Sonic "Green Hill Zone" (and guests) remix

[Skolar]

Please feel free to share thoughts or critiques. It's certainly not done yet.

-Remix on SoundCloud

-

And guest starring (in the form of a medleying solo that got way out of hand and was a lot of fun to make ) :

[Skolar]

Just bumping with an Updated Version On SoundCloud.

I changed a few select parts in the solo that were making me mentally frown at them, and made some other improvements to the piano and harp in preceding parts that I thought needed attention.

[DarkSim]

I love this source, and I also like the idea of an uplifting orchestral style with a piano lead, however I think your samples are letting you down. It seems like you've had to add a fair bit of reverb, especially to the piano and strings, and that's pushing it back in the mix and making it sound muddy.

I enjoyed the soloing even if the other sources weren't too clear to me, so I don't think the arrangement is too bad, just work on cleaning up some of the muddiness if you can, and maybe try varying some of the lead sounds during the solo - that clarinet(?) thing gets a bit old by the end, it'd be nice to have some interplay between 2 different instruments.

Good start, keep working on it

[Spi.der.men]

Awesome arrangement! that was cool how you managed to sneak all of those songs in the solo!I agree with Darksim though. Maybe put another instrument or two to help with the solo or else it sounds like it's going on for too long. Other than that I loved it!

[Skolar]

Great ideas, thank you!

The solo is a sax, but I'm not surprised it's hard to tell, I'm probably pushing it too high for the sample in some places. Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that was too much of one instrument. I will try changing it up a little, I agree some 2-instrument interplay would be a big benefit here. I'm excited to see how this one changes when I try that.

Oh yeah, the reverb is way too much, too... I'll take it back to headquarters and see what I can do.

Edit: Aha, I know what I'll do. Take down the reverb on the backing instruments and add some to the sax and whatever its friend will be... that'll help make up for the weak sax effect I'm stuck with right now.

[Skolar]

Alright, I think those were some good improvements! How's it sound now?

Version 3

I introduced the sax to an oboe and they seem to be getting along okay.

[Sansato]

This is pretty cool and I like it a lot.

[DarkSim]

Massive improvement with the Oboe interplay! I commented on Soundcloud about the kick sample - it seems out of place in the mix. Try something a little cleaner with a higher pitch to it - something "zappy" might work well. It sounds like you've got the hi-cut filter set too low at the moment and it's really muffled (probably intentional), but it doesn't work in the mix unless you open that filter up for the next section (when the chimes hit) really.

I also think you should work on the humanisation aspect of the sax and oboe now if you want a shot at passing the judges. The mix is good as it is, but it has to have that extra TLC if you want a shot at passing the panel! Maybe try asking in the recruitment section if a saxophonist wants to play some parts live? Might work!

[Skolar]

Massive improvement with the Oboe interplay! I commented on Soundcloud about the kick sample - it seems out of place in the mix. Try something a little cleaner with a higher pitch to it - something "zappy" might work well. It sounds like you've got the hi-cut filter set too low at the moment and it's really muffled (probably intentional), but it doesn't work in the mix unless you open that filter up for the next section (when the chimes hit) really.

I also think you should work on the humanisation aspect of the sax and oboe now if you want a shot at passing the judges. The mix is good as it is, but it has to have that extra TLC if you want a shot at passing the panel! Maybe try asking in the recruitment section if a saxophonist wants to play some parts live? Might work!

Thank you! I'm glad the changes are working, but I do agree the oboe and sax still warrant some serious attention, for sure.

That drum isn't jiving well with the rest of the mix, huh? Okay... I was keeping that tone real low because I tried a snare or something earlier on and it sounded out of place, so I guess I was avoided high sounds. I'll need to mess with it some more, see if I can lighten it up a little.

I hadn't thought of asking a saxophonist to collab. That would be extremely awesome.

[timaeus222]

Thank you! I'm glad the changes are working, but I do agree the oboe and sax still warrant some serious attention, for sure.

That drum isn't jiving well with the rest of the mix, huh? Okay... I was keeping that tone real low because I tried a snare or something earlier on and it sounded out of place, so I guess I was avoided high sounds. I'll need to mess with it some more, see if I can lighten it up a little.

I hadn't thought of asking a saxophonist to collab. That would be extremely awesome.

Before asking a saxophonist to collab, you should look into learning what sax VSTs can be modulated to sound sufficiently realistic, in case no one has time to collab. That could also improve your sound design skills and you could probably apply the concept of expression and realism with other instruments.

[Skolar]

Before asking a saxophonist to collab, you should look into learning what sax VSTs can be modulated to sound sufficiently realistic, in case no one has time to collab. That could also improve your sound design skills and you could probably apply the concept of expression and realism with other instruments.

