DarkCecil13 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Ninja Gaiden 'Death of a Legend' I have to admit, I don't remember this song from Ninja Gaiden. It's been so long, though. Nevertheless, this is one hell of an orchestral piece. It starts off beautifully with a windy instrument and some well done harps. Soon after, horns and strings are introduced. At about 1:02, beautiful chromatic bells (or something) are introduced. Soon after at about 1:32, you will be surprised. That's all to say. It threw me off, but it really made me feel like that a conflict of some sort was brought upon. It has that mood of conflict. This is proved at 1:57. I really love how this mix builds. At 2:26, everything drops out to low strings and bells. Soon after, the harp and flute take place again as in the introductory parts. Overall, a stunning mix. Russell Cox did an excellent arranging a piece from Ninja Gaiden into an orchestral style. Nothing I'd ever expect. Regardless, it's well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainflo Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I would describe most of this song as being emotionally powerful. Anybody who has experienced the song originally during the game may feel similarly. Without the listener's mental/emotional attachment to the game the song could loose much of its strength. Russel Cox has created a wonderful orchestral composition considering the given material (the original song, Requiem) is a mere 22 seconds repeated to make 44 seconds, total. This is the second remix I have heard to correctly resurrect the essence of Ninja Gaiden. Job well done, but there is always room for improvement--I can only hope to hear it in your future Gaiden remixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappy Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I liked the song, but that's not why I'm posting -- I'm here to say that the reason nobody recognizes this song is because it's from the end of the game. And considering the fact that Ninja Gaiden was probably one of the hardest games in the history of mankind, probably the only people who are going to recognize this song are people like me who cheated to beat the game. Anyway, I've heard an alternate (presumably earlier) version of this track from VGMix, and although I know it's unfair to compare a finished song with a work in progress, I actually like the other version a little better. There's a sort of march-like section of the other version that I wish Russell Cox had left in. It was my favorite part of the song. But this version is still very good. I'll be keeping both versions, no doubt. But I agree with djp, the gratuitous key changes are a little grating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilbert627 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Anyway, I've heard an alternate (presumably earlier) version of this track from VGMix, and although I know it's unfair to compare a finished song with a work in progress, I actually like the other version a little better. There's a sort of march-like section of the other version that I wish Russell Cox had left in. It was my favorite part of the song. But this version is still very good. I'll be keeping both versions, no doubt. But I agree with djp, the gratuitous key changes are a little grating. Yeah, I had the VGMix version as well, and I agree that it's a better mix, mainly because it's without those very odd key changes. Still, otherwise good stuff as usual from Russell, who has mad orchestral skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGMLuva Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 ***** / 5! Great title selection - It fits perfectly like a lock and key. Do any of you notice that this song sounds like the theme song from Romeo+Juliet? Anyways, i've been waiting for a mix like this from Ninja Gaiden for a long time and now that it has been remixed...I love it alot.Keep up the good work everyone and you too Cox! I haven't heard the VGMix of this version before...can anyone direct link it to me? I'd like to listen to it. Lastly, Ninja Gaiden is just too damn good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Very nice quality, nice stuff going on in here. Almost a perfect peice...sept for some of those BAD transition. The key change wasn't that bad for me..changed the mood. But, this isn't your best work. Still good though. Good Job! Gman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senescence Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I vaguely remember having the VGMix version of this and I really didn't care for it. I also hardly remember the end of Ninja Gaiden 1. I beat it last year (cheating I think), and this song wasn't one of the games most memorable tones if you ask me. I'm not sure why not, but I'm not exactly catching these 'off' key changes either, it all seems to flow reasonably well to me. This mix is a little better than the one that I remember from VGMix. I don't really care too much for this mix though, I think another more memorable selection from Ninja Gaiden would have been a better idea. I'm not bashing this mix by any means, I'm just saying that your skills would have been better used on a different track. This remix is decent, but not what I was expecting when I clicked on the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilHorde Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I´ve never been good with orchestral elements. Russel seems to have that area covered pretty damn well. This remix has great sounds and athmosphere. Just beautiful. It sounds like a real orchestra and would go great with an athmospheric title screen from some movie. Just great. Too bad I haven´t heard the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetsusan Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I didn't love those key changes, but I don't think they aren't that bad either. If there is something to be improved, it is the transition from one idea to the other - the links between two sections. Anyway, I think everybody will agree that the orchestration is astonishing. It