Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9036 I thought the judges who voted on this weren't really telling me the same things, so I think I need some more feedback to get a better idea about what needs to be improved in this mix. Please comment. http://home.student.uu.se/dahe9761/PureTen.mp3 In response to the critisism: The remixer name is pronounced like "Fighter Pilot". It's just spelled funny. Blame my teenage past self. The guitar isn't supposed to sound "ultra-mechanical", but I also did nothing to make it sound real. I thought the people who heard this song would think "wow, those are nice guitar samples", not "wow, that's a well played guitar". May it be I can't make it sound better, but I never intended for anyone to believe it was real - I wanted it to sound mechanical, similar to the guitar in Boomfunk MC's "Freestyler", for example. But this is just for the into / outro parts - I wanted it to sound more real for the main theme, where I think you're right about it being pushed back a little too much. As for the snare, I personally liked it. I wonder what kind of snare you'd prefer here, and if it's something I can fix using EQ or if it's the sample you don't like. I actually gave the snare individual reverb that the rest of the drum kit didn't get just to get the right sound for it. But the pattern is a little boring, I'll give you that. As for giving the drums more punch, do you mean, like, "Zircon punch" (I'd love to hear Cpt Falcon say that in Smash Bros) or just a little? I let Zircon listen to this song while I was waiting for people to vote on it and he didn't mention giving the drums more punch as far as I can remember (and he makes notoriously punchy drums). The strings at 2:00 seem to be cut off halfway through their sample and are a little dry and loud, maybe that's what makes them sound fake. The overall level could be boosted, yes. I just need to put a limiter on the drums to get rid of those notches, or they'll be clipping all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrypnyk Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Not Found The requested URL /PureTen.mp3 was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Yeah, sorry about that. I'll update the first post when the host starts working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Try that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrypnyk Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Wow this is pretty sweet. From what the judges are saying, is that what you have is pretty good, they just want it better. The overall mastering is a little on the flat end. The drums feel pretty thin with no real punch, no real oomph in sound to them. The acoustic guitar in the middle tends to get hidden behind the electric guitar in the middle of the song. Better strings samples could be used for 1:59 (though personally, they didn't bother me). At 2:41, your kick is barely noticeable. So yea, this is pretty bad ass. Going back and replacing a couple of things, and mastering everything else to give it some oomph, and this should be a shoe in. Dave Wise did the soundtrack for R.C. Pro-Am??? WTF?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Dave Wise has done the soundtrack for pretty much every game that Rare has ever made, at least up until 1994. Just look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wise Hehe. Great guy, isn't he? I wonder what he'd say about this mix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 My impression is that they're milking you. They aren't mistaken, the drums ARE weak, but they know you can bring the cheese to the table and so they're pushing you--that's my best guess. Here's what I suggest--make damn sure that you're not mixing this on some headphones or monitors that have an absurd bass response because you might just be mixing the bass/tenor levels too low. You might also want to try taking a little break--start listening to some good music, if need be, pro music that sounds like what you're going for--let the EQ fill you, become one with what you want it to sound like... reapproach your mix. Solid arrangement, man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Yeah this is pretty damn good and almost there as far as what I think the judges look for. I do agree that the guitar is pretty obviously sequenced, but it is pretty good samples. I suggest running a super light overdrive over the intro part (not the strums, those sound great) and very slightly alter the velocities to give them more irregularities. Also maybe detune them slightly, about 2 cents worth. The guitars in the middle are fine, IMO. WARNING: I am still pretty much a drum n00b, and spend more time flailing than anything really; take this advice at your own risk: For your drums, what I suggest is to is to take the tracks you currently have, double them, and then shape and compress the hell out of the duplicate. Though my drums aren't near as crazy as the ZIRCON PUNCH (SHOW ME YOUR GROOVES!), maybe hearing what I do can give you some ideas. I usually have three seperate parts for bass drum, one for the high frequency attack or 'click', one for the boom (80-300hz.. careful and don't boost 250 too much or its going to get crazy muddy), and one for sub bass or stuff you don't hear but feel (usually