Jump to content

La Gran Manantial De Salsa (Great Fairy Fountain, Zelda OoT)


MrKyle
 Share

Recommended Posts

So this went up through the JP and got mixed reviews, so I've revamped the worked considerably and now want to work on it alongside of any input the Workshop can offer.

The track is intended to be an island/salsa/easy listening jam. There are some elements of tango in there as well.

This is still rough of course. I feel like I have a solid foundation down. There will be acoustic guitar worked in as the final instrumentation is completed. Mixing has only been done to the extent of making things generally sit in the mix. Nothing creative yet. Nonetheless I thought, "It's ready for the workshop!" I'd love to get some feedback on direction, overall feel, and if anyone is diggin' the concept thus far. All criticism is totally welcome.

Source: Great Fairy Fountain (there are a few allusions to other tracks in there, but they are momentary at best)
Remix: WIP 1

 

------------------- Edit -------------------

 

F1 vs. F2 (WIP #6)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was off to such a great start, but then the dry lead piano came in too loud and messed it up. It's a difficult track to harmonize well, and it shows. There's small parts that work well, others that don't, and it'd take a long time for me to list them all. There's a few rhythm issues between delays and note timings might need some cleaning up, and the guitar that comes in near the end doesn't quite mesh with the overall sound.

I see you're aiming for ocr. The intro makes me believe you can do it. There's a few other really cool things in here, and the thing holding the track back is how you've used the source. The sound design of the source-playing lead, the very one-handed feel of that instrument, the harmonization; I find the source to be the biggest problem here. Sort out how you incorporate the source into the track, and you've got a really promising track here.

Digging the concept? You bet I am. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Rozovian for your thoughts and insight. I appreciate the specific critiques! This is still coming together, but I feel like the parts are nearly there. I'll get the delays squared during mixing and once the ac. guitar is actually recorded (just pieces of midi in there now; rhythm will play with the clave beat and accentuate the root while some lead work will add some peppy accents to the B sections) hopefully it will gel well with the overall tune.

Regarding your point about the usage of the source melody and the piano lead. I am ultimately going for something that is close to a montunos, but was trying to pull that off one-handed. I'll start building on it and writing out the rhythm hand to get that fuller spectrum piano texture. I think the turnarounds work pretty well and while you're right, it is tough to get the source to mesh well with that salsa rhythm of the usually-off-clave bass line and create the appropriate harmony, I feel like it's getting there. Salsa pianists tend to play more aggressively with a certain 'punch' to their key work (compared to other jazz or classical players who can generally be more dynamic) and I want to replicate that in this piano performance as well.

However, while it is supposed to be a more chill-vibed track, I definitely don't want to conjure up thoughts of elevator music! :shock: It's a fine line, but I am determined to make this work!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there, nice idea.

I dont mean to be rude. Is better "El gran manantial de Salsa" or just "Gran manantial de Salsa"

Now for the song, I like the idea, but I think the piano should be more important in the song, and the percussion (along with other instruments) sometimes sounds a little off tempo.Also theres something that is lacking on this song and is usually really important in this kind of genres: the bass, I think it it should be a really important part of the track.

Edited by gercr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Goomba, doh) Gercr!, thank ya!

I'll definitely be highlighting the piano more as the track develops. Also, the guitar will be in there soon (as soon as I can get a free day to record it!) There is a fully written and developed bass line, but it might be buried in the mix too much at this point. I'll remember to bring it out more once all instruments are there.

Right. There is a section ( second B, 2:44 - 3:18 ) where the rhythm changes to something more like, an acoustic breakbeat. I changed things up here intentionally to add variety. The tempo is gradually shifting over that time range. I know it is a bit of a strange feeling idea, but it is something I wanted to try. Is this the area you mentioned?

Edited by MrKyle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

haha, I am not goomba, Im Gercr.

and well, I think the tempo felt a little off, maybe because the percussion is too high on the mix.

the part I feel is more weird is 2:57. anyway thats just what I heard, I could be wrong. and indeed, the bassline is a little too buried for my taste, it should carry the song, not the other way around. you should try to mix leaving some space so that the bass can be more appreciated. (in the whole song not just little parts of it)

thats just my two cents, Im no expert in anything so is my just perception as a listener.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

haha, I am not goomba, Im Gercr.

That's what I get for replying at 6-something in the morning. Sorry!

Thank you again though. No, it's great to get the feedback. I truly appreciate it. I'll be on the guitars this week and then start a full mixing session. Hopefully a new WIP will be up soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Latest: WIP 2
 

Took a minute, but here is a new mix with the guitars added, slight composition changes, and some new changes to the dynamics.  I've done a bit with the outro as well.  The mixing work is more worked through, but not fully.  Let me know what you all think thus far.

