MnP 119: All Metroid's

[HoboKa]

8 hours ago, Wassup Thunder said:

YEAH I'LL SEE YOU NEXT MISSION! It was a musical massage session to go through all that metroid in one place. Great work all around.

See you next mission, boss.  Also...NickC's entry sounded mostly fine on my Sony Headphones, but after voting, I went onto my Laptop with my Maxwell headphones and got a much muddier picture....So it was probably a very controversial vote to put in #1...Maybe I'm worrying too much.  Just thought I'd put that caveat out there in case people had the 'Maxwell' experience when placing their vote, as it were.  Plus, I DID say that medleys are fine this round.   

Edited December 4, 2020 by HoboKa
tone-shift. Was rather obtuse a statement at first. Sorry.

[HoboKa]

5 hours ago, Souperion said:

Loved all the pieces here, it was a treat to hear so many Metroid mixes in one voting-sitting. Flattered and astounded at a win. If I gotta pick December's source, I'd better go find some nice wintery toon, eh?

Definitely a well-earned victory.  Congrats dude!  Yup, something wintery.  See you next mission.

[TheVideoGamer]

16 hours ago, Souperion said:

Loved all the pieces here, it was a treat to hear so many Metroid mixes in one voting-sitting. Flattered and astounded at a win. If I gotta pick December's source, I'd better go find some nice wintery toon, eh?

I prefer chocolate chip XD. You really had me reeling on that thing. I was going through Metroid OSTs, racking my brain.

See you all next mission?

Haha see you next mission! I might do it again, when the time's right.

[TheVideoGamer]

15 hours ago, Wassup Thunder said:

YEAH I'LL SEE YOU NEXT MISSION! It was a musical massage session to go through all that metroid in one place. Great work all around.
And dang, TheVideoGamer, I do feel dumb now that I know what it is. I thought it sounded a little like Phendrana Drifts. Beautiful.

Lol the extreme stretching can mess with your brain. Thanks anyways!

[TheVideoGamer]

11 hours ago, HoboKa said:

See you next mission, boss.  Also...NickC's entry sounded mostly fine on my Sony Headphones, but after voting, I went onto my Laptop with my Maxwell headphones and got a much muddier picture....So it was probably a very controversial vote to put in #1...Maybe I'm worrying too much.  Just thought I'd put that caveat out there in case people had the 'Maxwell' experience when placing their vote, as it were.  Plus, I DID say that medleys are fine this round.   

Lol i made him my second choice. It's a remix for me, that is sooo out there, and quite a listen, but i always found myself returning to it, and enjoying it more and more.

[The Vodoú Queen]

22 minutes ago, TheVideoGamer said:

Lol i made him my second choice. It's a remix for me, that is sooo out there, and quite a listen, but i always found myself returning to it, and enjoying it more and more.

Hm... Maybe it's a good time to ask the question, since part of my perplexity since yesterday followed some of the comments I received on my work.

...Where exactly did I go wrong? Sorry, I am not trying to offend in saying this, but I see most peeps praising Nick's work for near the exact reason why mine was downplayed and frowned on some. The "it's way out there and wack", "non-conservative" approach, but mine fell short by comparison and I am at odds in trying to rake my brain and track to see why. I agree with Hobo's assessment about the discordant sound from 5:00, but am unsure how or why mine was somehow so out there that people did not even recognize the song until much later than expected (the opening bass for Red Soil Brinstar starts about 1:00-1:30). Like no offense to Nick's work, I found it muddy coming out of my speakers too, and I almost did not recognize his source either.

Perhaps it's a difference in tastes at this point. ^^;

And to answer someone who asked the question, no, the song wasn't a full medley. Yes, it was a full (albeit, I suppose, sorry), lengthy song, and the only bit of it that people seemed to deem it as something different entirely is the mid-section, where I took a dive into the Green Brinstar chords in trying to add a bit of spice to the track. ...Seemed that failed, however, seeing as half the people hated the vocal chops and there's an air that somehow I did and didn't go full-monty with the lo-fi sound (which also confuses me).

...I'd just like a bit of clarification as to how what Nick and I essentially did panned out for one but not the other, so I know where I went wrong and how to improve. ...Where people returned to his and enjoyed it more but seemingly, frankly, just got tired / exhausted with mine.