a electronic bass drum. if you mix it right, it'll still sound like an acoustic bass drum, but have a good kick.) for the boom and click, roll off 50hz and below so you have more leeway with volume. Bring the overall bass drum sound up though. For snare, I duplicate the snare and shape the second one. I'd roll off the low end, sub 100hz and boost your snare around 5k. If you still arent getting enough snap, layer in a handclap and have it sitting just underneath the snare so it's not really audible on it's own. Your snare sounds pretty good though, a little more snap to it and it's good. Other than that, it seems the track is a little quiet; i've been comparing it to some of my stuff, which is pretty low on the RMS scale and it's even quieter, so a volume boost is in order I think. Arrangementwise this is frickin sweet, I completely love what you've done to the source. I hope I am being helpful here, let me know if there's anything else I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Wow, how do you get to know all that stuff about EQ? Do you think you could show me an exampe? No offense, but I don't recall the drums in your Phoenix Wright mix to be particularily punchy. Also, how do I know my headphones / monitors don't have an "absurd" bass response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I don't think the snare needs a boost at 5khz--it needs more tenor, a needle isn't punchy, a fist is. If you give your snare a bit more tenor then it'll give it a larger space in the spectrum and it'll sound bigger. The majority of consumer-grade computer speakers and headphones have a lot of bass boost built in, in which case you might be over compensating when mixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Wow, how do you get to know all that stuff about EQ? Do you think you could show me an exampe? No offense, but I don't recall the drums in your Phoenix Wright mix to be particularily punchy. Just bits and pieces i've picked up. Like my warning said, I am still a total n00b, but i'm always trying to get better. Bugging various people about mixing and stuff; some DJs I know, judges, friends, etc. And my PW mix was finished and submitted almost 11 months ago, so i've picked up a little since then. An example is a mix I can't publicly link yet until our project is released, but check your PMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 None of the judges said anything about bass boosting, did they? The cool thing about well-made drums though is that even if you turn the bass off the kick drum still has an amazing oomph. About the snare drum, I still don't know what was LT's problem with it. He said it "sticks out like a sore thumb", which I guess means he thought it was really bad, as out of place as if I'd used a trance clap instead of a rock snare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Your kit sounds tinny on my phones (Sony MDR7506s) For fun, try recording your kit on a separate audio track and give it a little boost around 600hz down to 80hz, tapering off, bring it a little more forward in the mix, but not too much--treat it lightly, like you're handling a small baby filled with nitro-gl... ...you get the idea. Be gentle with it because it's already decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJT Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 i listened to this on the panel but didn't get around to voting. my bad. give me a day and i'll have some constructive feedback for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 Great. Can't wait to hear it. 3 votes in 3 months is... well, you'd expect more. [judgehate related to slow voting process] BGC writes: And like every other submission I've voted on, let me apologize to the remixer for such a ridiculously long time to get the voting process done. Busy and preoccupied as we may be, there's little to no excuse for our votes taking so long to come out.And yet, inexcusable as it may be, it keeps happening. [more removed judgehate] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJT Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The guitar isn't supposed to sound "ultra-mechanical", but I also did nothing to make it sound real. I thought the people who heard this song would think "wow, those are nice guitar samples", not "wow, that's a well played guitar". May it be I can't make it sound better, but I never intended for anyone to believe it was real - I wanted it to sound mechanical, similar to the guitar in Boomfunk MC's "Freestyler", for example. My advice would be to decide whether you want your guitar sounding mechanical or sounding realistic...its the fact that you toe the line that is so distracting. I'm guessing you'd prefer people to be thinking "that's a cool sounding guitar line" as opposed to "is that guitar supposed to sound real or fake?" The former draws people into the music while the latter separates them from it. The other main problem I have is with the middle section, where that acoustic guitar line gets swallowed up by the orchestra. It's a little muddy, and at times I'm unsure of what's supposed to be in the foreground and what's supposed to be supporting material. Also, I agree with the criticisms that the snare sounds a little thin for the genre. It's not neccesarilly a deal-breaker for