EWQL or Garritan

[GSO]

EWQL or Garritan? do they both have good enough libraries to do video game OSTs? here's the problem with EWQL CCC 2: $800 minimum without ILok security key. tell me what you think!

also thinking about getting eduardo tarilonte's Era & Forest Kingdom libraries. tell me what you think!

Edited August 7, 2013 by GSO

[Chernabogue]

Never had any problem with EWQL, I would recommend this one.

[Dissidia]

If you're looking for an orchestral library you should also look into Spitfire Albion, Sonokinetic Da Capo and Kirk Hunter Ruby.

[Flexstyle]

I own both EWQL Platinum Plus and Garritan Personal Orchestra. In terms of sample quality and the amount of expression you can wring out with proper sequencing, EWQL wins hands down.

[Garpocalypse]

There really is no comparison. EWQLSO Gold has everything you could want in an orchestral library and it will serve you well for a long time. The only problem is if you are going to use it in other genre's. There is a small amount of reverb on all of the samples and many times i've had to scrap using EWQLSO in favor of a fake sounding library that I could use dry.

So it's a little inflexible that way but if you are going to do straight orchestral work or at least something where the orchestra is the featured part of the piece then EWQLSO all the way!

[dannthr]

I would never touch Garritan instruments or products and GPO is not even on my radar comparing to EWQL anything.

[theshaggyfreak]

I personally would recommend starting out with Vienna Symphonic Special Edition Volume 1. I also have EWQL Gold but I tend to use Vienna more often. It really depends on the sound you're going for, though. EWQL definitely has the Hollywood sound. Vienna's instruments are all dry which gives you some other options. If I could have just one, I'd probably go with Vienna but that's mostly because I truly dislike EWQL as a company.

[Meteo Xavier]

Why does everyone feel the need to recommend products outside the context of the question? I'm sure she asked between Garritan and EWQL for a reason.

Inside the context of the question - EWQL, in terms of quality, blows GPO out of the water. The problem is the weird PLAY system that people keep having trouble with and Soundonline's reputation for customer service, once you inevitably have a problem with it, is spotty at best.

I personally haven't found PLAY and their customer service to be the worst ***damn things on the planet like EVERY DAW enthusiast claims they are, but I have run into sizable problems with both, so there is truth there, and $795 for a Composer's Collection with problems is worth considering.

I've never used Garritan, but I've heard people do respectable things with it. If you're good at orchestrating, it almost doesn't matter what you use as long as the skill backs it up.

[Garpocalypse]

Why does everyone feel the need to recommend products outside the context of the question?

Inside the context of the question - EWQL, in terms of quality, blows GPO out of the water.

...isn't that what everyone was saying?

Shaggy only mentioned vienna strings because for alot of people including myself it's EWQLSO and a bunch of fake sounding alternatives. I didn't know know much about Vienna and I probably would have gone with them if I knew that you could use them dry. EWQLSO's reverbed samples are it's biggest flaw imo and it sounds like Vienna might have EW beat. I'm sure the OP is interested in knowing his alternatives before spending his money.

[Argle]

also thinking about getting eduardo tarilonte's Era & Forest Kingdom libraries. tell me what you think!

I own all the Eduardo Tarilonte libraries, and they are all excellent.

[Argle]

...isn't that what everyone was saying?

Shaggy only mentioned vienna strings because for alot of people including myself it's EWQLSO and a bunch of fake sounding alternatives. I didn't know know much about Vienna and I probably would have gone with them if I knew that you could use them dry. EWQLSO's reverbed samples are it's biggest flaw imo and it sounds like Vienna might have EW beat. I'm sure the OP is interested in knowing his alternatives before spending his money.

I own the Vienne SE woodwinds, and they are much more usable to me than the winds in EWQL which I never liked.

[Moseph]

I own the Vienne SE woodwinds, and they are much more usable to me than the winds in EWQL which I never liked.

The woodwinds are the best-sounding section in VSL SE, in my opinion. I struggle to get the strings and the brass to sound like I want them to, but the woodwinds sound good no matter what I do with them.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Moseph

[SonicThHedgog]

If you have a kick ass reverb (or know how to use a reverb well) and can work a eq, garritans could be a good contender.

but hands down eastwest in quality, samples, expression, etc.