I hope this didn't come off and sound offensive or angry. I'm disappointed, but neither of those, lol.

Edited December 4, 2020 by The Vodoú Queen

[The Vodoú Queen]

BTW I didn't rip the midi. I literally had to input each note and adjust its length manually, with a mouse, and no keyboard. I looked at a piano reel on YT to get the 3-4 track basis of the song, and doubled it for more instrumentation. I struggled like hell to get the midi to function with everyone else but people heard the slight drag (with the sax especially), regardless. I tried to take that weakness and turn it into a strength to make it feel like an almost realistic jazzy sax playing over the rest of the song but...I guess not.

Oh well I tried. xD

Also I am unsure what was meant by the percussion / beat overshadowing anything. I did not get that sense of it, but it might just be me.

Edited December 4, 2020 by The Vodoú Queen
Clarification

[TheVideoGamer]

27 minutes ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

Hm... Maybe it's a good time to ask the question, since part of my perplexity since yesterday followed some of the comments I received on my work.

...Where exactly did I go wrong? Sorry, I am not trying to offend in saying this, but I see most peeps praising Nick's work for near the exact reason why mine was downplayed and frowned on some. The "it's way out there and wack", "non-conservative" approach, but mine fell short by comparison and I am at odds in trying to rake my brain and track to see why. I agree with Hobo's assessment about the discordant sound from 5:00, but am unsure how or why mine was somehow so out there that people did not even recognize the song until much later than expected (the opening bass for Red Soil Brinstar starts about 1:00-1:30). Like no offense to Nick's work, I found it muddy coming out of my speakers too, and I almost did not recognize his source either.

Perhaps it's a difference in tastes at this point. ^^;

And to answer someone who asked the question, no, the song wasn't a full medley. Yes, it was a full (albeit, I suppose, sorry), lengthy song, and the only bit of it that people seemed to deem it as something different entirely is the mid-section, where I took a dive into the Green Brinstar chords in trying to add a bit of spice to the track. ...Seemed that failed, however, seeing as half the people hated the vocal chops and there's an air that somehow I did and didn't go full-monty with the lo-fi sound (which also confuses me).

...I'd just like a bit of clarification as to how what Nick and I essentially did panned out for one but not the other, so I know where I went wrong and how to improve. ...Where people returned to his and enjoyed it more but seemingly, frankly, just got tired / exhausted with mine.

I hope this didn't come off and sound offensive or angry. I'm disappointed, but neither of those, lol.

The main critique i had, was really the length. I felt, like you stretched it on for a bit, because by the 5 minute mark, i didn't feel it developing, or going somewhere, but the rest sounded lovely to my ears, in that the drums were amazing, and the synth choices were super pleasant. 

Remember these comments aren't meant as direct attacks to your artistic craft, these are comments aimed at giving at advice. My comments, were mainly "This is what i would do" or "I felt like from the perspective of me, a musician i would have tried this, or had done this". 

Also note as well, remixing Metroid for me, does not further my career, i just do this, to have a bit of fun, and trade ideas back and forth from other people in my calibre. Think of it as a part-time hobby.

Also one more thing, NickC is coming from a stylistic choice, that requires discipline. Only real musicians and music aficionados will probably understand what message Nick is trying to convey, while a random person on the internet (Who mostly i don't know...listen to pop music or something), might categorise his remix as, unwanted background noise, (No offence Nick, i loved your entrant, i'm just explaining based on the random general consumer). I didn't immediately switch of Nick's entrant, because it was loud and noisy, instead, i learnt, throughout the journey, what ideas were being presented, and why. I got to grips with his style. Not everyone likes pop music, but also not everyone likes Industrial music. And those who like Industrial music, might not like every song in that genre, and it's a good idea to learn why, In this case, the reason being, i felt 8 minutes was a little too long (Especially for Lo-Fi Hip-Hop, where i mostly listen to tracks roughly 3 minutes long). My words don't fuel the overall consensus, but rather, what i've learnt, about each respective style, from listening. I know lots about techno/house, but very little in regards to say...jazz music, but that's because i don't actively seek out jazz, i just learn basic techniques from that genre, hence why my comments might be different to other people's.

