timaeus222 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'm working on an Electro/Jazz/Glitch/Chiptune CV remix, and this what I have so far: https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 Is there anything that really sticks out, or is it sounding fine so far? The arrangement is not done though; the only Heart of Fire I've included is the lead in at 0:34 - 0:38 (from 0:30 - 0:33 of Heart of Fire) and the famous Castlevania "Organ-style" line right after that (variation of 0:34 - 0:49 in Heart of Fire). I'm thinking of putting in the section at 0:08 - 0:33 from that source up next. Something to note: All FX and non-percussion other than the 3o3 arp in the breakdown section are custom patches I made in Zebra2. The percussion is generally TR-606, 808, 909 stuff, etc., if that has any meaning to you guys. In case this is necessary: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well, I can't help you on mix related things. But I can say that I like the arrangement so far. I like the variation you have on that intro melody. For some reason, I feel as though that part has a bit of an asian feel. The organ part from bloody tears fits in there well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I made a few somewhat minor changes to it. - Changed the 606 snare sample on the intro. - Refined the organ's levels on the "organ-style" sequence. - Edited the EQ on the 3o3 arp and 707 toms (yes, there were toms; I'm that subtle. ;D). - There are strings, but they were there for filler, really, just so the Heart of Fire section so far wouldn't feel so empty with just drums, a lead, and a bass. Now they're slightly louder. - Upped the volume on the 505 cowbells and 808 snare in the breakdown section. - Fixed the volumes on the saw arpeggios in the breakdown section. - Changed the funk snare sample that I use most often to a vinyl sample. Less high end, but more punch. - Minor edits to the vocoder modulation config. - Updated the transition to the VK climax repeat to make it more obvious as different. https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 After getting some feedback from a friend of mine, I lowered the high end on the snare just a bit and added a bit of low end. Then I notched the EQ of the bass right at the kick so it would be easier to hear the kick. I also raised the bass frequencies in the bass a bit and increased the volume of the 808 snare in the breakdown, because it was still too quiet in the V2. https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Overall, a good listen. Though I noticed a few issues. Issues: -the song just starts, not really much of an intro -there seems to be a timing issue at the 3 sec mark, not sure if that was intentional, but it just sounds off -I'm not a fan of the first lead, which plays through most of the song, the guitar sounding synth, it feels subdued, almost buried, perhaps too much reverb, it also gets to be grating -the bass is a bit overpowering at times, for example, at around 0:35, also at around 1:22, the temptation is to boost the bass, but it's easy to overdo it, which you have done here -the chiptune parts sound sporadic, they come in for a few seconds then disappear, which happens several times -as for the drums, the kick seems to get buried, I mostly hear the snare, and the timing of the hats sounds off, they don't really fit with the kick and snare, really noticeable in the first 15 seconds of the track -the song sounds muddy, too much going on I think, really pay attention to separating those frequencies, especially during the busy parts, they sound like they're bleeding into each other -also, needs to be longer -a better transition to Heart of Fire would be a good idea as well What I enjoy: -the backing synth that plays between 0:17 and 0:38, and later on -the organ was a nice choice -the 303 arp has a nice sound to it, though it could stand out more -the current arrangement is a nice variation on Vampire Killer I think this is a good start overall, but does need work. I hope my feedback helps! Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 Issues: -the song just starts, not really much of an intro -there seems to be a timing issue at the 3 sec mark, not sure if that was intentional, but it just sounds off -I'm not a fan of the first lead, which plays through most of the song, the guitar sounding synth, it feels subdued, almost buried, perhaps too much reverb, it also gets to be grating -the bass is a bit overpowering at times, for example, at around 0:35, also at around 1:22, the temptation is to boost the bass, but it's easy to overdo it, which you have done here -the chiptune parts sound sporadic, they come in for a few seconds then disappear, which happens several times -as for the drums, the kick seems to get buried, I mostly hear the snare, and the timing of the hats sounds off, they don't really fit with the kick and snare, really noticeable in the first 15 seconds of the track -the song sounds muddy, too much going on I think, really pay attention to separating those frequencies, especially during the busy parts, they sound like they're bleeding into each other -also, needs to be longer -a better transition to Heart of Fire would be a good idea as well What I enjoy: -the backing synth that plays between 0:17 and 0:38, and later on -the organ was a nice choice -the 303 arp has a nice sound to it, though it could stand out more -the current arrangement is a nice variation on Vampire Killer Actually, I thought it was a good intro. I made sure everything was somewhat band passed overall so that it felt a bit empty, leaving people to wait for more to happen. All the timings I have are completely intentional. The first lead is, by convention, supposed to be a large part of this genre. Read up on wikipedia's definition of Electro. For the bass, I spent hours on end perfecting that bass. I really don't see anything wrong with it, and I've actually remade it several times. As for the "muddiness" that you hear, I've actually gone through and refined the EQ at least 20 times, so I don't think it's muddiness. I already do know that each instrument has to and does have their own area in the spectrum. It's probably just not the overall timbre you expected. The saw arpeggios might fade out a bit too quickly, maybe, but those are intentional, and are definitely introduced about 10 seconds beforehand, so there shouldn't be any surprise. Of course this needs to be longer. I wasn't done making it, as I said in the first post. I also like my transition into Heart of Fire. Personally the chord progression I had there seems to be a good indication that a new section is coming. I will try to find a better kick sample, though. I can kind of hear the kick better now, but I have already known that I would need to find a better one later, or at least increase the volume on it later. I just haven't thoroughly tested my new vinyl kicks yet. The 3o3 arp actually wasn't intended to be a real backup synth, but more like a filler to give a breakdown type of feel. I couldn't just have a bass, a lead, harmony, and TR-808 drums and immediately call that good. Personally, I don't think I have very many problems with overlapping EQ at all. I've already established that to myself for several months now. I think it's just mainly the timbre of the sounds overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I'm not any sort of expert, so don't stake too much on my comments. They're just an opinion, someone with more experience (or not) may disagree. Actually, I thought it was a good intro. I made sure everything was somewhat band passed overall so that it felt a bit empty, leaving people to wait for more to happen. Hmm, it actually sounds fairly cluttered to me, for an intro. It doesn't feel like I'm being led into the song, it just starts abruptly, at least in my opinion. It doesn't take enough time build up. All the timings I have are completely intentional. To my ears, they sound awkward, and don't seem to fit. The first lead is, by convention, supposed to be a large part of this genre. Read up on wikipedia's definition of Electro. I realize that, I was merely saying I don't like it, again, just my opinion. For the bass, I spent hours on end perfecting that bass. I really don't see anything wrong with it, and I've actually remade it several times. As for the "muddiness" that you hear, I've actually gone through and refined the EQ at least 20 times, so I don't think it's muddiness. I already do know that each instrument has to and does have their own area in the spectrum. It's probably just not the overall timbre you expected. To my ears, things sound a bit muddy, but I could be wrong. The bass, to me, sounds too loud at some parts. Again, others may think differently than I. Of course this needs to be longer. I wasn't done making it, as I said in the first post. I know, but when I'm giving feedback, I tend to mention everything that comes to mind when I listen, even if it's an issue you already know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Okay, well, I thought about how it could still be muddy somehow, and I tried reducing the reverb on some instruments. I also refined the overall sequencing and EQ work some more. It seems cleaner now. There's also a new lead for the first half of the organ-style section. https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I LIKE THIS But LONGER PLEASE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I