me, but it does sound a little out of place. In the end, my biggest impression is that when I listen to this remix, I'm spending more time thinking about the production choices you've made, and less time appreciating the arrangement.. It's a good arrangement. It's also cool sounding, at parts. You should be proud of what you have already. You'll just need to address the criticisms that have been made if you want it posted on OCR. As much as I'd love to flame you for the content of your last post, I'm too tired right now. I'll just say that if you want to call out individual judges, the WIP forums are not the place to do it. Take it up via PM. If David Lloyd's personal website isn't running fast enough for your taste, then feel free to start your own. You wouldn't be the first. Lastly...I want you to know that I really do like this remix. You're a great musician, and it'd be a shame if you didn't spend some more time tightening the screws on it. That's it for me. -jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 As much as I'd love to flame you for the content of your last post, I'm too tired right now. I'll just say that if you want to call out individual judges, the WIP forums are not the place to do it. Take it up via PM. If David Lloyd's personal website isn't running fast enough for your taste, then feel free to start your own. You wouldn't be the first. You're right - there's no point in even bringing it up. Just couldn't resist. And yes, I shouldn't have called anyone out individually - editing previous post. So the snare is "thin for the genre"? That's a lot more precise - thank you. I wonder if this is what Larry meant though. You also bring up several issues that others already have, which is good, because then I get a better idea about what parts need to be fixed, so I don't go fixing things that were really fine but that someone had a personal opinion about. Keep the comments coming, I'd like to know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The sound was also generic. I've heard that exact drum sound way too many times, so when it doesn't fit right, I notice. I couldn't articulate what felt off about the drum tone before, but Jon's right about the drums. He also had good points about the guitar sequencing. Listen to Ryo Lion's "Dignity Ark" and try to figure out why something like that sounds a lot better. It's obviosuly sequenced, and sounds mechanical, but the sequencing is more nuanced to deliver a relatively smoother sound that doesn't sound so robotic. You're right - there's no point in even bringing it up. Just couldn't resist. And yes, I shouldn't have called anyone out individually - editing previous post. Damn, I missed the HATE! Haven't had any in a while. Don't look at me taking awhile to judge it. I voted QUICKZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 I know you did. You just didn't nag enough. I'll listen to that other song and also try to fix the snare... less generic, less thin. Do you think you could tell me a song here on ocr that's roughly the same genre but that uses a better snare? Just to give me a better idea about where I should be going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ok, this is what I had after poking around a little with compressors. I think it sounds worse now. I suck. Can anyone help me? http://www.ngst.nu/rcproam_resub.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 You could always pay us--then maybe I'd be more inclined to take more time away from my wife and hobbies to evaluate submissions. Yes, we're slow. We know that. We're working to improve it. But dude, we're still VOLUNTEERING for this stuff. Give us a break. We're all human. We do our best, and OCR is growing all the time. We have a lot of stuff to keep up with. Life is not a constant thing. I truly wish there were 48 hours in the day, so I could vote more. But just please, bear with us. And kindly refrain from jdghate if at all possible. Great. Can't wait to hear it. 3 votes in 3 months is... well, you'd expect more.[judgehate related to slow voting process] BGC writes: And yet, inexcusable as it may be, it keeps happening. [more removed judgehate] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted September 7, 2007 Author Share Posted September 7, 2007 I'm past that post, sorry about that. Right now I just need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJT Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 You could always pay us--then maybe I'd be more inclined to take more time away from my wife and hobbies to evaluate submissions. Call off your dogs, Jimmy. David, I'll take a look at this when I've got a moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannthr Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I tried to help, G, but if there's serious criticism about the snare, bro, you haven't done much to it. Did you even try out re eq'ing the snare? You just need to give it more phat--bass in the right place will hook you up with a thicker sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Think so? The reason I haven't done anything about it is I didn't know what was wrong with it in the first place. I'll try bass boosting it as you suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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