prophetik music ⚖️ Posted October 22, 2024 Posted October 22, 2024 Hello, This track was originally arranged for the Pixel-Mixers album "Djjinstrumentals" - a tribute to the music of Golden Sun, to be released soon. My choice was to remix "On That Night, 3 Years Ago", which is a track i really like. For my remix, i wanted to make something like 'synthwave prog' because a lot of sound choices and design are very synthwave-ish, but most of the track feels more like a prog track, with odd meters and never really 'settling' on a 4/4 groove for long periods of time, and that is not very much synthwave. Added lots of synth layers, to add movement to a source that is very centered around the bass, added guitars and new parts and solos. Insipired by early 80s soft-prog such as Asia (the band, not the continent) and Styx, the final result is something that think can stand on its own, but of course, that is for the judges to decide. :) Source / Arrangement Breakdown. 00:00 - 00:40 - my own parts - inspired by the chord progression 00:40 - 01:07 - my own melody, over the source's intro bassline. 01:07 - 01:27 - source intro 01:27 - 01:47 - variation of the source intro, mixed with my own part. 01:47 - 02:11 - source melody 02:11 - 02:37 - my own transitional part 02:37 - 02:55 - source melody 02:55 - 03:14 - variation of the source intro, mixed with my own part. 03:14 - 03:35 - source melody 03:35 - 04:00 - my own solos 04:00 - 04:42 - my own melody, over the source's intro bassline. 04:42 - 05:14 - source chords as an outro. Games & Sources Golden Sun - On That Night, 3 Years Ago:
prophetik music ⚖️ Posted October 23, 2024 Author Posted October 23, 2024 opens with some wide synths and bells. i can definitely hear the styx influence initially in the structure. i like the way you handled the original's echoing bass intro around 1:07, that's a clever adaptation. when the guitar comes in at 2:02, i think it's pretty loud there compared to what else is going on, but other than that i liked what was going on in there especially in the backing parts. the transitional parts that follow are kind of noodly and don't really flow super well - for example i felt that the transition into 2:11 kind of just happened (and that that section just was there to take up space), and similarly the transitions starting at 3:24 going from the synth lead to the guitar and then back to the guitar were janky and didn't connect well. there's some more melody noodles and some solo work, and then we walk the chords out the door. throughout the track, i found the kick's room sound/reverb to be pretty noticeable - more than the impact was actually in a few places - and that was not something i cared for. the thin lead synth that often was playing octaves was, conversely, lacking in verb so it came through pretty sharp. other than that, though, i liked the soundscape and approach that you did here. this is a really neat different concept that i haven't really heard much of, and it's fun to hear the proggy roots that you tend to lean towards represented in a new set of sounds. i think i'd have preferred more focus on the transitions throughout and in shaping the track a little more intentionally, but what's here is fun. nice work. YES
Chimpazilla ⚖️ Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Multiple time signatures detected! I hear 4/4, 3/4, 5/4 and 6/4. I love that. Very cool proggy take on this source. Source seems to be entirely in 6/4. Opens with some seriously phasered synth, bells and some auto-panned synth too. The guitar work sounds great. Nice full soundscape, good mix of instrumentation. Mixing is good, everything is clear, I do hear that extra reverb on the kick (along with the rest of the kit) and I agree with proph that it is too much, but not enough to detract from the mix substantially. I also agree with proph that some of the transitions are not smooth enough (especially when moving suddenly to a new time sig), but again not dealbreaker for me. Cool track, nice work. YES
jnWake ⚖️ Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Golden Sun! Always tricky to remix with Sakuraba's thing for weird rhytms/chord progressions. Anyway, this begins with some big synth chords doing F# minor and E minor, just like the source. Synth pad has a bit of an Ayreon vibe (that is, old scifi-ish). Bells, bass, kick and even a guitar lead join in as the interplay between these 2 chords continues, with even some 80s toms in the mix. At 1:07 we move to a section with just drum and bass, echoing the source. Bass is unusually high pitched here, I wish it was more "bassy". Drums are very heavy on reverb, kind of a genre thing I suppose. Chords return eventually and around 1:46 we get the first melody from the source on synths, and then a second source melody on guitar. At 2:11 there's kind of a break with a new rhytm on drums+bass. The combination of kick+bass here sounds a bit grating to me, very tiring on the ears. At 2:37 we get a guitar riff echoing a bass riff from the source. We return to the rhytm from 1:07 and another melody from the source plays on synth before we get a repeat of the guitar lead melody. At 3:34 we move to some solos. For the synth one I miss some more modulation/vibrato, it sounds dull. Guitar solo is lovely though, love the initial arpeggio. For the final minute or so we return to the intro premise, with a pad changing between F# minor and E minor while some instruments play above. On the arrangement side this is definitely great, you did an awesome job of taking the F# minor -> E minor progression and giving movement to it with changing rhytms and smart placements of the source's melodies. My only arrangement nitpick is that the ending is too long for my tastes, but it's not really a dealbreaker. On production I'm torn. On one hand I like the sound design, you nailed the synthwave vibe perfectly with those pads, with my only nitpick being the slightly dull playing in the synth solo. However, I'm not sold on the drums and bass, especially on the many sections where they are the focus. First, I find the kick to be extremely clicky with too much on the higher frequencies (2-5kHz). Second, the snare doesn't have much body and it struggles to cut through as well on the busiest sections. Finally, the bass also has a lot of high frequency content so the combination of kick+bass ends up being quite grating. Sections like 2:12 are very hard on the ears. Overall, while I think the arrangement's pretty cool and there's a ton to like in the soundscape I can't bring myself to pass this yet. I hate to split the vote but I'd love if you could revisit the drum/bass mix before this gets on the site. NO