I personally prefer the Vienna library

[Meteo Xavier]

...isn't that what everyone was saying?

I wanted to answer the question to provide some caution against PLAY's highly controversial program setup. My criticism was that people tend to specify product recommendations for a reason, but I keep seeing responses that try to direct to other products without much regard for what the OP wants, and its rarely helpful.

[Kanthos]

Why does everyone feel the need to recommend products outside the context of the question? I'm sure she asked between Garritan and EWQL for a reason.

Maybe you're different, but in my experience, most people would rather have the best answer, even if they asked the wrong question. I personally have run into situations where I'm asking for help on how to get some detail right in order to do solution x, when solution y is the better solution and I just didn't know about it. This happened a few times when I was trying to figure out how to best use my new keyboard in my live keyboard rig; comments like those you consider unhelpful showed me a better way of doing things, and the end result is better because I listened to what others had to say, even though they weren't answering the specific question I asked them.

The real question here, I'd assume, is "What samples do I need, based on my computing power and budget, to make video game OSTs"; unless there's some good reason (which, if there is, GSO hasn't told us) to ONLY focus on one of these two options, suggesting that someone explore a few other choices isn't a bad thing. If she REALLY has a good reason to only consider Garritan or EWQL, she can certainly tell us all what that is; until then, I and almost everyone else want to make sure she's not so focused on solution x that she misses the superior solution y.

That said, I'm going to point out some stuff I'm selling. I don't know enough to recommend any orchestral or sectional library in particular over any other, but depending on your budget (and I'm certainly willing to negotiate too), you could walk away with my NI account and get Komplete 8 Ultimate, Spitfire Albion & Percussion, LA Scoring Strings, and Project SAM Orchestral Brass, plus (or separately), I have the VSL SE Winds. The only real drawback would be what happens if you have a NI account with other products on it already, but we could probably make something work; I'd also consider trading my NI account for yours plus some cash if you have a (non-ultimate) version of Komplete, or even just Kontakt. If you're at all interested, let's talk; general opinion is that you can get higher-quality sounds by picking up the right selection of individual libraries than by going for an all-in-one orchestral package.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Kanthos

[Argle]

I wanted to answer the question to provide some caution against PLAY's highly controversial program setup. My criticism was that people tend to specify product recommendations for a reason, but I keep seeing responses that try to direct to other products without much regard for what the OP wants, and its rarely helpful.

Says you. Maybe, just maybe, people discussing the merits of other products will give the OP insight into the weaknesses of Garritan and EWQL that she was not aware of. But no, sorry people, Meteo Xavier commands us to stick exactly to the script. You vill not deviate from ze plan!

[theshaggyfreak]

Says you. Maybe, just maybe, people discussing the merits of other products will give the OP insight into the weaknesses of Garritan and EWQL that she was not aware of. But no, sorry people, Meteo Xavier commands us to stick exactly to the script. You vill not deviate from ze plan!

I agree. I generally don't hear a lot of positive things about Garritan's libraries. The only thing that it has going for it is the price. So, if that's something you have to worry about, it might be worth looking into.

As far as EWQL goes, PLAY is really not the best sample player but you're stuck with it if you use their orchestral library. EWQL is also known for having a fairly poor level of tech support. I can vouch for that personally. I don't plan on ever buying another library from them.

There are plenty of alternatives out there to these two companies and some of them have been listed. I think it'd a good idea to research them before you make a decision about what to buy.

[Garpocalypse]

Since this is still on topic, does anyone have garritan's world instrument collection?

http://www.garritan.com/products/world-instruments/

Is it any better, even marginally, than their other products? I really want to get EW's world instruments but that spans a few different libraries and would cost a small fortune to get.

I always thought play had a cool looking GUI but i've had so many problems with the player bugging out for no apparent reason that working with it has become extremely cumbersome once I load up a project. Usually I have to create a different project just for the instruments I want to use play for.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Garpocalypse

[GSO]

thanks for all the feedback, really. here are two things i'm looking for in new libraries:

less than 1k price tag

easy to use player(won't have to constantly email tech support)

so bottom line:

something similar to EWQL CCC WITHOUT crappy tech support.

here's what pisses me off about EWQL:

i'm here to make music, not spend 12 hours a day tweaking the internal functions of my PC.

tell me if there's a way I can have what I mentioned above not happen(I have windows 8 btw)

I read the system requirements and it seems like it would work but I dunno.

