Sonic the Hedgehog 3: Mashup Thing of Some Sorts or Something

[StickyGum32]

So, I'm a newbie and I happen to find the site via YouTube in searching for Sonic sound effects, and I figured "Eh, why not, I'll post it here and get some feedback." So here I am.

With that said, I'm essentially arranging different tracks from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and making it a big mix thing. Right now, it starts off with the Special Stage music and then we hit Angel Island Zone Act 1, and proceeding that is Ice Cap Zone Act 1, which I'm currently working on. But enough chat, let's hit the music.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic-test5

Only specific thing I'm looking for comments on is the sound effects from the game sprinkled in there. Keep 'em or ditch 'em?

- StickyGum32

[DarkeSword]

Way too loud. You need to turn down the volume on EVERYTHING.

[Pumpkin King]

^ Ditto. I'd say work a little with that and get correct volume levels, work with equalization on your tracks, etc. It doesn't need to be over-compressed.

I think the sound effects are cool to add... but they seem to be a bit louder at times and out of place to me. Probably some proper equalizing and editing volume levels could do the trick. Me personally... I wouldn't add the sound effects. But it's a cool tribute and lots of people would love it. So if you can make it work, by all means do it. I wouldn't over-do the effects though.

And the leads here and there could maybe use some echo effects to give it separation. And they can be a little loud at times. It was pretty loud for the Icecap Zone part. And the one before. The first track sounds a little better.

I love Sonic music, and like how you worked this out. Just maybe work a bit more on the mixing side and definitely concentrate on cool fills to go from one song to the next.

[timaeus222]

Yep, I agree. Try lowering the overall gain by, like, 5 dB. Seriously. You also need to not use a soft clipper.

Edited July 25, 2013 by timaeus222

[StickyGum32]

Thanks for the feedback! On this version, I've turned down the project as a whole about 6 dB, and I've ran back through the mixing of the instruments themselves. Sound effects were re-evaluated, and a bit of reverb on the leads (not too much though). So let's give this version a shot, and see what happens.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic

- StickyGum32

[timaeus222]

Okay, now it's more listenable. It's still too loud, but not to the extent where it's clipping and unbearable.

The next thing you should look at is a sense of dynamics. The song, even with soundcloud's sub-par waveform rendering, looks and sounds like the same atmosphere, energy, and feel the entire time. Think about how you want it to start, how it should progress, where you want to go at each particular moment as you write it, and how you want it to end in a satisfying way. In each section, there should be a distinct atmosphere that separates it from other sections to show that it indeed is supposed to be a different section. For example, you can have a high energy section followed by a breakdown section that slowly, but not too slowly, builds back up to high energy. High energy is great, but too much of a good thing can be bad, as you well know.

Afterwards, pacing is another good point of discussion. As you focus on dynamics and progression, you'll likely encounter issues with how long you linger on with any particular section. It doesn't make much of a difference how much you like it, because you wrote it, and you're usually biased towards your own work in a subjective way more than an objective way when you first start out. Here's where asking for community feedback really helps. They can help you develop a sense of when to move on to another section, how to connect them, and how to establish a good level of energy in each one to keep people's attention.

From there, you could work on either sound selection common sense or equalization common sense. Personally, I believe the sound selection is the more important route, as without good sound selection, EQ won't give you as good of a song as you can get with better sounds. Without good audio input, you can't get good audio output. EQ is easier to learn than sound selection common sense, but it's better to focus on sound selection and learn EQ along the way.

Edited July 25, 2013 by timaeus222

[StickyGum32]

The next thing you should look at is a sense of dynamics. The song, even with soundcloud's sub-par waveform rendering, looks and sounds like the same atmosphere, energy, and feel the entire time. Think about how you want it to start, how it should progress, where you want to go at each particular moment as you write it, and how you want it to end in a satisfying way. In each section, there should be a distinct atmosphere that separates it from other sections to show that it indeed is supposed to be a different section. For example, you can have a high energy section followed by a breakdown section that slowly, but not too slowly, builds back up to high energy. High energy is great, but too much of a good thing can be bad, as you well know.

