First time to the forum- need help with mastering remix

[LindsayAnne]

Hello to anyone who reads this

I'm looking for some help to get my remix up to par for acceptance here. I composed an arrangement of my favorite Legend of Zelda theme, the Ballad of the Wind Fish. I submitted it to the panel and it was judged, but not accepted. I was asked to resubmit it, but it needs some help with mastering. The volume levels are low, and I cannot seem to raise them without getting distortion during the louder moments in the track. Also, some help with deciding what types of reverb to use would be helpful in adding realism to the piece. I am currently using Logic 9 to do all my work, so any help specific to that program would be super helpful.

Here's a link to the track: https://soundcloud.com/lindsayanne-pepper/ballad-of-the-wind-fish

I have made some changes since it was judged, but I know it still needs some help getting up to par. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much! ~LAPepper

Edited March 19, 2015 by LindsayAnne

[Skrypnyk]

Listened to your track, read over the judges review, and concluded that I am not the best person to be giving advice when it comes to realistic, or orchestral songs. But here it goes

The quickest fix if you want to get the mix louder is to throw a compressor or limiter on the master channel, and then just adjust the gain and threshold to bring up the softer sections enough to make them louder, while keeping an eye out that you aren't squashing the louder sections too much.

As for reverb, load a vst into the instruments you think need it (I'm guess the intro strings), load a setting and tweak accordingly. I don't think you need too much or to saturate whatever it is your putting it on, but add just enough to give more depth and character.

You have a fine mix, hopefully this is all you really need to do to get it to pass. Also hopefully someone else chimes in with advice or suggestions too in case I'm full of s

[timaeus222]

Yeah, it's definitely too quiet. I wouldn't do compression that is suitable for EDM (not that Skrypnyk suggested that), or even rock music for that matter, but rather, I would start by putting on a tolerant limiter and just raising the volume on the track. I know you said you seem to get distortion when you do that, but you never specified if you were using a limiter at all when you tried that. Try this limiter. (I can't try it out right now, but even if it doesn't sound right, it's still free) An important thing is to not compress it too much, so that's why I'm only suggesting that you do manual volume edits and not edits using compression.

However, the loudest parts only ought to be about 33% louder. The size of the large dynamic range this has can't be fixed by simply slapping a tolerant limiter on, and I would definitely not suggest using strong compression on it either. Overall, maybe boost by about 4 dB, but in addition, you need to raise the volume of the instruments in the quietest parts with volume or CC11 automation (if volume is too low, CC11 doesn't do much, and if so, raise the volume and check the result, adjusting CC11 as necessary), and lower them to how they are now during the louder parts so the louder parts don't get too loud. The quietest parts were said to be about -40 dB, and boosting by 4 dB won't really feel much different at that level (our perception of loudness is logarithmic). Those would need about 15~20 dB boosts to get to more conventional levels. A 20 dB dynamic range is about a good maximum case for orchestral tracks in my experience.

Then of course, the articulations are more exposed at those higher volumes, so you'd also need to rework your CC11 automation slopes. The louder it is, the more exposed the automation slopes are and the more issues you might hear. Check any parts where the strings (EDIT: or even brass, really, like Gario suggested) are disconnected in a legato context. I hear some parts where the string instrumentalist rebows, but it's not smooth and legato or slurred, but like new phrases were repeatedly started. So it's like a flautist breathing in between each note, but with violinists, violists, etc.

Reworking your reverb would also help your strings. I would try starting with about a 1.5 second decay time, about 20 ms predelay, a low cut near about 100 Hz, high cut near about 8000 Hz I suppose (you should experiment with this one), and a wet mix of about -7~-5 dB. Maybe you can go from there and see what else it needs. Keep in mind the amount of reverb your instruments already have due to the air on the mic mix choices (hall/stage/close).

Edited March 20, 2015 by timaeus222

[Gario]

Well, the concern that the panel has about this song mixing-wise is that in comparison to other tracks on this site there is too much dynamic variation. PERSONALLY I think that's a poor call (I personally would love to hear more dynamic variety in orchestral arrangements, as that fits very well stylistically), but at the same time I understand that it would make this track stick out like a sore thumb as far as in comparison to other tracks on here (even other orchestral tracks on here).

Overall it's about allowing the listeners to hear what's going on clearly without the need to turn the volume up or down during the mix. The dynamic range really shouldn't be too great (y'know, probably from loudest to quietest should only cover 5-10dbs), but by using the accompaniment (instruments dropping out, more static parts for the background instruments, etc.). It sounds like your arrangement already does this sort of thing to an extent, so I think you're alright, there.