I've made costly mistakes before. I just don't want EWQL CCC to be one of 'em

[Argle]

Garritan kinda sucks.

EWQL can be good, not so much if you don't want the wet concert hall sound. Also, iLok, inefficient sample player, possibly shitty customer service. Definitely some serious issues to weigh. The big point in this one's favor is the concert hall ambiance, if that is important to you.

Philharmonik is old, but better than Garritan I think. No dongle, and if you wait 6 months tops you're almost guaranteed IK Multimedia will put it on sale.

Vienna SE is a dry sound, I definitely like the woodwinds. Brass might be kind of wimpy. You can buy it in pieces tho. E-licenser is slightly less annoying than iLok. Pretty much never on sale, so you can buy it whenever.

Kirk Hunter Diamond. Kontakt library, no dongle. Definitely a point in its favor. I'm a big fan of his Concert Brass and Concert Strings. No experience with this one though. May be worth a look? Website is kind of horrendous.

Spitfire Albion... no experience with it myself but it's a newer library. Not sure if it has the traditional setup though?

ProjectSAM Symphobia... uh, really expensive. Not sure it has a traditional setup, I think it relies more on group patches. Sounds pretty good tho.

And then there's Kontakt itself, comes with a moderate palette of orchestral stuff. No section woodwinds, and solo woodwinds lack vibrato. It's all derived from VSL though, so it's pretty decent. Could be an investment rather than your be all and end all orchestral solution.

Not aware of any other full orchestral packages in your price range. I'd give the demos of each a listen, weigh the opinions people have given.

[GSO]

also, in the kontakt line of things which is more bang for your buck? Komplete 9 or Komplete 9 ultimate?

and just for kicks n giggles, which composing software do y'all like best? Finale or Sibelius(I love Sibelius myself lol)

[Moseph]

Also worth mentioning is that if you're considering EWQL SO and have a budget of up to $1000, you can get EWQL's Complete Composer's Collection 2 for $800 which includes the Gold versions of all three EWQL Hollywood libraries (strings/brass/woodwinds), which are a lot newer than SO.

Also relevant: Play has been updated to version 4 (not sure if the update is generally available yet or not, but Stormdrum 3 shipped with it). Has anyone used it? Is it now better?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Moseph

[Kanthos]

Spitfire Albion... no experience with it myself but it's a newer library. Not sure if it has the traditional setup though?

Albion's sectional. There's articulations for high and low woodwinds and high and low strings etc. but not for violins or clarinets by themselves, let alone for one single clarinet. It's good for writing quickly, but limits your choices more than a library that lets you write individually for first and second flute, for example. It's a better library to compliment existing orchestral sample libraries.

also, in the kontakt line of things which is more bang for your buck? Komplete 9 or Komplete 9 ultimate?

Here are the differences. I'd go for K9 if I were you. You obviously want to write orchestral stuff, and neither K9 or K9U are going to do a great job of it. The main reason to get any version of Komplete is to get Kontakt and some of the other synths and sample libraries at a good bundled price. Scarbee Vintage Keys is fantastic for electric pianos, you get a selection of moderately good pianos plus Alicia's Keys, which is much better than the rest of them, there are some good drum kits, and so on.

If I were you, I'd save your money and not buy K9U. You're probably not going to use much more for basic orchestral work besides the Kontakt library's orchestral stuff (and that only if you have nothing better), and if orchestral is your focus right now, put the money into better orchestral libraries. The only real reason to consider K9U is if you're pretty sure you'll want a lot of the extra instruments: more drum kits, more electric basses, a few more effects, and a few good instruments for cinematic and scoring (Damage and the Evolve products). There's not much that'll help you with basic orchestral work, though. And, the more tools you have, the more options you have (good) and the longer it'll take to master what you own (bad); depending on your personality, not biting off more than you can chew might be the better idea. You can always upgrade to a later version of Komplete Ultimate too, when you're more experienced and can justify spending the money.