Old video games aren't really known for being dynamically diverse, not to the extent that traditional music is. For now, I'm pretty satisfied with how it flows together, though I'm not yet sold on the end. Right now, the end is letting the background arpeggio echo its way out just like it does on the real game, but I'm not entirely sold on it yet. As for the energy and atmosphere, the reason these songs flow together is their energy (or at least the way I'm using them is due to their energy). Not quite sure what you mean by atmosphere. Are you talking instrumentation? Style? I'm a little lost on that one. Thanks for your input though!

-----------------------------------

Here is another version. I went back and did EQ on the project as a whole, and I think it worked out okay (might be a bit heavy on the bass, but we'll see). Let me know what's in your head.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic2

- StickyGum32

[timaeus222]

Old video games aren't really known for being dynamically diverse, not to the extent that traditional music is. For now, I'm pretty satisfied with how it flows together, though I'm not yet sold on the end. Right now, the end is letting the background arpeggio echo its way out just like it does on the real game, but I'm not entirely sold on it yet. As for the energy and atmosphere, the reason these songs flow together is their energy (or at least the way I'm using them is due to their energy). Not quite sure what you mean by atmosphere. Are you talking instrumentation? Style? I'm a little lost on that one. Thanks for your input though!

-----------------------------------

Here is another version. I went back and did EQ on the project as a whole, and I think it worked out okay (might be a bit heavy on the bass, but we'll see). Let me know what's in your head.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic2

- StickyGum32

That's true, but the concept of a remix usually brings in a sense of dynamics too. If you want someone to listen to something new without quitting in the middle of it, it's a good idea to aim for that as a goal. Atmosphere means a combination of instrumentation and style to create a type of feel that gives the listener an idea of how they should perceive the section. Is it high energy, is it a solo section, is it a bridge, is it an outtro?

Okay, I'd say the loudness just improved some more. Even soundcloud is letting up now. Now the main issue is the stereo image, though EQ is still another issue. If you listen at 0:00 - 0:05, it sounds like all parts of the drum kit are playing dead center, and it makes them step on top of the other instruments. It also sounds like a MIDI rip 100% of the way, note by note.

Good news is that I can hear all the significant instruments to a good enough extent to talk about them.

0:21 sounds like it should be a new section. For example, 0:22 could have three syncopated cymbals, panned right, then left, then right as a sort of break in the rhythm.

0:46 - 1:33 is the same as the beginning, so it's not worth going back to so soon. 1:33 ends up being an obvious shift to a new song. The lead at 2:03 - 2:18 has a little too much treble, so you should lower that.

When 2:35 comes, the marimba-esque instrument adds some muddiness to the song and things get harder to hear. 2:42 - 3:49 sounds like another repeat, so I skipped to 3:49. Another obvious shift to the next song.

The panning arp at 4:01 is too high pitched and resonant and hurts my ears. The drums are keeping a repetitive pattern which makes the pacing plod. 4:54 isn't a super obvious transition, but it's a new song again. The leads have way too much treble. Sudden ending.

[pw2374]

This is a pretty cool idea, a giant mashup. If you can pull it off it will be awesome

My only comment would be about considering a bit of a unique style\twist being applied on each zone music. I.e. start off with the music in a traditional sonic 3 style, and then take it in a unique direction - add your own take to make it a bit different and exciting and then return it back to the more classic sound before switching to the next one.

And don't be afraid about length! It's supposed to be long if it's going to be a mashup lol. The longer the better haha.

[StickyGum32]

Okay, I'd say the loudness just improved some more. Even soundcloud is letting up now. Now the main issue is the stereo image, though EQ is still another issue. If you listen at 0:00 - 0:05, it sounds like all parts of the drum kit are playing dead center, and it makes them step on top of the other instruments. It also sounds like a MIDI rip 100% of the way, note by note.

