Rotten Eggplant

4. submitted Duck Tales - The Moon (Psytrance Remix)

35 posts in this topic

So a friend of mine challenged me to remix this theme in the Goa / Psy Trance style. Well, I like a challenge. So, here is my first attempt at Goa Trance. Looking for feedback on the style, sound, eqing, everything. I'm new to this genre (and this site), so let me have it. ;) Thanks!

 

Source: 

 

Remix: 

Version 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m3YYVVnYbIgs8ESnUkODWkpYyO4MiEEn/view?usp=drivesdk

Version 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ThaxpuWI3w2AbRoZ5J-Zn8j7fhK6UlKl/view?usp=sharing

Version 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_lVEEJimImEZieLtW_kv7oKD7rjkpujs/view?usp=sharing

Version 4: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16FKnvtGPzqLdfh2TT6qyUOU8T1c6sMF1/view?usp=drivesdk

Final Version: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XOs1iFAoqR0DeZNrcUoSSCw034gCFDta

EDIT: I must add that this song is only halfway finished. Forgot to add that...

UPDATE: Link updated. See post for more info.

UPDATE 2: Did a lot of fleshing out and some EQing.

UPDATE 3: Added some more goodies and did a final master. I feel it's ready for submission.

UPDATE 4: Did a complete redo of the mixing. I had to change some instruments to make things blend well.

UPDATE 5: Fixed some stuff (the bassline most noticeably)and did another mastering attempt. I think it's ready to submit.

FINAL UPDATE: Alright, so I did a final master and sent it off to be judged. Phew, I hope they enjoy it!

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More like full-on or psytrance than it is Goa trance. I don't think I've ever come across anything within this genre of music on this site. I like how this sounds so far. I like how you took a melody that sounds kind of uplifting and just adjusted the notes enough to where it sounds darker. However, fitting the original melody back into this remix somewhere along the way would be nice, that way it gets that familiarity back. As for equalizing and such, it sounds fine on my laptops speakers.

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Ah, well, at least I'm in the right ballpark as Goa. The challenge is to make it Goa, so could you help me understand Goa a little better? Maybe provide some examples that provide a good enough contrast from Psytrance? 

I will also try to include more of the melody in there. Right now, most of the melody is sort of background sounds... It's hard to incorporate the melody without it sounding off or overbearing, but hey, it's overcoming this challenge that'll be most rewarding!

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

EDIT: So I talked with my friend about the differences between Goa Trance and Psytrance, and he explained it to me. He said to go ahead with the psytrance thing, as he didn't realize I was going to nitpick about the style. So, psytrance it is. 

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You actually might have the correct genre. This remix sounds a bit like something from Infected Mushroom, though. Goa trance generally has Indian (not Native American) influences with their symbolism, for a lack of a better word, in the song. The bassline does sound like the one you have in your remix, just a rolling, droning bassline, which seems to be a common thing these days when it comes to Goa, psy, and full-on. Look up Electric Universe - The Prayer for example of Goa trance. Psytrance is more mechanical, and not just in the sense that it doesn't sound like it's being played live, or lacking humanization on each note and beat, but just the soundscape itself. Look up Infected Mushroom - Becoming Insane (SynSUN Remix).

I don't see anything wrong with the melody you've currently got going. I think the squelches layered with the melody works, and I'm not particularly focused on one over the other. All I was saying is try to take the melody from the start of the mix and reapply it somewhere else in the track. That would certainly require a shift in keys. If you can't do it, don't worry about it. It was just a suggestion.

EDIT: Just noticed something in The Prayer by Electric Universe. It goes from being this really euphoric, repetitious theme at 3:18, and then eventually it starts to die down. Then at 3:58, it transitions to a darker feeling with a woman praying. Perhaps if you wanted to take the original melody you had playing at the start and fit it in like it does in that song, it might work.

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No,  it's a great suggestion. In fact, the reason the song ends where it does is because, tbh, I'm not sure where to take it from there, so maybe I'll try that out as part of a "cool down" after the climatic part the song currently ends at. 

