Sony PS3

[Bahamut]

Edit: More PS3 lol - Sony needs to get its act together.

This has already been linked here (i.e. PLD), but to be fair this has little to do with Sony and more to do with how the retailers handled the situation and the short supply of PS3s available. Beyond that it's just monetary gain that leads people to do stuff like this.

Rich businessman pays poor Chinese men $200 to stand in line for a few days to buy a $600 system. Then sell said system on Yahoo Auction for $1200. There's a $400 profit just for one system, and multiply that buy X and you'll have people making decent coin off of this thing. Supply and demand issues will create this. Not saying Sony is not at all at fault here, but it seems they are producing systems as fast as they can.

But $18 million isn't just decent coin - that's an incredible amount! I think Sony should've delayed launch though - there's no reason why delaying the launch would have an adverse effect, considering that people would gulp it up anyway. This shortage is completely Sony's fault.

Think about it from Sony's perspective. They have a finished product ready to go, and a public who is clamoring to buy it. Production issues limit the amount of units they can produce by launch, so in order to help out the situation in Japan and the US they delay the European launch to many jeers, even though a worldwide release is very hard to accomplish for such a system. Would you sell all of your available units now, get people so hyped up about it they are willing to pay over $1000 for your system or let Nintendo and Microsoft eat up even more potential customers? Sony is just getting the machine out there. The kids who stood in line for days will surely be bringing all their friends over to play it. Those kids will want one too, and will buy it when the next shipment comes in. How is driving the demand for your system through the roof a bad move for Sony? Who cares if some people make money off of this? It's not like this wasn't the case with the PS2.

But also from this perspective, there are surely many buyers who might get pissed off that they payed so much for what is frankly so little (at least at launch). From a purely business perspective, it's dangerous business, especially since it appears that they won't be able to manufacture as much for launch as they did for the PS2 launch, and with this expanded market, it could backfire. They already alienate many consumers with many big incidents, and it partially shows in their huge losses & decreased profit - right now the company is on dangerous ground, and moves like this can only serve to possibly hasten their death.

You're telling me the people who managed to get a PS3 at launch are pissed off? If they are so disappointed, then they can easily sell the system on eBay for a large profit. And for those that buy the system in eBay, they obviously really want the system and have enough money to pay that much so I don't see why they would be pissed off. No one is forcing these people to buy the PS3. I really want the system myself, but does the fact that there are people out there right now who have it piss me off? No, because I wasn't willing to camp out all night or pay double the price to have it. Let the fanatics snap it up, and the rest of us who aren't children can deal with the fact that we might have to wait a few months to get the system. I've been waiting for the PS3 a long time now so a few more months isn't going to kill me, and with a lot of the great games out there right now there are plenty of things to keep myself busy with. Delaying the launch would just create the same situation, except at a later date.

They (the people who actually bought the console, not anyone else - lets not get sidetracked here) could get pissed off if the console isn't to expectations, and it surely can't be for that price unless they're incredibly rich, but I find it hard to believe that most of the buyers are that rich - my family is a part of the upper middle class and the ebay prices are still considered an extreme extravagence. I have met poor people who will buy whatever console they can at launch, no matter the price, but no such rich person, so I'm inclined to think this is the case. But such people are also probably a significant portion of Sony's game division income, and consequently their overall income (since their other divisions are almost all failing). If Sony thinks their risking consumer loyalty to get the console out quick enough is worth it, then ok, but if one wants to talk about a purely business perspective, there is a large chance that what they did was a misstep in almost every way possible.

[KWarp]

^ How are $50-$60 games overpriced? I'm sure you remember the day when SNES/Megadrive games were very expensive.

My impression was the price range for PS3 games was from $60-$100.

I got my copy of FFVI for $80 back in 1995 or whenever it came out. That's like $100 today. Did I enjoy the game any less?

FFVI was an exception to the $50 game standard. If every PS3 game is as good as FFVI, there's nothing to worry about.

[I-n-j-i-n]

To be a realist about it, let's face it. Sony has been crapping on consumers' heads since the Mini-disc and a slew of other electronic problems.