Good news is that I can hear all the significant instruments to a good enough extent to talk about them.

0:21 sounds like it should be a new section. For example, 0:22 could have three syncopated cymbals, panned right, then left, then right as a sort of break in the rhythm.

0:46 - 1:33 is the same as the beginning, so it's not worth going back to so soon. 1:33 ends up being an obvious shift to a new song. The lead at 2:03 - 2:18 has a little too much treble, so you should lower that.

When 2:35 comes, the marimba-esque instrument adds some muddiness to the song and things get harder to hear. 2:42 - 3:49 sounds like another repeat, so I skipped to 3:49. Another obvious shift to the next song.

The panning arp at 4:01 is too high pitched and resonant and hurts my ears. The drums are keeping a repetitive pattern which makes the pacing plod. 4:54 isn't a super obvious transition, but it's a new song again. The leads have way too much treble. Sudden ending.

The EQ of the leads has been resolved (had the panning arp on a really bright saw setting, so that was an easy fix). I did some sound browsing and found a brighter marimba, so hopefully that sounds better. Also, in the beginning I'm not using MIDI (I never use it to be honest), but I did lengthen those notes just a tad, and I think it sounds better, but we all know how far that carries, so yeah.

This is a pretty cool idea, a giant mashup. If you can pull it off it will be awesome

My only comment would be about considering a bit of a unique style\twist being applied on each zone music. I.e. start off with the music in a traditional sonic 3 style, and then take it in a unique direction - add your own take to make it a bit different and exciting and then return it back to the more classic sound before switching to the next one.

And don't be afraid about length! It's supposed to be long if it's going to be a mashup lol. The longer the better haha.

I don't think I stated this anywhere, but in general I want the mix to have a driving dance beat to it....however there was a change made in the Ice Cap part of the mix, so definitely check that part out. Not sure how long I want this mix though. Guess we'll see what happens.

-----------------------------------

Here's another run at it. As I mentioned up there, the Ice Cap part of the mix has had a bit of working done to it, so check that out, and the EQ has been fixed on most things (hoping I didn't forget anything). Marimba is brighter/clearer, and here we go.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic3

As for the end, I'm listening through the other songs from Sonic to see if I'm going to add them onto the end, or put them somewhere between existing sections, or if I'll use them at all. So the end as of now might not be the actual end. So yeah.

- StickyGum32

[DarkeSword]

The chord progression for Ice Cap Zone is wrong. At 3:56 you go up to an F instead of Eb.

[StickyGum32]

The chord progression for Ice Cap Zone is wrong. At 3:56 you go up to an F instead of Eb.

....so it does. Good catch. I had completely missed that. That scared me enough to go back and listen to the other tracks and make sure I have them right too, and the only thing I ended up changing from there was the arp on the Theme Music (after Ice Cap), so yeah. Thank for pointing that out.

With that said, here's the last version with corrected Ice Cap and Theme.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic4

- StickyGum32

[StickyGum32]

Okay, so it's been a while, but I feel like I'm getting closer which is awesome, and thank you guys for helping me out. Loving the second opinion stuff. (:

Now, for a special something, this mix has two new songs added in. They are Carnival Zone Act 1, and the theme for Major Boss battles. So yeah, that's cool.

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic5

Let me know what you're thinking down here.

- StickyGum32

[pw2374]

LOVING THIS

I hadn't realized you had thrown these two songs in. I just went to the link and incremented it to sonic5 (assuming you might have updated it) so I had a nice surprise lol.

It's sounding really good though.

Not sure how much more you plan to put in but I'd love to hear a take on Marble Garden.

Keep up the great work, I think this could end up as one of the top sonic 3 remixes on here

[StickyGum32]

Glad you like it, pw2374. Hopefully you'll like this one too. Now the mix (in order) is....