All I'm trying to say is, don't take these comments to heart, it's just advice, on what i might have done, or what i would suggest you do. I mostly take what people have said about my track, and use that for future remixes. 

It's all in good fun, trading tips and tricks along the way, as well as ideas, software plugins, just really a place for both Video Game nerds and Music nerds to come together.

Maybe the next round might be up your alley yes?

Hope you understand, and also i hope i didn't come across as ignorant, I'm a fan of keeping it civil. Thanks for entering anyways, your track really did sound great!

Edited December 4, 2020 by TheVideoGamer

[The Vodoú Queen]

28 minutes ago, TheVideoGamer said:

Also one more thing, NickC is coming from a stylistic choice, that requires discipline. Only real musicians and music aficionados will probably understand what message Nick is trying to convey, while a random person on the internet (Who mostly i don't know...listen to pop music or something), might categorise it as, unwanted background noise (No offence Nick, i loved your entrant, i'm just explaining for the random general consumer)

Whoa, OK, I think one of us got off on the wrong foot.

I am unsure what you're trying to say here. I had nothing against his stylistic choice, and--for that matter--love Mick Gordon's work with Doom (which is obviously where the inspiration came from). We all came from some stylistic choice that requries some form of discipline or know-how to achieve, so trying to say "only real musicians and music aficionados will probably understand" is a bit of an umbrella misnomer that is sounding, sorry...a bit borderline pretentious? As someone coming from art and writing, that's almost equivalent of trying to defend, let's say, a piece of abstract art and saying "only we of [insert field here] would truly understand," and that's a bit much when all I said was it came out muddy. And I am unsure how you're trying to direct that towards me or anyone else coming into this.

I am not taking this as a personal attack, I was seeking guidance and further clarification to some of the comments. That's all. I don't know you either, but it's a bit much to come at that angle. I asked what was the difference, I neither said Nick did not deserve it nor did I categorise it as "unwanted background noise." And I don't know who you're referring to as the 'random general consumer' in this, on a thread, in a forum, dedicated, as you said, for "video game nerds and music nerds to come together," but now it is sounding like something it probably shouldn't. :/ I hope I am not misreading you.

OK I misread you a little bit, and for that I apologize.

Edited December 4, 2020 by The Vodoú Queen
Saw your edits, lol. It's OK, sometimes I sound like a tiger ripping people a new one, when leaping out of my cage--metaphorically speaking--when it comes to critiques. D:

[The Vodoú Queen]

18 minutes ago, TheVideoGamer said:

The main critique i had, was really the length. I felt, like you stretched it on for a bit, because by the 5 minute mark, i didn't feel it developing, or going somewhere, but the rest sounded lovely to my ears, in that the drums were amazing, and the synth choices were super pleasant. 

Remember these comments aren't meant as direct attacks to your artistic craft, these are comments aimed at giving at advice. My comments, were mainly "This is what i would do" or "I felt like from the perspective of me, a musician i would have tried this, or had done this". 

Also note as well, remixing Metroid for me, does not further my career, i just do this, to have a bit of fun, and trade ideas back and forth from other people in my calibre. Think of it as a part-time hobby.

It's all in good fun, trading tips and tricks along the way, as well as ideas, software plugins, just really a place for both Video Game nerds and Music nerds to come together.

Maybe the next round might be up your alley yes?

Hope you understand. Thanks for entering anyways.

I understand. I figured it was mainly about the length, and I agree. I had some reservation about its length in making it, but figured I'd try and see where it went. But thank you for your kind words. I'll see what I can do next time to curb the enthusiasm on the length, (so far a lot of what I've made is too long, for what it's worth.)

But understandable. Thanks for clarifying.

[TheVideoGamer]

38 minutes ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

BTW I didn't rip the midi. I literally had to input each note and adjust its length manually, with a mouse, and no keyboard. I looked at a piano reel on YT to get the 3-4 track basis of the song, and doubled it for more instrumentation. I struggled like hell to get the midi to function with everyone else but people heard the slight drag (with the sax especially), regardless. I tried to take that weakness and turn it into a strength to make it feel like an almost realistic jazzy sax playing over the rest of the song but...I guess not.