As far as the style is concerned, my friend stated that so far the remix fits within the realms of his challenge, so I'm going to focus more on content, while maintaining the style it currently is. You've been a great source of feedback, I really appreciate it.

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UPDATE: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m3YYVVnYbIgs8ESnUkODWkpYyO4MiEEn/view?usp=drivesdk

Finished the skeleton of the song and did some EQing. Overall I like how this is sounding, but there are some nitpicky things with the sound that i want to fix, as well as some repetitious parts. I'm also experimenting with different sounds and effects, so I may add more later.

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Damn, this is pretty good. It's still a bit repetitive, but you know that already.

What exactly is the recipe for PsyTrance? I mostly like what I hear but I find it still difficult to tell the difference to other kinds of techno music.

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Thanks, and I'm still figuring out how to fix the repetition. 

Psytrance is almost literally trance on drugs. Psytrance is short for psychedelic trance. A couple of key things are the kick and drum, the synth special effects (like the "squelch"), and the emotional journey it takes you. I know thats like trying to explain "love" as "chemicals in the brain", but I'm new the the genre and there may be people who can explain it better than I.

Another key thing to mention is that psytrance got it's roots in Goa, India. That's how the very similar Goa Trance genre got it's name. Goa Trance is a more mellow form of psychedelic trance with more of a traditional Indian sound, whereas psytrance is more about experimenting with synths and is generally an insane form of a sound. 

I must also say that psytrance is a bit of an aquired taste. Like I said, I'm not explaining it well, but that's the gist of it.

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I made this account just to comment as Heavyarms here sent me the link and I have to say it's shaping up really well! I've asked one of my friends who makes Psytrance (Known as 'Mothership Loudspeakerz') to maybe post a comment here or tell me what to relay to you. But I can tell you it sounds good! Don't worry about it being too repetitive. For a Psytrance song this is pretty variant imo. Keep it up!

 

P.S I love Ducktales :D

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Oh cool, something in my field of expertise!

Some quick tips:
-pitch up a bit the closed hats so that the drum groove is tighter

-raise the volume of the open hat
-change the snare sound, the current one sounds too "boxy" like some general MIDI drum, try something more snappy
-tone down the resonance on the bassline filter and open the filter a little bit, shorten a little bit the notes so you have a tighter 16th sequence and less mud
-you can sidechain the low freq (250hz and down) of your main leads to get a clearer sounding mix, same for the snare
-work on the dynamics of the tracks, so far it sounds like you've laid down one idea after another to check if they go well with the kick/bass combo, add at least one breakdown in the track to control the overall energy

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@TurboChaser

Wow, it's very flattering that you made an account just for this song! Thank you for your praise!

@mothershipl

Awesome! This is a feedback gold mine! Alright, I will try everything you suggested, although I can't make any promises that all of it will be fixed exactly like you suggest, only that I'll try everything and see what fits.

You guessed somewhat right about the progression of the song. Everything up to the 2:59 mark was planned. Everything after was pretty much spaghetti thrown against the wall...

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4 hours ago, Rotten Eggplant said:

@TurboChaser

@mothershipl

You guessed somewhat right about the progression of the song. Everything up to the 2:59 mark was planned. Everything after was pretty much spaghetti thrown against the wall...

I should know better about spaghetti, I'm italian lol. if you have any other question don't hesitate to ask.

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Holy cow! You added more to this, and you managed to break away from the darker variant of the original theme and then jump back into it. The melody that starts at the 3:01 to 3:25 mark is a nice addition. It kind of gives me a sense of dread. Maybe Uncle Scrooge wasn't sure if he'd ever escape and get that green cheese. I really liked the interruption at 4:05. Didn't expect that. My only gripe is how your remix ends. Hopefully more people can give you feedback on the quality of the song, because this sounds complete to me. Unless you wanted to extend the track further. But that's up to you.

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Nice going so far!
Keen to see what your version 2.0 will sound like ;)
(Hopefully coming out soon)

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UPDATE 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ThaxpuWI3w2AbRoZ5J-Zn8j7fhK6UlKl/view?usp=sharing

Sorry for the long wait, been busy, then sick, So, did a lot of mastering work and I've implemented most of what @mothershipl suggested. I'm actually very happy with this right now, so barring any critical suggestions, I think it's ready for Mod Review.

