Okay, maybe there's a way to help out us total n00bs

[The Pezman]

So I read Naroo's thread and got to thinking. As some of you may know, I've been hanging out here for a long time trying to learn to remix from the ground up, and it's slow going. Why is this? Largely because no support appears to exist for those who are literally just starting out. I mean, I still don't know, for example, how to map a MIDI track I just imported to a synth and have it play (in Reason), since it appears to create its own Combinator patch and doesn't want to be mapped anywhere else.

That question on its own can (and will, I imagine) be answered fairly quickly and easily, but it's a small part of my larger problem. The remixing forums already assume you basically know what you're doing and need to know specific things in your question to create DA MUZICKS. The rest of us, on the other hand, run into trouble trying to do much beyond soundfont assignment (and even then, as I've explained, it's not always perfect).

That's not to say I haven't tried to learn. I've poked around in Reason and FL Studio. But, as has been the case with every program I've ever investigated, poking around doesn't do me a lot of good. I don't learn well without structure or direction. Thus, aimless wheels and button clicks do not lead me to accomplish much. That's what leads to threads like the one Naroo made: you've got so much staring you in the face you don't know where to start. Tutorials, by the way, are fairly limited in their scope and seem to only teach you the basic basics.

So how can we bridge this gap? To get people who have no idea what they're doing to a point where they're capable enough to do most things themselves but be able to ask specific questions?

Tell us how you wrote a given remix. That's right, from bottom to top. Starting from the MIDI you imported or composed all the way up to the fine tuning, mastering and decision to submit.

I think a step-by-step explanation will be very good. Like this one on Youtube... except incorporating everything else that would be needed in order to get accepted onto OCR.

Now what will this do for us n00b mixers? On its own, not a terrible amount. It will teach us how to twist knobs, apply effects and voila! We'll end up with a mix that's already been created. But if we read more than one we'll start to get a better understanding of how the process works from person to person, be able to abstract general trends and ideas out of specific techniques, processes and programs. If I, for example, could see (not just hear about) how Tweek created his stuttering effect for his D&B mixes, then I could replicate it but then build on it and inject my own ideas into the process (if you don't like this example please don't argue about it). Basically, I want to stand on the shoulders of giants (as it were) as I learn and develop my own effects, tricks, and voice in this computer music world.

[Lunahorum]

agreed.

And no more telling us noobs to google it damn it.

[OverCoat]

I kind of agree!

I haven't seen a lot of support for new people lately.

The best thing I can say right now is ask for help on IRC That's what I did when I was just starting out and it's a much more instantaneous learning process, way better than sitting on a messageboard all day.

I hope the people in #ocremix are still somewhat helpful... Though there's a #ocrwip right now, isn't there? That might work out great for you.

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

maybe a future project. im wary tho, this would take a fair bit of effort.

is this assuming that people already have a basic knowledge of how to get around the program or should we explain "This is a channel, blahblahblah. This is the mixer, this is the step sequencer..."

?

I remember making a "makeasong" .flp project file where I explained using an automated Fruity Notebook how I went about doing some stuff. Not very indepth, and very outdated and kind of noob. I guess you could PM me if you -really- wanted to see it.

Keep in mind that, while "standing on the shoulders of giants" is totally fine, and, IMHO, encouraged, at SOME point you're probably either going to need to, or at least -want- to delve into completely new territory. And I don't just mean "building on an existing idea that you've learned", i mean something totally new.

other than that, this is a pretty cool idea.

[Skrypnyk]

See, while I do understand where a few of you are coming from, and I don't mind the odd question of something like 'how do you setup sidechaining in FL?', it's when people (and yea, I am looking at you) create a new thread for every single question under the god damn sun about this that and everything else. Especially when the answer can be given if you just fucking google it for 5 minutes. That's why google was invented.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are trying to figure something out (say, automate the tempo in FL), and you have no clue how to do that, and you played around for a couple of hours trying to figure something out yet nothings working, and you check the (INCLUDED) .flp of other people songs and demos and tutorials and still can't figure out how to do it (or figure out how they did it), and you searched google for 10 minutes to see if there's a solution there and for some crazy-ass reason no one on this planet ever decided to ask that question, then fine, ask away. Just don't complain if someone (i.e. me) rips your spine out because they found the answer on the second link when they googled it.

Perhaps I'm being too much of a prick here. I just don't like having the feeling that people spend all of 2 minutes trying to figure something out, can't, and so they'll post a topic here knowing that someone has to help them. Or even when people spend 0 minutes trying to figure something out, they just wanna know what program is great for making beats and how you use that program to make beats.