Oh well I tried. xD

Also I am unsure what was meant by the percussion / beat overshadowing anything. I did not get that sense of it, but it might just be me.

If it helps, all the sources i pick, come with my own custom made MIDI from scratch. So this means, listening to the song by ear, or separating it into channels (Particularly NES/Sega Genesis games, as software is available that can do that. Then i listen to each channel, and program the MIDI that way.)

I do this, because:

1. It's a real MIDI, and not a converter, which i can tell straight away, makes remix a pain.

2. It's such a convenience for the rest of the participants, to know, it's a decent MIDI, that works on most DAWS.

It's no easy feet, it is a challenge, if the song very much complex. I've made MIDI's that have taken weeks, because of the complex sound.

The one thing i will say, is that it's a god send, to have perfect pitch, it makes MIDI making soo much easier. Like it's a gift in itself.

No worries anyways, i think you are awesome, and i'm looking forward to more remixes from you!

 

[TheVideoGamer]

25 minutes ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

Whoa, OK, I think one of us got off on the wrong foot.

I am unsure what you're trying to say here. I had nothing against his stylistic choice, and--for that matter--love Mick Gordon's work with Doom (which is obviously where the inspiration came from). We all came from some stylistic choice that requries some form of discipline or know-how to achieve, so trying to say "only real musicians and music aficionados will probably understand" is a bit of an umbrella misnomer that is sounding, sorry...a bit borderline pretentious? As someone coming from art and writing, that's almost equivalent of trying to defend, let's say, a piece of abstract art and saying "only we of [insert field here] would truly understand," and that's a bit much when all I said was it came out muddy. And I am unsure how you're trying to direct that towards me or anyone else coming into this.

I am not taking this as a personal attack, I was seeking guidance and further clarification to some of the comments. That's all. I don't know you either, but it's a bit much to come at that angle. I asked what was the difference, I neither said Nick did not deserve it nor did I categorise it as "unwanted background noise." And I don't know who you're referring to as the 'random general consumer' in this, on a thread, in a forum, dedicated, as you said, for "video game nerds and music nerds to come together," but now it is sounding like something it probably shouldn't. :/ I hope I am not misreading you.

Ahh sorry, i didn't want to seem arrogant, I can come off as a bit socially awkward sometimes, (Both here, and in real-life...)

What i refer to, when i said that, was it's taste. I'm not a huge fan of commercial music, it can sound boring, however some people DO like it. Instead of leaving it at that, i learned to understand, why i didn't like it, and from doing so, it mainly came down to 3 things:

1. Pop music is over produced, with 10 producers, on a song that needs only 1.

2. The chord progressions can be very repetitive. Tracks like the infamous "Despacito", which was a huge pop hit in the past few years, loops a 4 chord sequence over and over, and not in a exciting way, but a "I've heard it all before way"

3. Pop music is not original enough, for me to keep listening. Which is also a good point to bring up, as when i listen to remixes in these compo's, i pick up on things, that give me strong emotions/reactions (Things that make me go "Oooh, this cool, or this is unique etc..), which for the most part, really amp up, the quality of a remix, and why it was so good. Such a reaction occurred, when the heavy beats came in your Metroid remix, I though they sounded awesome!

For others, all 3 points mentioned above, can be seen as a good thing, with many people having a fond for this kind of production. Others might feel this way instead:

1. Michael Jackson's music (A music legend to some), was done with up to about 50 people or so producing and engineering, so already, that rules out point 1, in me saying it's over-produced.

2. The 1950's era of music, was known for looping chord sequences over and over, so that rules out point 2, since i really enjoy music from the 50/60's. I find it pleasant. 

3. I also employ a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude, so that rules out point 3, since if it works for one track, why can't it work for another. It's almost as if I'm contradicting myself, despite there being a good reason as to why i would contradict myself.

All of these are counter-arguments as to my original critiscms of why i don't like chart hits/pop music.

This is why i don't dismiss people's reasons for enjoying modern day pop music, because they come from a different background than mine. That's why i don't actively seek lo-fi hip hop compared to others, hence my reasoning, for why i think your track went on for too long. I only know of this kind of music, from tracks i occasionally listen to, as being 3 minutes or under. If you catch my drift.