LIKE THIS But LONGER PLEASE I know, I said I wasn't done with it. I'm glad you're liking it so far, though. EDIT: Wow, I checked the waveform and compared it with the previous version... I really need to boost some instruments now that they have less reverb. It seems to be a bit too quiet or bare sometimes on the v2.6. I'll add back a small amount of reverb to actually give some presence. v2.7 is more similar to v2.5 than v2.6 in instrument volumes, but has less reverb and seems way less muddy. https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 I refined volumes, velocities, and EQ some more, and I got an even cleaner sound. Like I said, though, the arrangement itself isn't done. I do currently feel like I can continue with the arrangement on my free time, though. This first week of college is killing me. Dx Things to notice: - 1:12 sounds different now in the bass sequencing. More staccato. - Velocities are cleaner, so the things that should be heard are heard correctly. - Hi hat sample changed; the brushed open hi hat, not the hi hat paired with the kick. - Harmonies are taken back a bit at points where they are too loud. i.e. the breakdown section. - Lead in the intro is softer and crescendos. It also starts low passed and then the low pass is automated out. That way it is more of a band passed intro. - The organ-style section is fixed up a bit. The saw lead used in the first half is now 4 voices instead of 11, so it's less prone to excessive detune and is more clear. https://www.box.com/s/2ca7cd69192e4e8ccb43 - V2.8 https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Whoo, I finished the arrangement! Things to notice: - Polished the "bubbles" sound. - Notched the lead at certain spots in the EQ. - Made the 3o3 arp more noticeable. - There was a different bass pattern earlier at the 1:12 transition; I ended up swapping that to a later variation of that transition, so now the 0:17 and 1:12 sections generally have a legato bass line, and the 2:26 section has more of a staccato bass line. - 1:34 - 1:51 is definitely new and needs work. - 1:51 - 2:08 has a new lead. - 2:08 - 2:25 is the solo. - The 2:26 transition has some overtones to lead in to the final climax variation. - Then of course, the final climax leads to the ending. In the meantime, for V3, I've finished editing 1:34 - 1:51. I'm currently polishing the solo lead timbre, miscellaneous velocities, and the hi hats rhythm/humanization for the V3. https://www.box.com/s/37d1v1usjn1meiyrtf61 - V2.9 https://www.box.com/s/2ca7cd69192e4e8ccb43 - V2.8 https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 I finished the V3! Mod review time! The notes at 0:51 - 0:54 feel louder than they should be though. I think I missed some velocity edits there. In case any mod notices that, I've noticed it too. I'll automatically fix it in the next edit. Things to notice: - The solo has a custom finalized lead! It's based on Zebra2's HS Lafta Yoga. - Minor velocity tweaks here and there, making sure nothing sticks out. - Various EQ fixes. - Some compression edits, like on the kicks and snares. - The hi hats have a more natural rhythm and volume. The sample itself is also different. - The vocoded lead might sound different now because of the new EQ on the modulator. https://www.box.com/s/56z9dxmfxunrmikontgo - V3 https://www.box.com/s/37d1v1usjn1meiyrtf61 - V2.9 https://www.box.com/s/2ca7cd69192e4e8ccb43 - V2.8 https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukunetsu Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Hope it goes well... but wow, that's a whole lot of revisions XD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well, since mods are not really noticing this topic yet, I might as well first fix that levels issue I was talking about earlier, and other things I happen to notice. Edits: - Fixed the apparent organ level issue (although I couldn't find out why it happened; the notes looked fine to me). It might just have been a rendering error, I dunno. - Adjusted the lead's and bass' reverbs. - Did slight EQ work on the strings. - Improved the solo (made some legato parts more staccato to show off the vowel switch). - Slightly adjusted the timbre of kick and bass. - Improved the hiss on the decaying snares. Less hiss, more punch. - I put some compression on the breakdown percussion. - Other minor tweaks. https://www.box.com/s/9dd9bgudok0163c1jdbq - V3.1 https://www.box.com/s/56z9dxmfxunrmikontgo - V3 https://www.box.com/s/37d1v1usjn1meiyrtf61 - V2.9 https://www.box.com/s/2ca7cd69192e4e8ccb43 - V2.8 https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 PRODUCTION - Drums have no energy - possibly - Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) - feels like the low