1. Special Stage

2. Angel Island Zone Act 1

3. Desert Palace

4. Azure Lake

5. Carnival Night Zone Act 1

6. Launch Base Zone Act 2

7. Ice Cap Zone Act ? (I forgot)

8. Major Bosses

9. Title Screen

It's also the longest installment yet, clocking in at just about 10 minutes. I don't want to go much longer, but I'll let the music decide when this mega-mix ends. I'm also thinking about doing a "light mix" that's maybe like 4-6 minutes, and then having the mega-mix which will be over ten. Speaking of the mega-mix....

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic6

Gimme your head feels.

- StickyGum32

[StickyGum32]

Okay, so I'm pretty content with calling this a final mix. What do you guys think? Anything I should look over before I call this one good?

https://soundcloud.com/stickygum32/sonic7

- StickyGum32

[timaeus222]

If you want to call this final, then here's what I have to say:

The sounds are pretty basic overall, without much modulation on the synths. The stereo image is a bit better than before, but the track itself wants to be too loud and the loudest instruments get pushed back, making the track too quiet.

The transitions are okay, but the sources, as I might imagine from your simply listing them for us, go completely in order without revisiting any sources after you've finished working with another source. As a result, it suffers from "medley-itis". i.e. It's just a song, then the next, then the next, until the list is fulfilled, and it makes for a very rigid structure. You may also have too many sources, considering how you forgot what one of them was called. If you want to write a medley, it needs to be more cohesive.

[StickyGum32]

If you want to call this final, then here's what I have to say:

The sounds are pretty basic overall, without much modulation on the synths. The stereo image is a bit better than before, but the track itself wants to be too loud and the loudest instruments get pushed back, making the track too quiet.

The transitions are okay, but the sources, as I might imagine from your simply listing them for us, go completely in order without revisiting any sources after you've finished working with another source. As a result, it suffers from "medley-itis". i.e. It's just a song, then the next, then the next, until the list is fulfilled, and it makes for a very rigid structure. You may also have too many sources, considering how you forgot what one of them was called. If you want to write a medley, it needs to be more cohesive.

It's a bit late to tell me I'm lacking a melody in a medley (even though medleys aren't really supposed to have a melody to them).

- StickyGum32

[pw2374]

Hi StickyGum,

I think you're right, this seems just the right length now and I think flows together really well. I like how you've tweaked the transitions a little.

I think it's come a long way since your first version.

Hopefully you've enjoyed creating it as much as I'm sure we've all enjoyed listening to it

[timaeus222]

It's a bit late to tell me I'm lacking a melody in a medley (even though medleys aren't really supposed to have a melody to them).

- StickyGum32

What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about a melody. I didn't even use the word melody.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

It's a bit late to tell me I'm lacking a melody in a medley (even though medleys aren't really supposed to have a melody to them).

- StickyGum32

Uhhhhh what?

[Garrett Williamson]

It's a bit late to tell me I'm lacking a melody in a medley (even though medleys aren't really supposed to have a melody to them).

- StickyGum32

he didn't say anything about that and also it's not too late to change anything

this isn't like the next Justin Timberlake album that would have to release tomorrow

and even then if there was a serious problem that needed fixing but they were forced to release the record 24 hours later, the producer of the record probably would've gone back and fixed it and paid a lot to get it fixed within 24 hours

you get what I'm saying

[StickyGum32]

I need to start with an apology. I could've sworn I read something about a melody, but clearly, I was very wrong.

Let me just try that response over again up here.

If you want to call this final, then here's what I have to say:

The sounds are pretty basic overall, without much modulation on the synths. The stereo image is a bit better than before, but the track itself wants to be too loud and the loudest instruments get pushed back, making the track too quiet.

The transitions are okay, but the sources, as I might imagine from your simply listing them for us, go completely in order without revisiting any sources after you've finished working with another source. As a result, it suffers from "medley-itis". i.e. It's just a song, then the next, then the next, until the list is fulfilled, and it makes for a very rigid structure. You may also have too many sources, considering how you forgot what one of them was called. If you want to write a medley, it needs to be more cohesive.

