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*NO* Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"


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Hi!
 
My remixer name: Lifestream Orchestra 
 
Real name: Andreas Grimell
 
Email: 
 
user id: 36716
 
Game: Final fantasy VII 
 
Name of arrangement: Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud
 
Name of the song: Bombing mission
 
Additional information: Released on the PSX 1997 and composed by Nobuo Uematsu
 
Original soundtrack:
 
comments about the mix: I've arranged and recorded this as if it where a modern metal song with real drums (Alex Rüdinger) and bass guitar (Johannes Olsson), guitar (myself) ect. The mix has been done by André Alvinzi of Faschination Street (the same studio that has mixed Opeth, Katatonia, Soilwork ect). 
Edited by prophetik music
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  • 3 weeks later...

Guitar has a nice tone, and appreciate the style this is going for. Lead guitar is a bit soft here compared to the big rhythm in the first bars. As the track progresses this continues to be an issue, with the rhythm parts drowning out most of the accompanying elements. This wouldn't be too bad if the rhythm was spending more time playing the main theme instead of being mostly used as an accompanying/supporting instrument. As the mix progresses, it's clear the mixing here needs a revisit. There is some low end rumble from the flurry of kicks, and some unneeded hz at the bottom of the guitars. At 1:36 the horns/lead can't really be heard all that well. At 2:13, the strings are difficult to hear. At 2:46 the horns in the left channel are difficult to hear.

This is a shame, as the guitar playing is decent/tight, and there are some good ideas here. To repeat what I've said previously — a heavy feel does not mean the soundscape should be clouded. Guitars sound big and aggressive when they can be contrast with the elements around them. As it stands, many elements behind the guitars could be stripped out without noticing all that much as they're occupying similar frequency space and notes. When this happens, it's an indicator that your mix has gone too far. I would reconsider what elements here are most important, dial in what's needed, pull back on what isn't, shave some of the bottom frequencies off the guitars and carve a groove for orchestral elements to breathe and be heard.

NO

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  • Jivemaster changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (1N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • 4 weeks later...

I totally see where Jivemaster is coming from on his vote, but I can't say I've reached the same conclusion.

While it is true that most of the lead elements are quieter in the mix, I got the impression that the rhythm guitars were kind of the point here. The main objective here seemed to be transforming the Bombing Mission riffs into an unapologetic onslaught of rhythmic fury, and everything else felt secondary to that goal. None of the lead motifs ever stick around for more than a measure or two, but the rhythm guitars were deliberately placed front and center for most of the arrangement, so I'm inclined to judge this on the merits of what you chose to highlight in your mix. By that standard, this feels pretty damn successful. Your guitar tone is one of the heaviest I've heard in recent memory, the drums are extremely well-recorded and performed (special shoutouts to the bone-rattling toms in the introduction) and the overall production feels on-par with a professional metal track. 

Not sure how this one is going to swing, but I sure do hope to hear this one hit the front page. Good luck with the rest of the vote!

YES \m/ 

 

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  • Emunator changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (1Y/1N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • Emunator pinned this topic

WOW this waveform is a sausage, ok let's see what's up.  Those toms in the intro are awesome, and the guitar tone is great right away.  Oh my this is so loud, peaking at 0.5db and hitting -6.7db RMS, but dang it sounds so huge.  There are some elements I think could be mixed more prominently, the chugs are drowning out almost everything else and there are some lovely details getting lost.  It's a very busy and dense mix, and as Joel pointed out that is tricky unless you mix things just right, making sure all lows are removed from every element that isn't meant to play low.  So the mixing isn't perfect, but this is a really well done arrangement, it's super exciting and I love it, let's do this.