Remember media was created for everyone, but holds a special place for someone. So when i say, NickC is for "real musicians" or "Music aficionados", i am referring to the fact, that most mainstream public, have been fed on a diet of chart hits, so they might not actively seek out this kind of genre, and when they do they might, find this a little too much, a little too out-there from what you might think the public listen to.

Sorry if i insulted you anyways, hope you appreciate my 2 cents.

Edited December 4, 2020 by TheVideoGamer

[The Vodoú Queen]

Hey. No, you didn't insult me. I took a step back and re-analyzed what you said. I am soaking in everything, trust me. It just sounds like I'm a bit hot and annoyed, but am seeking to learn and listen, and sometimes I sound rough and angry at that person giving the commentary due to it. If anything, I'm being tough and annoyed at myself, not you.

*Big hugs* It's cool, we're all awkward af. It's why we be here congregating and all.

I understand where you're coming from and listening. I take all of this in good faith. Thanks again taking the time out to clarify to the max like you did. ♥

I very much appreciate your 2 cents. It's more like a dollar-fifty for me. xD

Edited December 4, 2020 by The Vodoú Queen

[TheVideoGamer]

6 minutes ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

Hey. No, you didn't insult me. I took a step back and re-analyzed what you said. I am soaking in everything, trust me. It just sounds like I'm a bit hot and annoyed, but am seeking to learn and listen, and sometimes I sound rough and angry at that person giving the commentary due to it. If anything, I'm being tough and annoyed at myself, not you.

*Big hugs* It's cool, we're all awkward af. It's why we be here congregating and all.

I understand where you're coming from and listening. I take all of this in good faith. Thanks again taking the time out to clarify to the max like you did. ♥

I very much appreciate your 2 cents. It's more like a dollar-fifty for me. xD

Not in a weird way, this sentiment warms my heart a bit lol.

I'm glad you and i, are on the same page now, i really like it, when we are all a commiunity.

Here's to a bright future full of remixes! 

I think this whole conversation has turned into at least 5 dollars worth of discussion haha...

[Souperion]

19 minutes ago, TheVideoGamer said:

I think this whole conversation has turned into at least 5 dollars worth of discussion haha...

I'd buy ya both a pizza for such an enlightening dialogue. I'm sorry that things were a little rough for ya this round, Vodou Queen, but stick with it. I remember the first time I brought a track to the workshop, almost 3 years ago. It was a hunkajunk made with the free website soundtrap, and I asked for an evaluator's review. At the time, it was my favorite homemade mix, but I can't even listen to it anymore without getting hypertension. Thankfully, Timaeus222 was able to gently shatter my paradigm at the time. My point is that music is a (sometimes painful) growing experience. I don't think your preferred genre and style are an issue here. Keep mixing and listening to composers who do the stuff you like, bits and pieces of improvement will come, and the hobby/career will become more rewarding. 

This may seem a bit conceited, coming from a goob who just took 1st, but I think we all are familiar with compositional frustration.

1 hour ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

I literally had to input each note and adjust its length manually, with a mouse, and no keyboard.

Also, I am massively impressed with your accomplishment in transcribing the piece under such conditions.

[Souperion]

And I sure appreciate the feedback, finally found where it was.

[HoboKa]

Well, @The Vodoú QueenI hope you're feeling a bit better.  I didn't feel I was able to back the underdog's horse (publicly) this time around.  Last year, I did that and it didn't end so well.  More sensibilities were hurt than mended, I'll tell you that much.  Glad to see you guys are very positive and constructive. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by HoboKa

[HoboKa]

Next round is up!

[TheVideoGamer]

4 hours ago, HoboKa said:

Well, @The Vodoú QueenI hope you're feeling a bit better.  I didn't feel I was able to back the underdog's horse (publicly) this time around.  Last year, I did that and it didn't end so well.  More sensibilities were hurt than mended, I'll tell you that much.  Glad to see you guys are very positive and constructive. 

I'm glad too 

[The Vodoú Queen]

Well, here's three hearts: ♥♥♥, to along with those cookies, for VG, Soup and Hobo.

Anyone else can have some hearts too, IDM.