sounds like a real movie soundtrack (I actually remembered "Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves" and "The Last of Mohicans" when listening to this track for the first time). As many excelent tracks in OverClocked (the recent "Super Mario Bros. 3 aquacadence OC ReMix" comes imediatly to mind), it is not a true remix - it's an arrangement. I don't mean it should be removed - I would KILL anybody who dared to suggest it! So, as I have said above, it is impressive and very well-done, but the links are a bit weak. But I'm sure I'm going to listen to it many and many times! Gustavo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-77x Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Ohhhhh man! Am i a sucker for Orchestrated music... This song is great! i really liked the song you picked from the game, even though i havent played it. I think that this song shows that there doesnt need to be a lead in for a key change. I think its perfect the way it is. Composed really good, good soundfonts/samples. I recommend it to anyone who likes Orchestrated music. Like Tetsusan said, it isnt really a REMIX, its an arangement. But even DJP said that it should be called Overclocked Arrangement and not Overclocked Remix, but thats for a later date to be discussed... Great Work, ill expect more high quality arangements like this at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion303 Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 "Bad transitions"? Not all classical music follows strict guidelines for key changes. Try listening to anything at all from the Romantic era (Mahler, Stravinsky, Schubert, et. al.) This is typical awesome Russell Cox fare. -steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainflo Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I liked the song, but that's not why I'm posting -- I'm here to say that the reason nobody recognizes this song is because it's from the end of the game. And considering the fact that Ninja Gaiden was probably one of the hardest games in the history of mankind, probably the only people who are going to recognize this song are people like me who cheated to beat the game. Spoken like a cheater. How dare you insult gamers of true skill and intelligence. I was hoping no one would reveal the song's place in Ninja Gaiden in hopes that it would not ruin the experience for some, but oh well. Just because you cheated doesn't mean you have to right it by feeling you are among the pathetic majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainflo Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 "Bad transitions"?Not all classical music follows strict guidelines for key changes. Try listening to anything at all from the Romantic era (Mahler, Stravinsky, Schubert, et. al.) You may be right about the key changes of classical music, but what does that have to do with the Ninja Gaiden remix? It's orchestral, not classical--right? I thought classical music was specifically FROM the Romantic Era, not music LIKE that in the Romantic Era. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetsusan Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 You may be right about the key changes of classical music, but what does that have to do with the Ninja Gaiden remix? It's orchestral, not classical--right? I thought classical music was specifically FROM the Romantic Era, not music LIKE that in the Romantic Era. Am I wrong? What Legion303 said is: "classical music has a lot of 'weird' (i.e., unexpected) key changes, so we shouldn't blame Russell for that". Of course I know some Classical music. Of course I know they could change from a key to a very distant one - and "the romantics" did not discover this at all; listen to any Scarlatti sonata and you will know what I'm talking about (assuming you don't know Scarlatti, which would be such a pitty - he's lovely!). But this doesn't mean at all I have to admit any key change the remixer/arranger tries out. I personally didn't like some key changes in that track - although I shurely enjoyed the remix as a whole. Gustavo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappy Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I liked the song, but that's not why I'm posting -- I'm here to say that the reason nobody recognizes this song is because it's from the end of the game. And considering the fact that Ninja Gaiden was probably one of the hardest games in the history of mankind, probably the only people who are going to recognize this song are people like me who cheated to beat the game. Spoken like a cheater. How dare you insult gamers of true skill and intelligence. I was hoping no one would reveal the song's place in Ninja Gaiden in hopes that it would not ruin the experience for some, but oh well. Just because you cheated doesn't mean you have to right it by feeling you are among the pathetic majority. Hah. This is hardly the place for this, but I don't see how, by explaining why nobody recognizes the track, I am insulting anyone's intelligence, or ruining the experience for them. Both DarkCecil and djp were stumped, so it's hardly common knowledge. As for being a cheater... hey, the game was too hard. I wanted to see the end of the game. Deal with it. And I'm sure there were plenty of people just like me who weren't able to beat this game. The fact that several people didn't recognize this track is evidence enough. But we're all so proud of you that you beat it on your own, good for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 "Bad transitions"?Not all classical music follows strict guidelines for key changes. Try listening to anything at all from the Romantic era (Mahler, Stravinsky, Schubert, et. al.) This is typical awesome Russell Cox fare. -steve Been there, done that, got the T-shit. Prefer Tchaikovsky, Wagner and Dvorak from that period, myself, but to your point: I'm not one to deem almost any transition as "wrong" technically, but "bad" is different from "wrong" and that's more where I was headed. Even if something is "acceptable" within a given genre, era, what have you, it still