differentiation. While there are many multi-platform games and services, each company has a different approach to utilizing many of their services as well as a wide range of exclusive titles you can't get anywhere else. If Nintendo didn't pump out quality software like your Zeldas or your Marios, we wouldn't give 3 shits about 'em. If Microsoft didn't have an absolutely stellar online experience vs Sony's PSN, then we'd probably grab PS3s. That's competition through differentiation. The Ouya doesn't need the best hardware, but it needs stuff that is UNIQUELY Ouya, or else why would I buy one?

I know I'm sounding down on the system but personally I'd really like it to succeed because I believe it could shake up the industry, however unless a bunch of devs say "hot damn! we're movin' to Ouya" or some other huge deal happens, I don't see it breaking out of a very small niche of consumers, which would prevent said industry shake up from ever happening.

All this of course assuming it isn't a scam.

[The Derrit]

The same reason you'd buy any console. Obviously no one except the most hardcore fanboy is going to buy a 360 or PS3 for a single game, but the expectation is that more stuff like Mercenary Kings is going to come out for Ouya and make the purchase worthwhile. Also notice that they haven't announced an Xbox release yet so currently Ouya is the only way to get it on console.

your point is fair but meteo put out a succinct explanation that i agree with. so i'm just gonna leave that on him. and the wizorb main website has a big 'xbox indie games' logo on it, though it may be that their company just worked with xbox indie games in the past. i don't really know i didn't look too closely.

also, crowbar. note that, once again, i didn't say anything near what you imagined i said. i did NOT say wizorb's developer shouldn't release it on ouya if ouya ever comes out. what i DID say is that making a system and trying to hype it up by being like 'LOOK AT THIS HIGH PROFILE RELEASE WE'RE GETTING IN WIZORB! MOVIN ON UP' when it's already being released in like 4 other places isn't a great idea.

i love how you rebut all my points with generalizations and then for the last one you just say 'well that's an individual's choice, who are you to decide for them.' if you want to say 'i like playing games better on a console than pc' please do so. but saying it's better and then thinly veiling your opinions on why by using the words 'some people' isn't constructive.

Edited September 8, 2012 by The Derrit

[Crowbar Man]

Well, the only thing unique about Ouya at this current time is the concept. The promise of free/cheap software in mass, an easy gateway to Indie gaming for both consumer and dev, and the ability for devs to affordably update/release new content for their software easily. Consoles currently do not do any of this.

That unfortunately is all they have right now until they get some actual games that make it popular enough / unique against the other consoles.

Since they do not develop software themselves, they are completely at the whim of whoever develops for them at this time, which is why I mentioned its very important for them to appeal to devs/hobbyists alike. Without them the console has no chance, because software is key for any hardware

As far as "mainstream" attention and "Walmart", I don't think they will be able to do either of those unless they have a much larger capital than anybody knows about. Those can always come later, but for now I really only see this being marketed and shipped online.

The Derrit:

Firstly, my post was about Mercenary Kings. It has only been announced for PC/Ouya. You didn't even read my post, yet you are trying to form poor arguments.

I don't even see where you are getting your Wizorb information from, its not on the Wizorb website or on any of Ouya's information. SO why Wizorb is in the conversation I don't know. It isn't an Ouya game yet, but it could possibly be later I'm sure. When/if it does, why would it be bad for either consumer or the dev exactly?

Your only argument was you don't want people to have a choice to buy it on Ouya.

Uh, I don't think I'm the only one that likes to play games on a console. It is a pretty big industry overall if you didn't notice. This website your on? OCRemix? Mostly remixes of console game music past and present.

My opinion isn't important, I'm speaking in generalizations because I was talking about the general advantages and why people in GENERAL like consoles. You seem to have a hard time understanding anything but your own likes and can't see beyond that scope.

I play games on my PC all the time. Probably far more than my consoles, especially now that more and more multiplatform console games are on the PC too. I still play console games all the same. Maybe its a hard concept to grasp, but I like videogames.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Crowbar Man

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I think that if Namco makes good on their promise of developing(more like porting which is perfectly fine) games for Ouya and SE continues to expand their relationship with Ouya past Final Fantasy III(like bringing TWEWY to the system for example), and if they report stellar experiences with the platform, then maybe some momentum can be built. We'll just have to see what news comes out.