I agree with soc, in that if you have a question, and walk into #ocrwip at the right time (when it's active), people will help you, that's why that channel was created. (Unless it was created so GSlicer can feel important or smth)

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

there's also this underlying sense of "well, if =I= figured this stuff out on my own, why can't X person do the same? It's only fair!"

I understand that different people learn differently, and that's fine, but the feeling is still there sometimes, you know what I mean?

[Tensei]

Tell us how you wrote a given remix. That's right, from bottom to top. Starting from the MIDI you imported or composed all the way up to the fine tuning, mastering and decision to submit.

I think this is a good idea, and if you don't mind I would love to give insight in the creation of my most recent mix (even though bla bla no posted remixer yet, etc). I used a MIDI sequencer, FL Studio and Reason in the creation process, and I put a lot of thought into the drum sequencing and processing, so I think it would definitely be helpful if I gave a step by step walkthrough through the creation process. Here's the end result by the way

I do think it would be better if a lot of other remixers would take the trouble to do a similar 'walkthrough' since after all, no-one does everything the same way, and it could be helpful for veterans too.

PILOT EPISODE

VVVV

[Tensei]

I'm going to be assuming in this tutorial that you've already messed around with a few sequencers and DAWs, you have access to some 'decent' VSTs and soundfonts to help you out, you know some basic theory about harmony, melody, scales and the like (possibly the ability to read notes), and you know at least partially what I mean with words like "Chorus, Compressor, Delay, Parametric EQ". If not, then I encourage you to look through the tutorials in your DAW so you know at least the very basics.

As a final note: Due to the midi sequencer I'm using you're either going to have to be able to read notation or guitar tablature to keep track of what I'm doing. I will be adding sound files for your convenience though

The right track for the job

I'm pretty sure this point may differ VERY much from mixer to mixer, nevertheless I think there's one 'rule' that pretty much everyone should adhere to: ONLY REMIX THE SONGS YOU LIKE! It's easy as that. I think the problem that so many projects are progressing that slowly is because people want to get in on it, so they quickly pick what's left, and don't even listen if the song is workable for them.

And yes, even though it's good to be able to adapt to material you might not find very enjoying, I think by far the best results come from the nostalgic songs you can still remember today, even though you played the game where you heard them years ago.

What I look for in a remixable song is a catchy hook, since I tend to be a very melody-based listener. In the concrete song I'm remixing in this tutorial (Cave Story - Last Battle)The bassline during the intro is a dead giveaway for me; it's extremely catchy, and it has a sort of ominous build-up quality because of the rising melody. Another part I like is the melody backed by the chromatically descending chords that comes in exactly half-way. Overall there are no arrangemental sore spots for me, and EVERY part of the source seems quite viable to incorporate in the remix, which makes this a very good source.

Of course this is a very subjective question, and you might not like this source at all, but still; whenever more than 50% of a source seems memorable to you, it should be a viable source. Nobody is expecting you to incorporate the ENTIRE source, but 50% should be a bare minimum.

After picking a viable source, it's time to go midi-hunting on a site like VGmusic.com. Whether to use a midi as a basis or not is a question of personal preference. Avoid doing it because of laziness; if you think something's too much work to do at THIS early point, you can just as well give up. If it means transcribing the source by ear, definitely go for it, since it will give you a great opportunity to change around the melodies and harmonies while you're at it.

In this case I chose for using a midi as a basis because I wanted to keep the source's structure in tact, and I DEFINITELY wanted to retain that wicked bassline from the intro (as well as most other melodies). By now, you should already have started planning and have some musical idea's in your head, and you should have decided on a musical genre for the mix.

Structure, concept, etc.

For your first mix, pick a genre that is EASY, keep in mind your restrictions in terms of theoretical knowledge and the capabilities of your DAW and VSTi's. Don't bother trying to do something orchestral or classical just yet (unless you're a composer with EWQLSO, and good knowledge of orchestration, and if that's the case, why the hell are you reading this? Well, except if your forumname is Bustatunez of course ).

By far the best thing is when you play a live instrument (electric guitar?), and you tend to play a lot of stuff from a certain genre (Garage Rock, Thrash Metal?), in which case you should be QUITE aware of the conventions of that genre (i.e. What sounds right). Besides that, you'll be aware of the capabilities of your instrument and how to have it play a convincing role in the context of the rest of the mix.

As for song structure, try to start with whatever arrangemental idea comes to mind first, even if it's an idea for the chorus or verse of the song; you can build your intro and other stuff up around that later, since it's way easier to do that if you have a steady base to fall back to. If it makes it easier for you, it's perfectly alright to take one of your favorite songs in the genre and use it as a model for yours.

Arrangemental hospital

Right, let's cut the crap and get to work.