I need to start by saying that I have a slightly misleading title (how do I change that btw?). It says "mashup" but it really needs to say medley.

Now into the reply. I completely disagree with your diagnosis of "medley-itis". A medley isn't ever obligated to go back to any part of itself. Most medleys do end with a recap though, mostly because it's nothing new to the listner, and it wraps things up nicely. I don't think mine needs that recap. It ends with the theme song, the anthem of the game.

I also don't see what you're saying about the transitions. I've gone back to all of them and they all flow into the next section just like they need to. There really isn't a half-assed one in the bunch.

As for sources, I've made it pretty clear, if not before then definitely now, that this is what I'm calling a mega-mix. I can't just vamp on the same 4-5 songs for 11 minutes. That's way too redundant. I also don't want so many songs that the mix is too massive. That's also redundant. I think we're at a good spot right now with 9 songs in the mix.

My only other....well, complaint I guess, is directed to most of the comments on the thread (minus the ones pointing out my idiot moment). Each post points out the problems, but most of them don't suggest any solutions. I can remember two posts off the top of my head that actually did offer some advice, and it worked rather nicely. And yes, some things are incredibly easy to figure out what to change, but other things have way too many options, many of which aren't going to work. So advice is great to hear.

- StickyGum32

[Garrett Williamson]

they don't point out solutions because that's normally for you to do

you find the solution

you sound a bit whiny, honestly

chill out, your music doesn't suck

I really liked them dood

[timaeus222]

II need to start by saying that I have a slightly misleading title (how do I change that btw?). It says "mashup" but it really needs to say medley.

Press the Edit button and go into Advanced.

Now into the reply. I completely disagree with your diagnosis of "medley-itis". A medley isn't ever obligated to go back to any part of itself. Most medleys do end with a recap though, mostly because it's nothing new to the listner, and it wraps things up nicely. I don't think mine needs that recap. It ends with the theme song, the anthem of the game.

Basically, my feedback hinges on cohesiveness and OCR's standards. Last I recall, you intend to get feedback on this, so... yeah. Medleys can really be done in any way you want, but the standards here emphasize that simply going from one song to the next without careful integration leaves room for improvement.

I also don't see what you're saying about the transitions. I've gone back to all of them and they all flow into the next section just like they need to. There really isn't a half-assed one in the bunch.

They flow well in your mind, but sometimes when you listen to something for too long, you get something called "ear fatigue". Other people who share similar beliefs as the OCR judges would also mention the transitions. I wouldn't say they're "half-assed", but that's just because I want to be nice with my wording. I can say, though, that they can be polished some more, from an objective standpoint, so it's not immediately obvious that it's a shift to the next song.

As for sources, I've made it pretty clear, if not before then definitely now, that this is what I'm calling a mega-mix. I can't just vamp on the same 4-5 songs for 11 minutes. That's way too redundant. I also don't want so many songs that the mix is too massive. That's also redundant. I think we're at a good spot right now with 9 songs in the mix.

That's true, however there are mixes in existence out there that use very many sources in a cohesive way. How is that possible? Dunno, but check this out, it uses 11.

My only other....well, complaint I guess, is directed to most of the comments on the thread (minus the ones pointing out my idiot moment). Each post points out the problems, but most of them don't suggest any solutions. I can remember two posts off the top of my head that actually did offer some advice, and it worked rather nicely. And yes, some things are incredibly easy to figure out what to change, but other things have way too many options, many of which aren't going to work. So advice is great to hear.

- StickyGum32

It's great that you want to hear solutions, but without really knowing the behind-the-scenes of how you approached your mix, it's pretty difficult to give specific advice. We're trying our best! There are loads of approaches to particular aspects of production, just as there are many different solutions to many particular math problems. We can give you possible solutions though. Edited August 18, 2013 by timaeus222