YES

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  • Chimpazilla changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (2Y/1N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"

classic original track here. let's hear it. i like the concept.

the intro is real atmospheric. there's some great tone and it sounds great. the chugs are also really meaty and heavy, which is fun, but it's at the expense of most everything else. i realize this is a stylistic choice, but it's real muddy sounding. i've heard a lot of really heavy stuff that isn't nearly as clogged as this is. the background instrumentation isn't particularly interesting either - if it's not exactly the same as the original it's pretty close, and the leads in the guitars are less leads and more color tones on top of the AK47s in the rhythm guitars.

i'm sounding negative and it's not intentional. i do love metal arrangements of classic game tunes, and there frankly isn't much going on in the original outside the driving rhythm that keeps it moving forward and making you feel the urgency of the mission in-game. i do think that the arrangement here is enough, but it's borderline at best - there's not a ton of originality outside of the transition to the metal ensemble. the mastering is heavy to the ultramax, and that's actually to the detriment of the overall track since you're just totally overwhelming what could be some very powerful drums. however you can still hear everything at least a little, so it's not like the mastering is destroying the mix, just not enhancing it like it could.

i'm pretty torn on this one. i need to wait on it a bit before i vote.

 

 

???

edit: the rhythm guitars are just too loud. the balance is not good enough. the last third or so is particularly egregious. gonna call it.

NO

Edited by prophetik music
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  • prophetik music changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (2Y/1?/1N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • 2 weeks later...

I think the arrangement is fine, and the transition to metal works really well in context. The drumwork in particular was really great to me, all the fills and rhythms felt like they slotted in just right.

The mixing, though, I'm just not feeling. The brass is being super overpowered by the rhythm section, and even then sounds super muddy and like it is in the back of a parking garage. It's just being too drowned out, even for a stylistic choice for me.

NO (resubmit)

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  • DragonAvenger changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (2Y/1?/2N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • 3 weeks later...

I've been going back and forth on this one as well.  Arrangement-wise, it goes straight through the source with minimal alterations aside from the genre adaptation and re-orchestration.  It's one of those examples where even though the melody stayed the same throughout, the variances behind your backing elements like your percussion, rhythm guitars and arpeggiators changed the feeling behind the individual sections altogether.  I can get behind it based on its more subtractive direction.

However, I do agree with my fellow judges regarding the over-the-top mastering.  Firstly, let's go through the positives.  The guitar performances are precise and articulate, your sound palette is rich with high-quality samples, and the expressions are also firm on the VST instruments as much as your live ones.  But not only does the mastering skew so much in the guitar's favor and makes the symphonic orchestration challenging to hear, but the total RMS averages out at nearly -9dB - making it way louder than what it needs to be even for YouTube.  Since the EQ shaping skews more in favor of the low mids, it would take some noticeable EQ cleanup to let your brass and strings cut through the mix.  I like Joel's idea of stripping out parts that the guitar is drowning out, but I also feel transposing some troublesome parts would let them find some room elsewhere.

You've done well with this one so far - don't touch the arrangement or your guitar recordings.  But the hectic mixdown and mastering are currently hindering it for me, I'm afraid.  I'm up for hearing another mixing pass that finds room for your orchestrated elements and (if possible) a master with a lower LUFS level.  I see potential from you - so I hope you get the chance to keep going with your craft.

NO (resubmit)

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  • Rexy changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (2Y/1?/3N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • 2 months later...

Pretty flooded mixing at :40 when everything filled out. No sharpness to anything, but not sure why. Great energy with the performances though. Brass at 1:35 was completely steamrolled by the guitars and drums; same with the flourishes from 1:46-1:49. Too bad, as this is a metal cover with great energy and performances, but it's just a wall of mud (e.g. 2:17-2:31 & 2:46-3:21 being egregious examples where the individual part-writing all just bleeds/muds together).

I'd expect a track to sound blown out like this from some loudspeakers that are far away, not when I'm listening to it on good headphones. It's a great metal adaptation of the source, but y'all have got to substantially improve the mixing on this, or it's a no-go.

NO (resubmit)

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  • Liontamer changed the title to 2020/04/10 - (2Y/1?/4N) Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
  • prophetik music changed the title to *NO* Final Fantasy 7 "Welcome to Avalanche, Cloud"
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