Their PSX and PS2 were their saving grace and it just seems that PS3 is really having the typical launch day hiccups, but to a bigger degree and more intense scrutiny since they are the game console company to beat.

So this is really nothing new. Though I think it's fairly obvious that Sony is shooting for the Japanese market that will pretty much be guaranteed to invest in a PS3 and the hardcore gamers at the moment. Wait until a few price drops until they can start appealing to the poorer of the lot.

[Evilhead]

^ How are $50-$60 games overpriced? I'm sure you remember the day when SNES/Megadrive games were very expensive.

My impression was the price range for PS3 games was from $60-$100.

You're impression was wrong. Sony has announced quite a while ago that there are going to be no first party games for more than $60. And we can assume third parties will follow suit as they always have. You can check the prices right now if you want. I'm sure plenty of sites have PS3 GAMES available.

They (the people who actually bought the console, not anyone else - lets not get sidetracked here) could get pissed off if the console isn't to expectations, and it surely can't be for that price unless they're incredibly rich,

So you're saying no gaming machine is worth $600, no matter how good it is? Tell that to all the PC gamers with $2000 gaming rigs. I'm no rich man, as I make about $35,000-$40,000 a year or so, but $600 isn't going to put me in the poor house. It's less than a week's pay for something I'll be using constantly for 5 or 6 years. That really boils down to a $100 a year, $8 a month or so. NOT that much money, sorry. Yes, it's expensive for a console, but it's extremely powerful and has a blu-ray player built in. If you don't think it's worth it, by all means don't buy it. But by assuming NO ONE will think it's a good value is crazy.

but I find it hard to believe that most of the buyers are that rich - my family is a part of the upper middle class and the ebay prices are still considered an extreme extravagence.

Agreed, they are extremely overpriced on eBay. I would never pay more than retail for ANY system, even old collectable ones. But for the young single IT who makes $150k a year and is a videogame nut, technophile, and has a badass home theatre... $1000 is nothing to have the hottest thing right away. I'd never buy a $1000 PS3, even if I had tons of extra money because I know I can just wait a few months and get it for regular price. But don't assume everyone is in the same situation as you. Obviously there are a lot of people willing to pay this much for the machine, so what's it to you?

I have met poor people who will buy whatever console they can at launch, no matter the price

These people are not poor.

If Sony thinks their risking consumer loyalty to get the console out quick enough is worth it, then ok, but if one wants to talk about a purely business perspective, there is a large chance that what they did was a misstep in almost every way possible.

You haven't made any kind of arguement whatsoever. You basically said, "THE PS3 IS OVERPRICED!!" Yes, I know people will be frustrated that they won't be able to get the PS3 right away, but they had a chance. If they lined up for pre-orders or go to Best Buy very early they could get one. For the others, they will get one when they can. How is not being able to get one right now because they are sold out vs. not being able to get one right now because the launch is delayed any different? People will be pissed either way. I don't think the people who have been waiting patiently for years for the PS3 will be so put off by having to wait a few months at most that they will swear never to buy one. If that was true the PS2 would have failed, as we were in the EXACT SAME SITUATION when it came out. You couldn't get a PS2 ANYWHERE for months, right during the Christmas season, there were rediculous eBay auctions, and it still became the #1 console. And if Sony keeps it's word we should be seeing a lot more consoles out there by the end of the year. They have the hottest thing out right now. Do you think they are sitting on their hands doing nothing? They are cranking out Blu-Ray drives as fast as possible. The rest of the parts are all built and ready. The Blu-Ray just caused a lot of problems but with time I'm sure manufacturing will pick up.

[sgx]

To be a realist about it, let's face it. Sony has been crapping on consumers' heads since the Mini-disc and a slew of other electronic problems.

Minidisc was awesome! stfu!

[I-n-j-i-n]

Yeah, awesome for a while. Then people realized how slowly it burned music compared to every new devices that did it much faster. But I hated burning anything onto discs five or six years ago. Always a pain. CDs, mini-dics, it doesn't matter.

[lazygecko]

^ How are $50-$60 games overpriced?

I would never, ever pay a penny more than $50 for a brand new game, and that's only if I'm sure it's damn good.