XPRTNovice ⚖️ Posted March 18 Posted March 18 Clean opening. Love the way the bass is mixed better than the source, and the guitar is coming out very clean as well. Overall feeling nice and tight as we get into the awesome 80s drums at 1:00. Then the kick drum hits me in the face. It's way too out front, and it's got WAY too much compression/punch on it, especially when it's out in front. It takes over the mix from 1:00 onward that makes it difficult to listen to anything else. The rest of the drums don't have this problem, and this is a super easy fix. It makes the drums sound cheap, and when you have it sitting behind your amazingly recorded and produced guitar solo, the difference is even more stark. When it's combined with the snap of the bass the way you have it mixed, it increases that effect even more. Because you have the pop (maybe multiband compressed?) of the kick drum the way it is, it also takes out a lot of the bottom of the mix, making it feel a little mid/top heavy, especially if you don't have the synth pads supporting the mix. The bass instrument isn't subby/low enough to compensate either, so possibly adding some more low freq into the kick, AND the bass, AND killing that overcompressed almost prog-metal pop you've got going on will make this really shine. That kills it for me, but the good news is that these fixes are probably super easy. We're talking like 10 min of messing around with the signal chain of 2 instruments to take this mix all the way home. NO (PLEASE RESUBMIT)
Hemophiliac ⚖️ Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Vibe is great, this feels very similar to your previous Octopath Traveler 2 submission. Dark, ominous, 80s-feeling synths and toms fit in perfectly. I love the tone chosen for the guitar and the bass. As everyone before me has pointed out this isn't perfect. I find myself agreeing with some criticisms and others I feel that can be overlooked. The mixing of the drums isn't ideal, but it's good enough to get by. The kick has more beater than bass making it lose some beef and body. Not ideal but I can get over this, and it's certainly not brittle sounding either. Transitions were another weak part of this track, often between the sections there isn't much of one to be found. That leaves the time signature changes feeling unprepared, and a little awkward. I can't make perfect be the enemy of good enough on this one, as I feel what's here is over the bar and my criticisms are nitpicks rather than bombs. YES (borderline)
pixelseph ⚖️ Posted March 19 Posted March 19 Another big vibe track from Tibonev! The first 40 seconds of washy phaser build, followed by the next 20 seconds of clean guitar and panning synth, really sell the synthwave style without getting too mired in the genre's specifics. Changing the 6/4 to feel more like 4/4 in triplets (or 12/8 if one prefers) @ 1:07 for the source bassline is a swagger move! The clean guitar and the synth bass are a great team in this soundscape. I have to agree with my fellow Js on the weak transitional elements and will call out a few that stick out the most to me. The chirpy saw lead @ 1:47 - 1:51 feels like it gets interrupted mid-sentence even though there is a repeated and filtered arp of the last three notes in the right channel. Bringing that element closer to the foreground would help mitigate this interrupted feel. The guitar coming in @ 2:02 feels more like a melodic handoff by comparison. Proph mentioned the guitar sounding louder here compared to the synth leads previously and I agree; a -3dB drop in the mids around 400hz-600hz would bring it more in line with the chirpy saw. The transition @ 3:24 is another area to shore up. I dig the snare and tom fill bringing us into the transition from 12/8 to 4/4, however, it's currently voiced as carrying the 12/8 feel instead of introducing the 4/4 feel coming up. Shifting the hits such that they announce the new feel will smooth this kind of transition, especially since the feel is going to shift again @ 3:34. Drums and percussion are among the best ways to conduct these feel transitions! Ultimately I'm in the same boat as Hemo. I dig the instrumentation and the arrangement, and while there are production elements that aren't gelling (transitions between meter/feel changes, volume on lead elements out of balance) I'm not finding them to be enough to sink it. YES
Emunator ⚖️ Posted March 22 Posted March 22 Oooohh, the opening phasing is a treat for the ears on headphones, this is starting off strong. Excellent mood setting and sound choices across the board, it was very immersive. The guitar tone is especially good here and, as I've noted on your previous submissions, is a highlight of the track, but the synths aren't slouching either. I think this is one of your most effective sound palettes that I've heard to date! When we hit 1:07, some of the problems with the mix jump front and center because you've left the problematic elements completely exposed, and once I hear them in isolation, the distracting effect persists through the whole song. I'm talking about the room reverb on the kick and snare, and how you can hear the reverb on every single hit. It ends up feeling like the reverb is its own percussive element that offsets the groove, rather than blending it with the rest of the instruments like reverb should be doing. I also agree with the drum compression issues noted by XPRTNovice, and would also agree that this critique applies to the bassline just as much. It's