I'll go pretty in-depth into the intro because it has the most complicated drum patterns of the whole song, but I won't go into the other sections that much since they're all basically built-up the same way as the intro.

We can start with the intro right away, since we have the bassline from the source. The source tune is quite fast and short (a bit more than a minute at 190 BPM), so we'll have to elongate some parts, because 190 BPM is quite a useful tempo for the genre we're aiming for (Extreme Power Metal), so we're keeping that the same. We'll extend the original 8-bar intro to a nice sixteen bars. The bassline remains the same, except it now gets repeated 4 times instead of twice.

Our 4-bar bassline from the source tune. (click for sound)

Of course, the downside of this artificial 'elongation' is that the intro would become a bit too repetitive if it didn't have any development, but we'll leave that role to the synth and drums. We'll also have to keep in mind that the bass isn't meant as a lead instrument, yet it plays the main melody here, so it could give us some complications during the mixing if the other instruments parts would get too complicated.

The next part is easy for me; we have to add a chord backing, made up of rhythm guitars. I don't apply any theory here, I just mess around on my guitar to figure out some nice chords to back up the bassline. I've kept the phrasing (just open chords) this simple to prevent the guitars from drawing the attention away from the bassline.

These are the chords I came up with. It's quite a cliched progression, but we can argue that Power Metal is a cheesy genre, so it's all good.

Note that I've used inversions of typical power chords to emulate a seven-string guitar for a heavier sound.

Now, for the hardest part, the drums. I could write a whole book about drums, and I could spend the better part of today writing just about the basics, but I won't. For the sake of my own sanity I'll just assume whoever reads this knows every different part of the drum kit (in terms of sound, name and function) and already is able to make his own drum patterns to some degree. If not, please find a tutorial somewhere, look on wikipedia, experiment with making rock drum patterns, then come back and read this.

Drums are usually vastly underestimated in the whole context of a mix, and it happens all too often people just come up with a boring one/two-bar pattern and loop it throughout the entire mix. My personal philosophy on drums is that besides driving on the song, they should act as a mood-setter, and vary between 'laid-back' and 'intensive' to accent different parts of a song. Of course, a little virtuosity never killed anybody, so you should feel free to act like your virtual drummer is the best one in the world (though he should still be human!) and give him some jaw-dropping fills and drum solo's to work with.

It would be way too much work to analyze the drum patterns I did in the intro, so I'll just give a brief overview; The patterns are seemingly very random/chaotic, with lots of fills and accents on the bassline until bar ten (where you get the snare+crash cymbal playing on the beat), which sort of has the purpose of setting a steady groove and giving a sense of development.

At this point you should already be worrying about the humanization of the drums; add snare rolls, bass-drum rolls, flams, cymbal chokes. The way to really get a feel for this is to listen a LOT to bands with good drummers, and focus on the fills and drum patterns the guy uses.

I'm sorry I can't give more than these pointers on drums, but to me the whole drum sequencing process is just very intuitive and it's hard to put it into words and analyze it. I think it's best to illustrate the importance of good drum sequencing by posting two examples of the intro:

One with what I consider well-sequenced drums

and One with a copy+pasted single bar pattern

Finally, the synth. Typical Synth strings are more rule than exception in Scandinavian Metal, so if you want to go in that direction, adding some sustained chords is a great way to achieve the archetypical epic scandinavian vibe. There's really not a lot to be said about the synth strings in the intro, they play another cheesy chord progression in a very nervous staccato rhythm until the crucial bar ten, where they start playing whole note sustained chords. Again, sense of development in an intro that would otherwise be very repetitive because of the guitar chords and bassline.

Complete Intro with Synth Strings

Ok, so I think that's enough for now, if anyone liked it I can write a follow-up detailing the rest of the arrangement, and maybe after that get to the production, consider this a pilot episode

[anosou]

Okay I'm in.

*starts writing*

EDIT: Okay I'm out.

*stops writing*

I still suppor thist though, it's just that I have a very special way of remixing. I just play my keyboard until it sounds good. Doubt that'll help anyone.

[Wiesty]

As for learning to use the programs such as FLstudio,Cubase,ProTools etc, that just takes playing around. They usually come with a manual file which is really good for just searching up whatever your confused about.

As for writing a re-mix, this is usually how i do it.

1) Listen to your source song,a SHIT load of times, so that your totally familiar with it.

2)In your head, come up with any variations you think sound good with the song. Think in regards to syncopation (beats lining up), style, genre, instrumentation.

For example, I'd like to remix Secret of the Forest from Chrono Trigger. I'm going to emphasize the beats like such, 1+2+3+4 (This is just a general beat rhythm, don't forget to variate it.) The song will have a Latin style with a hint of trip hop in it. Instruments will be Electric bass, sequenced sounding drums, classical guitar, bongos, some synth or reed instrument, maybe an accordion.