 

Oh yeah, and the name has changed :)

 

Cheers.

 

MrKyle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Liking the intro here. Cool concept. When the piano comes in, I do hear a lack of variation in tone, since it doesn't really blend into the soundscape that well. The combination of instruments in the beginning makes me think it should be an ambient intro, so maybe that could be something interesting to try. The rigid piano sequencing is not nearly as noticeable as in WIP 1 though, so I think the sequencing has improved. However, it gets more noticeable at 0:46 with the blocky chord writing. I think you need a sample with more velocity layers, and more intentional reverb to make the lack of variation in tone less noticeable. The mechanical piano continues though later on and it's just everywhere in the ReMix, so this is a major point.

 

The chopped guitar at 2:29 - 2:33 really threw me off. I think that it wasn't necessary and was kinda distracting and unexpected, actually.

 

Looks like you took out the vocal clips and rock section. =P Well, to me it looks like there aren't as many transition issues as were pointed out by the judges.

 

The main things I would look into are just getting a better piano sample with more velocity layers, reworking the velocities to give a more realistic performance, and more importantly, make sure you have enough Fairy Fountain in here. The sounds you chose are pretty cohesive so far, so the concept works as far as I'm concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

WIP #3

Thanks Timaeus.  So I've made some mix improvements (EQing, comp, reverb, volume adjustments), adjusted the gating guitar section to be more fluid, and worked on the piano along with some stratification, a bit.

 

I'm not too worried about the source usage as that is throughout the composition save the intro/outro (which are still counterpunctual and matching in key).  Regarding the piano, I'm going for a staccato sound.  Street salsa performers especially can have a nice strong and quick attack to their playing and I'm hoping to at least give a tip-of-the-hat to that emphatic playing style.  I don't really want it to sound too classical.  The dynamic range should be open, but with big, strong key striking the note velocities are going to naturally be at more similar levels.  I am however trying to work with the mix of the piano as well as how its components and other instruments used as effect layers are fitting.  

 

Taking a step back (and a few days) and coming back for a listen, gives me a good feeling about the mix.

I'm also getting some feedback from salsa dancers, which had been pretty positive with other useful notes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Regarding the piano, I'm going for a staccato sound.  Street salsa performers especially can have a nice strong and quick attack to their playing and I'm hoping to at least give a tip-of-the-hat to that emphatic playing style.  I don't really want it to sound too classical.  The dynamic range should be open, but with big, strong key striking the note velocities are going to naturally be at more similar levels.  I am however trying to work with the mix of the piano as well as how its components and other instruments used as effect layers are fitting.  

Yeah, no problem. Even though you do want it to be staccato though, the timings won't be spot-on in real life; for example, if you play a chord quickly, there's a minimal amount of time where your hand is still on the piano before it's lifted, and so the leftmost edges of each note and the rightmost edges of each note won't line up perfectly. That means not every finger on your hand will hit the piano or leave the piano at the exact same time, and that's what makes it more human. Even if you offset the notes by the smallest offset amount that you can manage (even a few milliseconds), it helps.

 

While the notes for this style are probably going to be at similar velocities, sure, if the velocity response of your piano sample is low, the variation in tone that reflects the variation in velocity will be low as well, and vice versa. So, listen closely for the variation in tone, and try adjusting each individual velocity a bit to see how much and in what way the overall sound of the chord changes (slammed, medium, soft, or somewhere in the middle), as an experiment. Alternatively, you can also try changing the velocity response, if you have that kind of control in your VST or sample library.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Double bump? :)  I haven't made any changes to this recently as I think I've settled on something fairly solid.  I'm totally willing to put it back on the block though with the mod feedback.  Don't want to go into over-tweaking mode beforehand, as that is a cyclical and dangerous place to get caught in!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MOD REVIEW

Mmm, interesting style, and easy to hear what you were going for, source-wise. There were a few notes catching me off guard in the intro at first, but upon hearing the rest of the track & its style I can understand where they come from (the notes in question were the background tritone notes - they were throwing me off out of the context of the rest of the song).

The intro portion while neat, was fairly short on source. If I had one suggestion it would be to make the intro have slightly more to do with the source while retaining the sound it has.

Otherwise I'd say this one is in quite good shape. If you submit it now I'm pretty sure it would pass the panel. Nice work on it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record, I don't really "get" why the guitar is auto-panned left and right until about 1:39. Personally I find it a bit disorienting in a ReMix that seems otherwise in good shape! But no big deal; to me, if you lowered the effect's "mix level" (wet mix, basically) some, I think that would help. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...