Theowne Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hi, can someone quickly inform me of how a Midi controller is "semi-weighted"? How can something be half weighted? Would you all reccomend semi weighted controllers for music production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverCoat Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Would you all reccomend semi weighted controllers for music production? It depends! Some people like them non-weighted, I guess it's better for fingerdrumming but I usually mouse-sequence the drums I dunno about you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theowne Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.....But that's more about weighted controllers in general....I'm talking about this "semi-weighted" stuff.....which I don't know what it means.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If you're referring to piano keyboards, there is a huge difference (especially if you play piano). Fully weighted keys feel more like a real natural grand piano keyboard than semi-weighted keys, and semi-weighted keys are more natural than non-weighted (i.e. cheap Casio keyboards) keys. I don't know where to draw the line exactly, but it has to do with how hard you press down on the keys, and how quickly the keys bounce back up. It's really hard to explain unless you play the acoustic version of the instrument, but the only time I have heard "semi-weighted" is referring to piano keyboards; therefore you'd have to play the piano to really understand. If you play the piano, it is very easy to tell the difference between semi, fully, and non-weighted keys when you're actually playing it. For playing live, there is nothing comparible to fully-weighted keys (except maybe for an acoustic piano), but the keyboards tend to be much more expensive. Semi-weighted keys are good for people on a budget who want to play live piano. For drum sequencing, I would think the best thing would be to get an electronic drum kit, rather than using a keyboard (although I've seen some people play some pretty phat beats using a keyboard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 "Synth action" basically has no sort of resistance at all. It is not at all realistic in terms of comparison to piano action. Most smaller MIDI controllers are synth action. In regards to half weighted vs full weighted (or hammer action/graded hammer action) I wasn't quite sure of this myself so I decided to give Sweetwater a call. I was actually put on the line with a sales engineer who was an experienced pianist so I felt like I got someone who really knew what they were saying. Basically, he said that the difference between the two action types is somewhat hard to articulate, in that they both operate off the same concept; they add resistance to the (usually plastic, but sometimes ivory) keys in order to make it seem more like a real piano. Fully weighted keyboards are apparently just more like a real piano in terms of the way the respond to different "touches", the effort it takes to move the keys down, and the speed at which they come back up. Semi weighted is more of an approximation of that effect than an exact emulation. Edit: GLL beat me to it. Lemme build on what he said a bit. Chances are, it's true that full vs semi weighted is a distinction that you won't care about unless you're a piano player. Even the sales engineer I spoke with said that - fully weighted keyboards are designed for people who really want the feel of a piano. That's not relevant for someone who's not trying to use a keyboard for that. For $200 you can pick up a nice M-Audio or Studiologic semiweighted controller; the full weighted version would probably be $100 more or so. In regards to using a keyboard as a drum controller, hell, I did it at the NYC meetup. It feels natural to me. Hitting a bunch of different boxes is less intuitive, in my opinion - I've tried both. It's easy for me to remember "C is the bassdrum, E is the snare, F# is the closed hihat, G# is pedal hihat, A# is open hihat, and B is a high tom." It's not easy for me to remember "The 2nd pad from the left on the 2nd row from the top is a snare". All the pads look the same. I just have a hard time doing things that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 If you're a pianist and you want the best response for performance, I believe it was Roland or Yamaha who had incredible piano-action keyboards (but some of them getting as expensive as $8,000 or $9,000). In those cases, it may be more feasable to buy an acoustic grand piano (unless midi is a necessity). For acoustic pianos, the best most responsive piano I have ever played is a Schimmel baby grand. Those are probably the finest pianos in the world (and the sound is incredibly gorgeous). I have played on lots of different pianos, including Bosendorfer (which is priced about $30,000 to $40,000 higher than Schimmel yet does not match the sound quality nor the responsiveness of the keys). Anway, the list price for a Schimmel is around 40 to 50k, so most of the people on this site may never get to own one. However, they are simply wonderful to play. For something less obscure and still awesome quality (and usually lower priced) go with Steinway. Anway I don't think acoustic pianos have much to do with this topic. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theowne Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 I already have a (actual) piano, so I don't think realism is my main concern with a MIDI controller. I already knew about weighted keyboards, emulating a piano, etc. So does semi-weighted simply mean "heavier then a cheap MIDI keyboard, but lighter then a real piano"? If I work with many different virtual instruments, would it be better to go for no weight at all, or to even out and get a sem-weighted controller. P.S., Yes, I was looking at the 61 key M-Audio semi-weighted keyboard which prompted me to ask before I thought about buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 So does semi-weighted simply mean "heavier then a cheap MIDI keyboard, but lighter then a real piano"? If I work with many different virtual instruments, would it be better to go for no weight at all, or to even out and get a sem-weighted controller. Well, it's not necessarily that it's heavier or lighter than a real piano or MIDI keyboard. Semi-weighted just means it's "somewhat realistic" and fully-weighted means it's "very realistic", basically. There are pianos with very light actions and pianos with heavy actions. They respond different ways depending on how much pressure you apply to the key. Anyway, I think a safe bet would be semiweighted. Nonweighted (what I use right now) is OK but it's really not any good for any complex performances, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I prefer to use "synth action" keys for everything except piano. I don't know about the style of music you play, but my tastes gravitate towards alot of synths. Having used many of these popular hardware synths that I now own as VST instruments, I can say that the experiance is very close to the original feel, and I can't really play synths with full hammer action keys. So yeah, if you ask me it's easier to play piano on semi-weighted keyboard than it is to play a synth on a fully-weighted one. Many will disagree with me, but it all comes down to what you personally feel after playing both for a while. So go to Guitar Center early in the day and start wearing out the finish on them keys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Non-weighted keys (synth keys) are light, are usually made of plastic, and are spring-loaded. Semi-weighted keys are heavy and are spring-loaded. Weighted keys (or hammer-action keys) are heavy, and there is a mechanical mechanism set up such that you get the "clunk" when you depress the key. The clunk is a simulation of a hammer hitting a string on a piano. The hammer action requires a lot of space, so there are very few small, inexpensive boards out there with hammer action. Although there are some pretty good hammer-action keys out there on controllers and digital pianos, the real thing is much nicer. The weight allows you to play with more expression, since it's easier to press the keys such that you get different velocities when you can feel the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Even in synth action, there are differences; the keys of my Alesis Ion feel jumpy, while those of my AN1x depress a bit easier. Most older Rolands have a rather stiff action, which means more resistance when you push the keys down. I've also got a semi-weighted keyboard in my workstation. The difference is that its keys depress easier; it's like the AN1x in terms of actions but feels more "luxurious". It is still not like a piano at all but feels a bit more closer to the action. Another advantage of weighted keys is the mass; you can have much more momentum (e.g. quickly strike a key and let its own mass drive it down while your finger can be elsewhere). This does not work with synth action because of the low mass of the keys and the spring system. Ivory is not used anymore because it's pretty much outlawed; legal ivory would drive up the costs. The top of the white keys is ivorite (imitation material). Even that is expensive; $18 per key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 In terms of what keyboard you should buy, that really depends on how comfortable playing a particular keyboard. I recommend trying out a keyboard before you make a purchase. The more experience you are at playing a keyboard (piano especially), the pickier/choosier you usually are when choosing a good e-piano. GENERALLY, you get what you pay for, although this is not always the case. The comments I've read so far seem to make sense. However, a fully weighted keyboard usually does feel heavier when pressing down the keys as compared to semi-weighted keys. If you're not a trained pianist, a semi-weighted keyboard would probably be preferable to a fully weighted one (although I dont' recommend un-weighted to anyone because you don't have as much rhythmic control). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theowne Posted March 24, 2006 Author Share Posted March 24, 2006 After reading through posts here, I think I will go ahead and purchase the M-Audio 61-key semi-weighted controller. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 semi-weighted is more a marketing term than a technical one. it means whatever the manufacturers want to it mean. synth action, hammer action and everthing inbetween varies greatly. do not buy anything with until you've spent some time with it. i'm just repeating what's been said, but really: these terms are vague, don't rely on them. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzumebachi Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 analoq is right. go to your local guitar center and play around to find what suits you best. i personally prefer synth action. i've gotten quite used to it. also, being quite familiar with real pianos, "hammer action" keyboards feel like nails on chalkboard to me . or at least the Tritons and Motifs i've tried do. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasoner Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Couldn't you argue that weighted keys are good even for expressive synth pads and even stringed instruments. I get so pissed sometimes with my Radium 61 because of the utter difficulty it is to play certain instruments at the right velocities I'm shooting for. I'm actually considering the Axiom controller as well for the simple advantage of having a little "oomph" to the keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analoq Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 well try this: think about all those famous, classic synthesizers from the 70s and 80s. the Moogs, the ARPs, the Sequential Circuits, the Korgs, the Rolands, even the Hammonds. these synths were played more expressively than you could ever dream to. now think about how none of them had weighted keys. some didn't even have velocity sensitivity. expressiveness comes from you. the keys make little difference. all that said, you are the best judge of what allows you to be more expressive -- if a little oomph helps you get the expressiveness you're after, then don't waste time arguing about it. just do it. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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