[Evilhead]

^ Be glad you don't live in Japan then. New PS2 games are often up to $70. $50-$60 really isn't that bad for a new game, especially since you will be able to get it used for $40 or so almost right away.

To be a realist about it, let's face it. Sony has been crapping on consumers' heads since the Mini-disc and a slew of other electronic problems.

Minidisc was awesome! stfu!

People still use minidiscs here in Japan. They are pretty great for recording music onto, at least before MP3 players became so good. Still with the 1 gig minidiscs you can put a LOT of CD quality music on one disc.

[Bigfoot]

The PS3 will probably see a price drop in April 2007 because of this

But I think they should have delayed the launch in Japan. 80,000 is embarassing.

[Bahamut]

If Sony thinks their risking consumer loyalty to get the console out quick enough is worth it, then ok, but if one wants to talk about a purely business perspective, there is a large chance that what they did was a misstep in almost every way possible.

You haven't made any kind of arguement whatsoever. You basically said, "THE PS3 IS OVERPRICED!!" Yes, I know people will be frustrated that they won't be able to get the PS3 right away, but they had a chance. If they lined up for pre-orders or go to Best Buy very early they could get one. For the others, they will get one when they can. How is not being able to get one right now because they are sold out vs. not being able to get one right now because the launch is delayed any different? People will be pissed either way. I don't think the people who have been waiting patiently for years for the PS3 will be so put off by having to wait a few months at most that they will swear never to buy one. If that was true the PS2 would have failed, as we were in the EXACT SAME SITUATION when it came out. You couldn't get a PS2 ANYWHERE for months, right during the Christmas season, there were rediculous eBay auctions, and it still became the #1 console. And if Sony keeps it's word we should be seeing a lot more consoles out there by the end of the year. They have the hottest thing out right now. Do you think they are sitting on their hands doing nothing? They are cranking out Blu-Ray drives as fast as possible. The rest of the parts are all built and ready. The Blu-Ray just caused a lot of problems but with time I'm sure manufacturing will pick up.

My argument was that the poorer people are the ones most likely to get hit hard by the disappointment - for an example, I have a friend who only makes like $20000 yearly and has a hard time making ends meet, yet he goes out of his way to buy every console/handheld at launch. What type of crap is that? These are the type of people Sony has here - fanatical gamers who don't care how much they're spending, and these are the people who Sony is bound to disappoint, and for a company poised on the edge like Sony is, that is everything right now, unlike at PS2 launch. They need every dollar they can get at this stage to survive to only possibly see blu-ray mature, and that doesn't even guarantee them survival.

[Evilhead]

If Sony thinks their risking consumer loyalty to get the console out quick enough is worth it, then ok, but if one wants to talk about a purely business perspective, there is a large chance that what they did was a misstep in almost every way possible.

You haven't made any kind of arguement whatsoever. You basically said, "THE PS3 IS OVERPRICED!!" Yes, I know people will be frustrated that they won't be able to get the PS3 right away, but they had a chance. If they lined up for pre-orders or go to Best Buy very early they could get one. For the others, they will get one when they can. How is not being able to get one right now because they are sold out vs. not being able to get one right now because the launch is delayed any different? People will be pissed either way. I don't think the people who have been waiting patiently for years for the PS3 will be so put off by having to wait a few months at most that they will swear never to buy one. If that was true the PS2 would have failed, as we were in the EXACT SAME SITUATION when it came out. You couldn't get a PS2 ANYWHERE for months, right during the Christmas season, there were rediculous eBay auctions, and it still became the #1 console. And if Sony keeps it's word we should be seeing a lot more consoles out there by the end of the year. They have the hottest thing out right now. Do you think they are sitting on their hands doing nothing? They are cranking out Blu-Ray drives as fast as possible. The rest of the parts are all built and ready. The Blu-Ray just caused a lot of problems but with time I'm sure manufacturing will pick up.

My argument was that the poorer people are the ones most likely to get hit hard by the disappointment - for an example, I have a friend who only makes like $20000 yearly and has a hard time making ends meet, yet he goes out of his way to buy every console/handheld at launch. What type of crap is that? These are the type of people Sony has here - fanatical gamers who don't care how much they're spending, and these are the people who Sony is bound to disappoint, and for a company poised on the edge like Sony is, that is everything right now, unlike at PS2 launch. They need every dollar they can get at this stage to survive to only possibly see blu-ray mature, and that doesn't even guarantee them survival.