needs to work musically, and this felt abrupt and, as noted, forced. Everyone should be well aware I'm a big Russell Cox fan, but I also calls 'em like I seens 'em, and I wouldn't equate someone saying something is bad with them saying it's wrong, as one is subjective and the other usually implies objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainflo Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hah. This is hardly the place for this, but I don't see how, by explaining why nobody recognizes the track, I am insulting anyone's intelligence, or ruining the experience for them. It was not your comment about who recognized the track that was insulting, it was, "probably the only people who are going to recognize this song are people like me who cheated to beat the game." There is an obvious negative connotation in the statement that proposes a positive correlation between recognizing the song and cheating. Both DarkCecil and djp were stumped, so it's hardly common knowledge. DarkCecil and DJ Pretzel are two individuals--they do not embody the majority. Because they know or do not know something does not indicate that most people should or should not know it also. And I'm sure there were plenty of people just like me who weren't able to beat this game. The fact that several people didn't recognize this track is evidence enough. No, it is not evidence enough because it's not evidence at all. But we're all so proud of you that you beat it on your own, good for you. I never said I did or didn't beat the game on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tetsusan Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 I was thinking on this subject, remembering my several attempts to beat that game, and here's my conclusion: Ninja Gaiden is a difficult game, but its challenge is not adding. As I've written somewhere else in this forum, it's greatest challenge is to jump some holes without being hit by a craven - or a bat, or an eagle, or a missile, or a knife, or... One can name a dozen NES games just as difficult as it (Battletoads, Castlevania, Bart vs. the Space Mutants, MegaMan 3) which are much more rewarding. To my taste, if you remove the movie sequences, the music and the fact the main character is a ninja (we all love ninjas!), the game itself - i.e., the challenges, the stages, the bosses - is not a big deal. Even the movie sequences, which were astonishing for their time, just reveal a silly and unappealing story. And even keeping in mind the NES limited graphic devices, one can just laugh at those enemies - specially the box fighter and the guy with a purple baseball bat! That's my 2 cents. Gustavo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdave Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 erg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainflo Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Well, tetsusan (Gustavo), we hold extremely different opinions about Ninja Gaiden I see. I loved it. I don't recall asking your opinion of the game, however.. In any case, I really have nothing more to say regarding the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdave Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Uh, its "set up us" not "set us up", and I'd have to disagree with DJpretzel's review apart from All Your Base syntax. The transitions were fine to me, only real noticeable because of Pretzel's comment. I think Pretzel has a tendency to pick on really small things when he listens to remixes, and focus a little too much on them in the reviews. Maybe the key changes could have been done a tad better, but there was absolutely nothiing wrong with em. I mean i know Pretzel wasn't hating, but tone of the review seemed a little too critical of the transitiion. I dont think anyone "set up us the keychange" Again, "set up us" is the correct all your base reference. "Set us up" is correct english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veovis Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 It seems that DJ pretzel played this one down a bit, but I have to disagree with him. The song is a welcome difference to the techno beats, and is done beautifully. The transitions are awesome, and the song is soothing and cool. I'd like to hear more of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty B. Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I loved this remix, but I tend to agree with DJPretzel about the key change at 1'31". It kinda broadsided me. The other key changes were led into nicely. Overall I really dug this remix. This is almost exactly how I would envision a modern remake to sound like. Kudos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan8bit Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Nice to see it was actually different than the one at vgmix. And someone said it sounded like Romeo & Juliet. Yes, it is very similar, as I said before and was ignored, and I wonder if the original composer just borrowed the tune. One thing that kind of bothered me was how one of the notes was kind of changed... the first three notes of the song (I thought) weren't the same length, (not all quarters or whatnot), but rather a quarter, a quarter-and-a-half, and then an eigth. It definitely made the song, but perhaps it was Russell's intention to take it out for a more orchestral piece; the notes I suggested might be better suited to a sort of slow rock, which the original does do. And one question about certain string samples: Is it always appropriate for sequential notes (the kind played more rapidly) to have a volume swell from the start? To me, it just sounds a bit off. Other than that, I think this was a decent mix, although I was hoping for something more from Russell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marduk Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Sounds like it belongs on the Kenshin OVA; this is great orchestral work. Strongly evokes emotion, somber yet stirring. Like the death of a Legend. Good Stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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