hard to tell precisely what's going on, but the bass presence in the song feels skewed toward the transient, and conversely feels deficient in the actual bass frequency range. It ends up with neither of those instruments doing what you really want them to do in the mix - maintain the pulse of the song and fill out the low frequency spectrum. The transitions are ambitious and, unfortunately, seem to miss the mark more often than they hit. There's already been some good advice shared to button those up with drum fills or effects, and I second that wholeheartedly. Oftentimes, I think the issue is simply that you cut off the leading elements from the previous section too quickly as you jump to the next section, and it would help glue the parts together better if you let those sustain for longer as you transition between time sigs. I'm not the expert on mixed-meter so I'll mostly defer to the other judges on the specifics here, but it's definitely an issue I felt before I even got into analysis mode. Ultimately, you've crafted a really ambitious, creative arrangement using some of your best-designed synths to date, but some of the foundational elements are letting this down. The issues with the drum/bass mixing and the transitions, unfortunately, are spread across nearly the whole track so it's harder to handwave their impact as isolated nitpicks. I do think these elements need some TLC before this reaches its full potential. NO (resubmit)
Liontamer ⚖️ Posted March 24 Posted March 24 Cool arrangement concept! Well produced too, in the sense that there are some fairly default-y/vanilla-sounding synths in spots, yet they have a full and spacious sound. The main problem for me it that there's too many instances of default-y sounds paired with overly quantized/stiff/locked-to-grid-sounding timing that's undermining the energy and presentation here, for example the lead at 1:46, the bass & beats at 2:01 & 2:11, both the lead and countermelody at 3:14, the lead from 3:34-3:47. Even the live guiitar, for example at 2:38, doesn't feel that expressive, it lacks fluidity. If you can adequately address those issues, I can shift my vote. Lots of potential, but ultimately, this doesn't sound ready yet, even though I understand where the YESes are coming from. Even if this passes, tibone, you should see how you can tighten this up! NO (resubmit)
paradiddlesjosh ⚖️ Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Howdy, tibone! There's a lot to like about this track: the proggy meter shifts, the vibe, and the tasteful use of the washy phaser, for a start. You've struck a good balance between original content and overt source usage. The phaser-y snare build into the 5/8 segment at 2:35 is a highlight moment for me, along with the bookend intro and outro. While I'm not a fan of the abrupt tempo shift from the shuffle sections into the faster straight 4/4 segments at 2:02 and 3:25, the change-ups keep things fresh. I want to acknowledge the pain points my fellow Js have previously pointed out. Like I said previously, the tempo shifts at 2:02 and (less so) at 3:25 are abrupt--not ideal, but not a dealbreaker to me. The drums have too much room/reverb, the kick has too much beater attack and not enough bottom end, and the snare has no punch, but these are nitpicks. The bass could certainly stand to come down an octave (or the first harmonic, one octave up from the fundamental, EQ'd down) for better low-end goodness, but it's also not a dealbreaker to me. I disagree with Liontamer regarding the quantization, but I get where he's coming from: a standout moment for me on this subject is the guitar solo from 3:48-4:01, if only because you were rushing ahead of the beat and the accompaniment remained static behind you. Given that synthwave is a more electronic-focused style, timing humanization isn't a priority (though it is for soft prog), so I'm willing to hand-wave that aspect of it. In the future, though, some tempo automation to nudge the virtual instruments to your playing tempo will keep things feeling cohesive, and that's easier to accomplish than playing perfectly on the grid yourself. Overall, the track isn't perfect, but it's above the bar. YES
Rexy ⚖️ Posted March 25 Posted March 25 Yikes! Usually, it takes me way more time to digest a Golden Sun source simply because Sakuraba writes whatever he could get away with on the chip at hand - but your decision to add in all of these different time signatures caught me by surprise and dialed up those intentions to 11. I approve of this! The source breakdown also worked out in its favor - evident use of the melodies and adaptations to the newer time signatures when necessary, and some thoughtful noodling at the tail ends. I should highlight that aspect in particular because one weakness I had sometimes heard from some of your earlier works is noodling in the wrong key or with sour notes, but here? It's chef's kiss good. The only real question I asked was why that stretch from the 2-minute mark to 2:30 sounded so melodically empty with just the pad work between source sections - but it's just highly minor of a thought. The sound selection is fun and reflective of the 80s/90s Yamaha softsynth tones, so while I understand Larry's concerns about quantization, these kinds of backing parts and the percussion needed to sound less organic to maintain a stable mix. The sweeps and envelopes on the pad at the tail ends sounded great, the guitar is clear, and this soundscape feels very fulfilling despite its moments of minimalism and my wanting to hear more arpeggios for the sake of filling a rhythm section (be careful if you go that route in the future though!). That drum kit should've had its overall reverb brought down a touch, though, or at least on the kick to make sure it didn't bleed too much into the bass - but the snare and toms still needed that verb for genre-relevant effects, so it was still a solid call nonetheless. Great prog energy, fun arrangement, solid production values - let's get this on board. YES
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