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Oh my, I do like this. I'mma like this a lot. Of course, I do love me some psytrance, so that helps. :)

Oddly enough, I was writing up a comment on this before the mod review tag came up, so I was already halfway done. Might as well go whole hog now and give you my thoughts on this for the panel, eh?

EVAL

The arrangement is really interesting - while the texture is damn iconic, at the same time it sounds so different from the source when it either doesn't utilize the theme or uses a subtractive rendition of it to the point of neigh unrecognizeability. Personally, I think that's a great approach, and that transition between the minor/major portion is powerful. For OCR? That could be a different story - with many of the source references in the first third of the track being very subtractive references to the source this could be approaching too-liberal territory due to how much non-source space the track utilizes otherwise. There's an argument to make for this either way, so I can't predict whether it'll get hit for being too liberal, but it's veeery close in that regard.

If you like what you've got regardless (objectively it's still good, regardless of OCR standards), I highly suggest giving some solid time stamps of where the source is used to help us make the case that there is indeed enough source, particularly portions that are not the more obvious moon texture. Judges aren't perfect at catching subtractive source usage (just look at their review of my Jurassic Park arrangement - still a little sour 'bout that one, the source was there, dammit!), so a little help identifying where you used it could go a long way in getting this posted. It's a different panel since that track was rejected and the folks there are quite good at catching source, but I've been personally hit by this years ago so I'd rather you avoid a similar disappointment. ;)

The section at 4:05 that takes the theme into half time takes quite some time to get through. It's a good idea, but it lingers for too long - it simply left me waiting for it to finish by the end of it. Past 4:35 it could've came back in regular time again, or do the whole section from the source in normal time to keep the length as is (so the build can remain as is). As it stands the section lingers for too long.

I like the production on this - clean beat (standard psytrance stuffs), with some dirtier synths on top when it really comes together. The ending few seconds, while it sounds intentional the clipping/limiting artifacts from the synth at 6:51-6:52 is pretty distracting. I suggest toning down that EQ envelope to avoid that, or alternatively use another EQ device on that synth to simultaneously lower said EQ envelop manually just for that instrument. Either way, a fix there would only help you, however you approach it.

Otherwise, lovin' it. I think this has a good chance at passing regardless - it's just too cool and unique to ignore - but to better your odds be sure to send a timestamp of source usage for the judges, and perhaps take another look at that slower section in the middle. Fixing the ending artifact would be great too. Awesome work!

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Wow, thanks for the amazing eval!

I've been throwing around the idea of changing the ending. I initially wanted to end it with somewhat of a climax followed by a rather abrupt outro, but it makes the ending seem TOO adrupt.

I'm kind of disappointed that you didn't like the breakdown (well, the length if it, anyway)... I'll see if I can trim it or something without detracting from what I was trying to do with it. Something like adding arps.

I plan on doing a final master before I submit this. I'll add the timestamp source thing you mentioned. I'll probably post one more update before I send it off. 

Thanks again for the eval!

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I like the breakdown - even thought it was a great idea. I simply believe it was just dragged out too long, is all - breaks the sense of flow the rest of the track has.

Glad I could help!

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UPDATE: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_lVEEJimImEZieLtW_kv7oKD7rjkpujs/view?usp=sharing

(Hopefully) The final, fully mastered version. I added a lot of goodies in hope that it fills in the boring parts and make it more "psytrancy". 

I think it's ready for submission. Let me know.

EDIT: So after doing a few "car test" runs on other speakers, I feel this could use a smidge more mastering. I'll update this post after I work on it some more.

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Finally got a chance to listen, and I must say, you really took the advice on board! I like it alot and if you release this on bandcamp or somewhere else I can purchase it I will be happy to buy.

I think I still prefer the version I first heard but that's due to me being here more for the theme than the Psytrance element. What you've done here s really cool and the sounds you used work perfectly!

Don't take my preference for the older version as me saying this version is worse, this final version is clearly better but it's just me being funny ;D

 

Keep it up!

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