Well, if you are having a hard time making ends meet, don't buy a $600 video game console. That's just called common sense. But I don't see how people are going to be dissapointed in the PS3, really, unless they aren't satisfied by the launch titles (which is just a temporary problem anyway). The graphics are blowing me away and there are tons of great games set to come out for it. Not to mention the HD capabilities, motion sensing controller, improved online services, built in hard drive, etc. If someone is really scrapped for cash, I'd recommend buying it after the first price drop. Then they can save some money and by the time that happens there should be a big library of games to choose from. Either that or buy a 360 instead since it's cheaper and already has a great library of games. Buying at launch is a luxury afforded to those with disposable incomes. If you buy a PS3 instead of paying your rent you just aren't using your brain.

[Bigfoot]

Wait, so you're excited about the motion sensing controller for the PS3, yet you call the Wii's controller a gimmick and what not.

And HD is great and all, but not everyone has an HD TV. That's a lot of money they have to dish out if they want to get the full potential out of the PS3.

And just incase people missed it from the last page.

The PS3 will probably see a price drop in April 2007 because of this

I wonder how long the lasers will last in the first gen PS3s.

[The Author]

I think you fail to see how much is ridding on this console here. Every console produced costs a lot of money to Sony. Every console that is not sold is a money pit. They need to sell enough consoles to produce more consoles so they can sell them at a loss again.

Their only way to make money is by selling games and BlueRay dvds. Their launch line-up lost 4 games recently. If people don't have enough money to buy multiple games, it drastically cuts the profit margin.

Normally, this would not be a problem, but the battery fiasco kinda put a dent in Sony's cushion.

A 95% deep dent.

And the blue ray is still a very abstract concept, where as HD-DVDs are already out and available. From a purely business perspective, Sony's moves will be very interesting.

[G_D]

There is a way to launch such a small number of units that could've avoided the huge mess in Kotaku's article. If Sony had simply doubled the price on the first shipment of PS3s, they would make more money, discourage scalping, and weed out a large number of people who would otherwise wait in line.

That being said, no console should ever launch with that few units. What happened at that store in Japan is exactly what I've been expecting to happen since we learned how few units were available.

[Evilhead]

There is a way to launch such a small number of units that could've avoided the huge mess in Kotaku's article. If Sony had simply doubled the price on the first shipment of PS3s, they would make more money, discourage scalping, and weed out a large number of people who would otherwise wait in line.

Yeah, and how much shit would Sony get if they pulled that off? It's a free market. Sony is selling the console at a loss, for much less than it's market value as seen by auctions. Yet people still say it's too expensive...

[Devyn]

It's only too expensive if you're poor like me. If you got the money, then it's no problem.

[The Author]

And during the auctions, no games will be sold.

If you assume 50% of the PS3 will end up on ebay ( a realistic number concidering how much money some people made with the PS2 and the fact that many people will try to imitate that ), it just means that their 500 000 units market will be at around 250 000 for the first 2 to 3 weeks. Assuming sony makes a net profit of around 10$ a game, and that everyone who buys a PS3 would buy 2 games, this would mean that instead of getting 10 000 000$ in profit it would be 5 000 000$. If they lose more than 10$ a console, they are still not close to cutting it. Assuming they lose about 100$ a console, the PS3 business caused a loss of 50 000 000$ witrhout concidering the marketing costs. And it would imply that to rentabilise consoles, everyone would have to buy 10 games / blue ray DVDs.

They do make another unaccounted profit on the blue ray production, but seeing as movies are not yet sold in blue ray format, I doubt this is a real factor.

[Avoli]

They do make another unaccounted profit on the blue ray production, but seeing as movies are not yet sold in blue ray format, I doubt this is a real factor.

Best Buy has been selling BR and HD DVDs for awhile now. And to be honest, I cant tell too much of a difference.

[sgx]

Yeah, awesome for a while. Then people realized how slowly it burned music compared to every new devices that did it much faster. But I hated burning anything onto discs five or six years ago. Always a pain. CDs, mini-dics, it doesn't matter.