end could be a tad cleaner, and some foreground-background separation wouldn't hurt. Just don't overdo it. STRUCTURE - Too repetitive - parts feel like they repeat in the arrangement - Abrupt ending - It's not cut off, but it feels like there's a piece missing in between the ending three notes and the preceding bit First minute feels a bit aimless, but not terribly so. Drums feel really weak on my softer listening volume. It's not like the style calls for booming big drums, but they could be a little stronger, kick and snare at least. Actually, the whole track feels a little soft. On my higher listening volume, I find the drums to sound fine, but the rest of the instrumentation is a bit too loud by comparison. If you up the drums slightly, you should be all right. Might be worth looking through the instrumentation for ways to let the drums through a bit more, eq or sidechaining or something, just don't overdo it. There's some mid/high resonances that bother me in much of the track, dunno where exactly it is, but it's like it's an excessive eq boost somewhere in the mids/highs. Could be my ears, but you should know your eq well enough to find this yourself if it's not just in my head. Not sure how the simple sound design will fly on the panel, but it's a cohesive enough and clearly deliberate sound design for my liking. Could be a little more dynamic, softer parts be overall softer rather than just dropping out the occasional instrument, but I don't think it's a dealbreaker. I dunno Castlevania sources well enough to know which is which without looking them up, and I can't tell where one begins and where another ends but can clearly identify them being there. Cool. Might be a bit conservative in that a lot seems drawn straight from source, might be seen as a medley of source parts if it's to jarring to ppl that know the sources better, but I think it's in the clear. As for the arrangement, it works ok, but it feels a bit repetitive. The recurring parts aren't that different from each other, making this just repetition with variation rather than a distinct new appearance of a previously used part. I'd fix it by screwing with the dynamics of the preceding parts, and maybe the underlying chords, but how you solve it is up to you. At this point, I think I'd give it a resub. Lots of small issues, but no big red warning flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 PRODUCTION- Drums have no energy - possibly - Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) - feels like the low end could be a tad cleaner, and some foreground-background separation wouldn't hurt. Just don't overdo it. STRUCTURE - Too repetitive - parts feel like they repeat in the arrangement - Abrupt ending - It's not cut off, but it feels like there's a piece missing in between the ending three notes and the preceding bit First minute feels a bit aimless, but not terribly so. Drums feel really weak on my softer listening volume. It's not like the style calls for booming big drums, but they could be a little stronger, kick and snare at least. Actually, the whole track feels a little soft. On my higher listening volume, I find the drums to sound fine, but the rest of the instrumentation is a bit too loud by comparison. If you up the drums slightly, you should be all right. Might be worth looking through the instrumentation for ways to let the drums through a bit more, eq or sidechaining or something, just don't overdo it. There's some mid/high resonances that bother me in much of the track, dunno where exactly it is, but it's like it's an excessive eq boost somewhere in the mids/highs. Could be my ears, but you should know your eq well enough to find this yourself if it's not just in my head. Not sure how the simple sound design will fly on the panel, but it's a cohesive enough and clearly deliberate sound design for my liking. Could be a little more dynamic, softer parts be overall softer rather than just dropping out the occasional instrument, but I don't think it's a dealbreaker. I dunno Castlevania sources well enough to know which is which without looking them up, and I can't tell where one begins and where another ends but can clearly identify them being there. Cool. Might be a bit conservative in that a lot seems drawn straight from source, might be seen as a medley of source parts if it's to jarring to ppl that know the sources better, but I think it's in the clear. As for the arrangement, it works ok, but it feels a bit repetitive. The recurring parts aren't that different from each other, making this just repetition with variation rather than a distinct new appearance of a previously used part. I'd fix it by screwing with the dynamics of the preceding parts, and maybe the underlying