I think Timaeus222 covered the humanization issues well enough, though I will cover that the idea of making legato notes sound smoother/less disconnected also applies to your brass, as it has a similar type of disconnect when it's exposed (like at the climax). Be careful with the brass and strings, and make sure that for phrases the samples sound more connected.

Nice to see you using the forums, and I hope we're able to help you out in getting this thing submitted

[timaeus222]

Oh yeah, also, I should mention why I suggested 15~20 dB boosts on the really quiet parts. I personally begin to have a hard time hearing things below -30 dB on my audio setup, and I actually have never mixed an orchestral track section under -20-something dB. So, I see that as a conventional minimum. I consider this being the maximum loudness I would listen to (in general, not just for EDM), for your comparison. For orchestral music though, I would recommend about 1~2dB quieter than that reference as the max peaking dB, and for your track in particular, probably around 1~3 dB quieter.

Edited March 20, 2015 by timaeus222

[Michael_Lochlann]

another thing you can do is use a clipper.

T-Racks Clipper is good or you can look for a free one on google. Software clipper VST

The clipper "clips" transients, rather than compressing the whole signal, so it can help you turn your mix up without affecting the sound too much.

here's what i do normally..now this is for rock stuff, not classical...

on the Master bus, in order from start to finish

-EQ rolling off below 30hz and above 20khz with lo pass and hi pass

-bus compressor with 4:1 compression, just barely compressing (like less than 1 db). this just handles the peaks a bit

-bus compressor with 4:1 compression, compressing about 2db (this compresses the whole track at its highest moments and "glues" the mixing together)

-clipper that barely clips, about 1db or less.

-limiter that limits 0-2 dbs

i'm no expert but that will get you up to the point where the meters start telling you you're in the danger zone for loudness, without hearing audible distortion or compressing (audible to n00b me anyway)

that will just increase your track's overall volume though, if an individual section is too quiet alter your MIDI dynamics or automate the master bus fader.

I like your arrangement btw. cool

[LindsayAnne]

Thank you so much for such detailed and specific suggestions!! You've all given me a lot to work with here. I am so glad I posted it for some suggestions! If you don't mind listening again, I'll post the changes once I've made them (along with what I did) and hopefully you can tell me if it works or not.

Thank you!!!

[Rozovian]

I would try some subtle multiband compression to up the levels without disrupting the dynamics much. After that, a limiter cutting the transients should be all you need to keep the track in line. Just be careful with the compression settings, try to maintain the same frequency balance, and don't overdo it.

I don't think you need to fret the reverb thing much. It's much easier to mess up the track with too much reverb than to find the perfect reverb to mask the articulation issues with. I'd be subtle with this too.

Focus on the articulations of the strings and brass. I'm not an orchestral remixer, so I can't say much to help you there. With that issue dealt with, the question of reverb becomes moot.

[APZX]

Timaeus gave a great bit of info on humanizing the various instruments. And honestly I'm not the person to ask about it, but those are things that I look for in a recording. Having said that I think the biggest issue with the articulations is really just an issue of having to remember what the instrument needs to be doing at any given point. My quick thoughts on that.

For reverb, I'd say use something like a cathedral type, impulse or digital in nature would not really matter, is probably your best bet. You'd be using it more that final layer of polish. I'd also suggest using only one channel and then actually try mixing the track as if it were fed straight into that reverb. Find where it sounds good and EQ off any offending spots probably some low end (100-300Hz) and some excess high end (8-10KHz) and probably a few spots in the midrange that may creep up. Really all you're using the reverb for is to add extra dimension, weight, and reality to the composition.

Now, for the volume. I'm going to say that other than the ending being just a bit too much of a drop I felt this was actually dynamically rather good. It built nicely and got plenty big sounding. However, the thing I think you're really missing is that an actual orchestral recording has the conductor and musicians themselves to balance it all out. This is where you're going to have to come in. You'll have to tame the various instruments in order to make it appear as if they're competing with one another. I would actually in general stay away from compressors & limiters initially and work on just using volume automation to bring the dynamic range of the track more in line. You really just have to decrease it by about 5-10dB and it would probably be just fine and honestly the ear probably would not have a problem with it. Another thing to keep in mind that a lot of the perceived volume of a track has to do with how the sound was played, not just how loud it is in the mix.

Other than that really pretty track.