Well, there were the ones that wrote at 1x (really they just recorded in realtime), but after that with the NetMD's, they wrote between 16x and 64x depending on the model. I could fill up the disc with 2.5 hours of music in about 15 minutes I think. And even the slow ones back then, they were still MUCH tinier than any CD player. Probably the first portable audio player people could fit in their pockets. Even once Ipods came out, back when it was still like $400 for the 10gb, the NetMD that could fit 2.5 or 5 hours on a $2 disc(depending on audio quality) was a great, much cheaper alternative. I think they were super cool. nyah!

UMD is cool too, for portable games. Putting the disc part in plastic casing is a great idea.

[Sir_NutS]

From what I read in an article at ign, the software ratio for the ps3 launch was below one game per console, this means that lots of this consoles are being bought for the sole purpose of being sold later at an auction site to gain profit out of it, which of course doesn't benefits sony at all.

But yeah, the ps3 is expensive for people who have a tight budget like some of us, in our case all that is left is to wait for price drops. This topic is, quite frankly, old and unnecesary. If you look at it this way, sony is practically giving away their product. A blu-ray player costs around 1000 dollars and they are giving you one plus a hard drive, controllers, and the most powerful console around for 600$ (that supports the highest output to date, 1080p). I can't afford it right now, and for me its too damn expensive but its because I look at it from the console perspective and for me, 600$ is too much for just a console. But if you look at it from the media center side of things, it doesn't looks that expensive.

Sony is betting a lot on the ps3, it's true, but there is still a lot of time left until we see if they were doing the right thing.

On another note, their arrogance is as charming and readily avaliable as always: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745506p1.html

[Bigfoot]

There is a way to launch such a small number of units that could've avoided the huge mess in Kotaku's article. If Sony had simply doubled the price on the first shipment of PS3s, they would make more money, discourage scalping, and weed out a large number of people who would otherwise wait in line.

Yeah, and how much shit would Sony get if they pulled that off? It's a free market. Sony is selling the console at a loss, for much less than it's market value as seen by auctions. Yet people still say it's too expensive...

It's expensive to people who just want to play games and could care less about blu-ray. The Xbox360 is giving you the option to get a seperate HD-DVD player add-on. Sony is forcing it on you by including it into the system, thus making it more expensive.

From what I read in an article at ign, the software ratio for the ps3 launch was below one game per console, this means that lots of this consoles are being bought for the sole purpose of being sold later at an auction site to gain profit out of it, which of course doesn't benefits sony at all.

But yeah, the ps3 is expensive for people who have a tight budget like some of us, in our case all that is left is to wait for price drops. This topic is, quite frankly, old and unnecesary. If you look at it this way, sony is practically giving away their product. A blu-ray player costs around 1000 dollars and they are giving you one plus a hard drive, controllers, and the most powerful console around for 600$ (that supports the highest output to date, 1080p). I can't afford it right now, and for me its too damn expensive but its because I look at it from the console perspective and for me, 600$ is too much for just a console. But if you look at it from the media center side of things, it doesn't looks that expensive.

Sony is betting a lot on the ps3, it's true, but there is still a lot of time left until we see if they were doing the right thing.

On another note, their arrogance is as charming and readily avaliable as always: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745506p1.html

"Sony's PR department pointed out that it, from the start, expected backwards compatibility to be less than 100%. It was also good enough to point out that some people can put up with playing games that lack sound."

lol... Instead of making that arrogant remark, he could have just said "We'll issue a patch to fix this problem".

[Bigfoot]

Burbank Best Buy campers removed

lol, sucks to be them. What a waste of days.

[JoeFu]

Maddox has finally updated his site and his new rant is about Sony.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit

[linkspast]

Burbank Best Buy campers removed

lol, sucks to be them. What a waste of days.

Awesome. I bet they were pissed.

[Bigfoot]

Burbank Best Buy campers removed

lol, sucks to be them. What a waste of days.

Awesome. I bet they were pissed.

I'd sue. In this world I bet they'd win too. They're going to have to put those signs up every time something big comes out that involves lines.