chords, but how you solve it is up to you. At this point, I think I'd give it a resub. Lots of small issues, but no big red warning flags. I'm surprised that you think the drums aren't loud enough; I actually made sure the drums were heard the entire time, especially the snare. I suppose I could try layering the kick, but I've worked with the snare on this particular track wayyyy too many times, tbh. xD I'll probably do some mild sidechaining for the kick, as you suggested, then layer in a high end kick and lower the bass frequencies a bit. I was thinking about it earlier, but I wasn't totally up to it until now. I'll try boosting the snare a bit. I left some headroom on the mixer knob just in case. I also lowered the bass' bass frequencies a bit. As for the mid-highs resonance, I think I know what you're talking about. I have a slightly resonant PWM square-saw wave playing both some harmonies and some of the chiptune arpeggios, so that might be the thing to fix. I was kind of hearing that, but I didn't think much of it until now. I'll do the actual arrangement edits later, when I have more time. In the meantime, I believe I've fixed the other things. I'll put it up later. I got... *drumroll* college jazz ensemble tryouts. =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Drums are soft compared to the rest of the instrumentation. They sound strong enough on my louder listening volume (I have two that I use and know how stuff sounds on), but the rest of the sound get too loud then. I'd lower the rest rather than screw with the drums, tho soft layering and subtle sidechaining and other tricks can also be used. Just find the right balance between drums and the rest and it should be fine. To my ears, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Here is the updated version. New things done to the arrangement, stronger drums as compared to the rest of the instruments, and other miscellaneous edits. I do have a question: What do you mean by the fact that you have a "softer listening volume" and "louder listening volume"? Did you just pick two numbers to remember for your computer's master volume setting and use each while mixing? EDIT: I think the bass at 1:34 - 1:51 is too loud. Just something I thought I noticed. It's a different patch from what I used earlier, btw. https://www.box.com/s/eh9avztkmfx8vutdzjkx - V3.5 https://www.box.com/s/9dd9bgudok0163c1jdbq - V3.1 https://www.box.com/s/56z9dxmfxunrmikontgo - V3 https://www.box.com/s/37d1v1usjn1meiyrtf61 - V2.9 https://www.box.com/s/2ca7cd69192e4e8ccb43 - V2.8 https://www.box.com/s/3b0f7355c2e35291d612 - V2.7 https://www.box.com/s/4d5394ecc48204411b1a - V2.6 https://www.box.com/s/dcab54cace89d8bfbbbd - V2.5 https://www.box.com/s/8744fdd33600fecf3187 - V2 https://www.box.com/s/a292f4b302116d4bf027 - V1 (Bumped twice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 MOD REVIEW Alright, first thing I notice - it's just too heavily focused on the mid range of the EQ, and that's not going to fly. I don't think it's a specific instrument, as Rozo suspected, but a collective of all the instruments in the track. It feels like there's been both a low and high pass to the track; get some more highs and low end sound to this track by boosting some of the highs and lows of your samples, as appropriate, and perhaps lowering some of the mids, for the sake of balance. Ironically, it sounds like you DID have an intentional low/high pass in the beginning, which is cool - it just doesn't sound like it opens up after 0:08, like it should. Arrangement is still an issue - I'm hearing the repetition that Rozo pointed out earlier, and it does sound pretty conservative, save for the fact that splices two sources together. I won't go as far as to say it's jarring or medley-ish, however - you just need to be more daring with the material given. Break up the sources to it's components and see how you can mix and match them together, it'll help you make this your own. You'll need to make up for the repeated parts by adding new spins on the source anyway, as the track really won't be long enough otherwise, so invest some time experimenting with that. I take it you haven't gotten to it; you should probably reserve the Mod-Review for when you make every adjustment you're aware is needed. I won't stop giving critique on that account, but be aware of that prefix on your thread. I'd say that the drums still sound stale, but it MIGHT be the EQ issues that I was talking about earlier that's contributing to that. Some more TLC with the drum arrangement (perhaps some closed hat work?) would be nice, nonetheless. Hopefully my comments will help you out with this track. Best of luck on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.