[mickomoo]

thanks for all the feedback, really. here are two things i'm looking for in new libraries:

less than 1k price tag

easy to use player(won't have to constantly email tech support)

so bottom line:

something similar to EWQL CCC WITHOUT crappy tech support.

here's what pisses me off about EWQL:

i'm here to make music, not spend 12 hours a day tweaking the internal functions of my PC.

tell me if there's a way I can have what I mentioned above not happen(I have windows 8 btw)

I read the system requirements and it seems like it would work but I dunno.

I've made costly mistakes before. I just don't want EWQL CCC to be one of 'em

EWQL has been plug and play for me, and I'm not the most musically minded nor conputer savvy person... I was just learning what a DAW was as I began using it. As far as tech support, honestly I imagine that's a problem you'd have with a lot of companies. This is a very niche market selling high end products often to studios who are willing to put a lot of money down. Now mind you, there's different degrees of unhepfulness and I'm sure EW is on the higher end of that spectrum.

I've had SO gold for literally a year to the day and these are my only two regrets. Default wetness prevents mixing the instruments well with anything other than other EW products. However someone in the originals board told me they cut the tail releases on their instruments and got a "shorted" less wet sound. So there's some (perhaps crude) workaround. Conversely buy platinum I believe the "close mic" samples are the best solution to the issue.

The other problem is the ilok. If it gets damaged it will prevent you from playing and you have to deal with PACE to work it out. It only set me back 4 days but if you have deadlines or something it might be a thing to care about.

edit: Bonus problem... you need ram, a good amount. I upgraded to 8 on my laptop and can run about 16-20 instruments ok-ish. If I start adding effects then it laggs (but still fuctions)

If you or anyone you know is a student look into EWs educational discounts. The cost of all items are literally halved. Also they have about 6-7 sells per year. I got Gold and Chiors for $500 last August and I now intend to use the educational discount to buy more stuff from them.

Garritan kinda sucks.

EWQL can be good, not so much if you don't want the wet concert hall sound. Also, iLok, inefficient sample player, possibly shitty customer service. Definitely some serious issues to weigh. The big point in this one's favor is the concert hall ambiance, if that is important to you.

Has anyone used the close mics in platinum? Does that get around the wetness...?

also, in the kontakt line of things which is more bang for your buck? Komplete 9 or Komplete 9 ultimate?

and just for kicks n giggles, which composing software do y'all like best? Finale or Sibelius(I love Sibelius myself lol)

Kontakt is the sampler that has the acoustic samples. The thing per se about NI isn't the default samples that NI packaged with komplete (they're not bad but...) Other 3rd party developers have vsts that you otherwise wouldn't have access too without kontakt, even EWQLSO started out making their product for the kontakt engine. And there are some good 3rd party orchestral stuff you can find for kontakt.

This is the thing I realize though. Apparently a lot of developers for orchestral stuff on kontakt sell by section and I'm realizing why. The quality seems to be "better" when you buy packages that focus on one particular instrument or section. Unfortunately doing things that way can eaially be a 1100+ set back. I'm also realizing maybe it wasn't necessary to get a higher end orchestral library. At least not until I perfectly mastered understanding every midi CC lol. I don't regret anything though.

If you have Sibelius you can actually purchase EWQL samples for the playback function. That way you get a better tone without having to invest in a DAW and all the other equipment needed to run vsts

Edited August 9, 2013 by mickomoo

[GallenWolf]

Since this is still on topic, does anyone have garritan's world instrument collection?

http://www.garritan.com/products/world-instruments/

Is it any better, even marginally, than their other products? I really want to get EW's world instruments but that spans a few different libraries and would cost a small fortune to get.

I always thought play had a cool looking GUI but i've had so many problems with the player bugging out for no apparent reason that working with it has become extremely cumbersome once I load up a project. Usually I have to create a different project just for the instruments I want to use play for.

I do have garritan world instruments, sadly some of the patches have a fair bit of noise in them. On the whole I found them quite lifeless, but this is comparing against libraries several times more in cost running in kontakt, engine etc.

I also have some of Eduardo's libraries (epic world, forest kingdom and others) and that's a good place to put money down for world instruments IMHO, among others. If you go over to vi-control.net, sometimes there are ppl selling these libs used.

Play works fine for me, but I don't use it as EWQLSO is not a good match for what I write atm.