Definitely.

Lately I've been -nearly exclusively- making stuff that's meant to sound like it's played by acoustic instruments (I actually like electronic stuff a whole lot, but I'm not very experienced with synths and such, yet). SO, since I don't play any instruments myself - Exactly like you said: I need to get better at making virtual instrumentation work right, and sound sufficiently realistic when it needs to. You sure can't beat having the real thing, but fake stuff can sound pretty awesome, too, and being as much of a newbie as I am, I have a ton of improving to do.

[Argle]

edit: I'm a bo tard, I just realized I made a list of criticism about your first draft version.

[Argle]

I'm still really cringing at that sax. It's a combination of an awful sample and not being very expressive. The long note at 3:00 is particularly grating. If nothing else get some vibrato going.

Shakers seem too loud, kick is too soft and muffled. I think you need some more percussive elements in there.

The solo violin is pretty fake sounding too. PM me and I can lay down a real part.

Arrangement on the whole feels like it stays at the same energy level for most of the song, not enough ebb and flow.

Green Hill Zone theme is always enjoyable, hope you can punch this one up.

[Skolar]

I'm still really cringing at that sax. It's a combination of an awful sample and not being very expressive. The long note at 3:00 is particularly grating. If nothing else get some vibrato going.

Shakers seem too loud, kick is too soft and muffled. I think you need some more percussive elements in there.

The solo violin is pretty fake sounding too. PM me and I can lay down a real part.

Arrangement on the whole feels like it stays at the same energy level for most of the song, not enough ebb and flow.

Green Hill Zone theme is always enjoyable, hope you can punch this one up.

I just listened to it again for the first time in a while. I'm hearing quite a few more problems than I was able to pick up on before, thanks to the critiquing and feedback everyone's been giving. Thank you very much, again, everybody.

Argle, you're right about the sax. I'm noticing that, coupled with the poor quality of the sound itself, and the unpolished/unskilled arranging, it sounds either boring or noticeably irritating in a handful of places. Sorry you guys had to listen to that silly thing. Not being expressive enough, that's a good way to put it... I think something like a saxophone - and especially the style I'm trying to get it to do here - takes a lot of work to make it sound right, if you're doing it digitally.

And yep... I was just listening right past it, before, but that shaker is way too loud.

You'd want to do that? You bet, thank you very much, live violin would be awesome! I'll make sure the sax sounds more respectable before I ask you to go to the trouble.

The energy level staying flat is one of the things I actually had in the back of my mind when I finished the first draft. I should get more creative with the backing instruments during the solo... That solo part was just something I tried out once I had the foundation of the source material, it's funny how it kind of became the whole point of the song.

It's coming along! Thanks for your time and feedback, everybody. I'll keep at it, I'm having fun. My next mission: Make the drums less wimpy, and make the sax sound like it may have come from an intelligent human being.

[metaphist]

...I'm noticing that, coupled with the poor quality of the sound itself, and the unpolished/unskilled arranging, it sounds either boring or noticeably irritating in a handful of places.

Seems like you already have a good handle on what you need to work on, so I'm not going to say much here. I just wanted to mention that humanization is probably your main problem in this mix as a whole. When you sequence your sax/oboe/piano, try to imagine a person playing it in real life. Like, actually picture it in your mind, the person sitting down at the piano and playing the song, and put yourself in their shoes (hands?), and try to actually "feel" how they would play it. Focus on the varying the timing of the notes and probably most importantly, varying the volume of each note.

The above exercise has always helped me sequence instruments better. Just remember that making a computer resemble a human requires a lot of TLC and attention to detail if you aren't playing live, but it's a skill that can be polished just like playing live can.

Hope that helps and happy mixing.

[Skolar]

Seems like you already have a good handle on what you need to work on, so I'm not going to say much here. I just wanted to mention that humanization is probably your main problem in this mix as a whole. When you sequence your sax/oboe/piano, try to imagine a person playing it in real life. Like, actually picture it in your mind, the person sitting down at the piano and playing the song, and put yourself in their shoes (hands?), and try to actually "feel" how they would play it. Focus on the varying the timing of the notes and probably most importantly, varying the volume of each note.

The above exercise has always helped me sequence instruments better. Just remember that making a computer resemble a human requires a lot of TLC and attention to detail if you aren't playing live, but it's a skill that can be polished just like playing live can.

Hope that helps and happy mixing.

Thank you very much, man, I think that will help. Making these types of things sound candid and organic takes huge amounts of TLC as I'm learning more and more. A wind instrument, and jazz, of all things?? Sometimes I wonder why I keep making myself try this stuff with a computer. It's worth it, though, 'cause I know it can be done, and it just takes practice.