3)Now that you have the song generally down, it's time to start writing. Some people like to write everything before they start, but I tend to build my songs from maybe 30 seconds of ideas. So start laying down your basic drum pattern in your sequencer, followed by a simple bass line. From there you have to start thinking of your intro, middle, end etc.

4) Once you have somewhat of a song laid down, its time to refine. Listen to it for any obviously bad sounding stuff and change them. After that, be nit picky with everything in regards to tone, effect, modal quality. In this stage, make sure you variate the drums to give them a realistic sound, unless your not going for one.

5)Now its time for your final Master, which is just going over what you have, cranking up levels, equalizing, getting everything up to standard.

6)Your done. Submit to the panel and pray for mercy from Liontamer and co.

Anyways. There are a thousand ways to remix a song, so in no sense do you have to go by mine. Whatever works, use it. Hope this helped.

[Lunahorum]

tensei san is the man. Thanks

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

nice work, guys.

i just realized that even if i'm capable of describing how i go about producing a song, i suck at remixes anyways. The last successful one i made was.....well, MM3 Top Man for FLMC5, but I consider that to be a kind of lucky shot.

[Zephyr]

I think this is a good idea, but would take a massive amount of work as well as someone skilled enough to do it.

I think that some tutorials on both remixing itself and how to run programs are needed, but since most people re-mix in almost completely different ways, I think that tutorials on how to use programs would be most helpful to start.

When I was just starting, (only about 6 months ago) I looked up a lot of videos and downloaded the demos, I immediately took to FL studio and since I'm one of the people who can pretty much figure out and entire program on my own just by fiddling, I did. I used specific tutorial videos (I find anything other than videos to be pretty much a lost cause) to teach me about specific and somewhat more complicated things until I understood them. Each time a learned something new, I would spend at least half an hour messing with it to help me learn it better.

Maybe with these tutorials, we could also give an audio clip or two, and an objective that requires the use of the part that the tutorial teaches. Such as, with an edison tutorial (audio editor in FL studio) we could give a clip of a guy saying a sentence and tell the viewer to download the clip and use edison to chop it up into bits. (They'd do this after watching the video teaching them how to use the basic tools of edison.)

I think I could be a decent teacher since I just learnt these things myself, but I was a little worried I might mislead people if I was a little bit wrong in an area or two. Plus I don't have the software to record my computer.

Someone should plan something.

EDIT: Maybe we could have a one teacher one student pair, the student would be someone starting from scratch with a specified program and the teacher would know what they're doing, the student would ask a question or request knowledge on a specific subject then the teacher would answer it as best as they can, whether with a video or post or something easy to understand, then the case study could be put up for everybody to see and learn from.

[Lunahorum]

http://www.propellerheads.se/news/articles/index.cfm?fuseaction=video

I learned how to use reason just by watching those videos.

I learned to use Reaper by dinking around, and every other program(DAW) is exactly the same. Maybe it has different work-arounds, workflow, and such, but they are all the same in the sense that there are instrument channels, a sequencer, and mixer slots (also called effect channels).

Edit: FL is one of my favorites, but it is shit for automation. Reaper has way better automation. FL's automation gives you the knob % which is useless unless you want to do the math to convert it to units. Reaper tells you the exact number of the knob it is controlling. For example, if it is routed to a filter cutoff, the automation clip will tell you what hz it is at instead of what %. FL also has pattern clips which is in my opinion retarted. Should be able to put everything in the playlist like every other sequencer out there.

[anosou]

http://www.propellerheads.se/news/articles/index.cfm?fuseaction=video

I learned how to use reason just by watching those videos.

I learned to use Reaper by dinking around, and every other program(DAW) is exactly the same. Maybe it has different work-arounds, workflow, and such, but they are all the same in the sense that there are instrument channels, a sequencer, and mixer slots (also called effect channels).

Edit: FL is one of my favorites, but it is shit for automation. Reaper has way better automation. FL's automation gives you the knob % which is useless unless you want to do the math to convert it to units. Reaper tells you the exact number of the knob it is controlling. For example, if it is routed to a filter cutoff, the automation clip will tell you what hz it is at instead of what %. FL also has pattern clips which is in my opinion retarted. Should be able to put everything in the playlist like every other sequencer out there.

For Reason users I also recommend the videos on props website, also there's a lot of good youtube tutorials.

I really recommend just trying stuff though, when you know your software (and a bit of music in general) you can start remixing without any issues

[The Pezman]

Very pleased with discussion so far. I'm at a ski lodge right now... will hopefully be able to comment in more detail tonight.