@HoboKaIt's all cool. :3

7 hours ago, Souperion said:

I'd buy ya both a pizza for such an enlightening dialogue. I'm sorry that things were a little rough for ya this round, Vodou Queen, but stick with it. I remember the first time I brought a track to the workshop, almost 3 years ago. It was a hunkajunk made with the free website soundtrap, and I asked for an evaluator's review. At the time, it was my favorite homemade mix, but I can't even listen to it anymore without getting hypertension. Thankfully, Timaeus222 was able to gently shatter my paradigm at the time. My point is that music is a (sometimes painful) growing experience. I don't think your preferred genre and style are an issue here. Keep mixing and listening to composers who do the stuff you like, bits and pieces of improvement will come, and the hobby/career will become more rewarding. 

This may seem a bit conceited, coming from a goob who just took 1st, but I think we all are familiar with compositional frustration.

Also, I am massively impressed with your accomplishment in transcribing the piece under such conditions.

@SouperionDon't worry about it. But thank you for understanding the sentiment. Nothing like a good paradigm shattering to get one's butt into gear, though. Look where it's got you now! It's not at all conceited. Like I said before, everyone deserves what they got and everyone deserves a big round of applause for some excellent stuff.

...Now I am just itching to start on the new MnP. >.> You picked a good one, even if sadly I never finished Secret of Mana, haha.

[Souperion]

1 hour ago, The Vodoú Queen said:

...Now I am just itching to start on the new MnP. >.> You picked a good one, even if sadly I never finished Secret of Mana, haha.

That's the spirit! It was a hard call between the ice fields and the ice palace. And the snow fields from Seiken Densetsu 3/Trials of Mana/ Secret of Mana 2. Looking forward to hearing takes on the song.

[APZX]

@The Vodoú QueenI approached it from a slightly different point of view than the others (at least I kind of think I did). Anyway, I did not have a problem with the length at all. What really irked me had nothing to do with the composition itself, but more in the way the track was presented. My compositional skills are at best, meh. However, I can gauge where you were trying to go from a perspective in terms of sound. Take that saxophone for instance. It is just BEGGING for a long reverb tail on it, with a gentle reduction in the highs of the instrument. But what you have instead is a sound that is completely separated from the rest of the track at that point. The drums fit fantastically with the general vibe, they're prominent enough to be heard, but do not themselves take center stage. It is like the rest of the instrumentation sitting below that saxophone. This is just touching the surface of what I mean when I say space.

If you go listen to pretty much any kind of commercially released music and pay close attention you should start to notice that there is a certain feeling or sense cohesion or depth to the tracks. This is the rather abstract concept of space in terms of music. At least to me. Your track just juxtaposes instruments in an attempt to try and capture or relate the uneasy feeling of Metroid's soundtracks when in reality the vast majority of Metroid's off putting sound really comes from the fact that it is not music in a traditional sense, but more atmospheric. More about the suspension of what is the game's sound effects and environment sounds and what is the soundtrack itself. In of itself it is not about the individual notes nor the instruments, but the way that everything is blended together to create the atmosphere that we recognize as the sound of Metroid. It is one of the reasons why I do not like remixing Metroid tracks in general, and why I did a pretty conservative re-interpretation of a track rather than try a proper remix.

Really, after doing some re-listening to the tracks that were in this round, I noticed that a lot of work was spent on actually making the originals more musical sounding rather than trying to really emulate the nuances that make Metroid's soundtrack sound so much like Metroid.

[HoboKa]

19 hours ago, APZX said:

the vast majority of Metroid's off putting sound really comes from the fact that it is not music in a traditional sense, but more atmospheric. More about the suspension of what is the game's sound effects and environment sounds and what is the soundtrack itself. In of itself it is not about the individual notes nor the instruments, but the way that everything is blended together to create the atmosphere that we recognize as the sound of Metroid. 

Speaking of abstract and atmospheric Super Metroidness, Trism and Dex did a pretty good job of capturing the atmosphere of Maridia, last year.  You should check it out APZX!  And everyone else lmao.  

https://compo.thasauce.net/rounds/view/MnP111

Edited December 6, 2020 by HoboKa

[Dextastic]

Congrats Souperion! Great remix.

TVQ, yes, the guitars in my remix were live. Thanks for asking. I am not very good yet, but I am starting to feel myself getting better with practice.