BardicKnowledge

Nullfire is better in every possible way for Magebane than Brutalizer -- guaranteed 80% slow is better than a chance for stun anyday. Not to mention the +24 agility.

Congrats -- any big plans for the honeymoon?

Just wanna point out that you sure as hell weren't complaining about the game being "unfair" when you started 9 kills up on us. If you had wanted a remake at the start for balance I would have been fine with it. No one should complain just because they lost though -- poor form.

Arachna doesn't need a ban IMO -- she's very easy to play against in a 5v5 game. 3v3, when you get into 1v1 fights more often, she's better, but still not anywhere near as good as Succubus. Similarly, Wraith is absolutely terrible early game, and has poor HP for the entire match. Instead of banning individual heroes, IMO what needs to change is people's general playstyle. Don't solo lane after people start ganking -- and if you do get ganked once, learn and don't get ganked again in the same match. If this means that you can't farm and have to sit there until we defend, so be it. This also applies to jungling -- you are NOT safe there (unless you're well warded) after everyone hits level 10 or so. Jungle heroes tend to think that they can safely ignore the entire rest of the match until they emerge as this god at level 17...which is completely untrue. Don't ban heroes -- fix your lousy playstyle so you aren't rocked a million different ways. The ONLY skills worth considering for a ban are Tempest and Jereziah ults...but even they can be planned around by superior strategy and play.

Panda's 325 disjoint on Flurry gives him a melee skill at a distance -- I'll vote the middle ground on him and say A-tier. Scout is definitely C though -- even with AoE silence, he remains the ultimate pubstar hero. 10% on the ult is nice, but compared to Thunderbringer, it's terrible. If your team has even one character with dust / gem, then he's useless...assuming that your heroes stick together lategame. Even for ganking solo heroes that are out to far (again, pubstar), Scout doesn't kill as quickly as Sand Wraith will lategame -- and Wraith doesn't have to quit farming to do it.

Wow, this was breathtaking. Absoutely incredible stuff -- I wish we could get people like this for the American show, instead of talentless hack singers left and right.

I really want to the the conclusion of this also -- people need to play moar!

3) Relyance manages to roll Zero's entire team easily with his torturer 4x (harkon's blade ftw), but because they had so much gold from farming earlier, they are able to buyback infinitely anyway.

Nullfire gives more damage and a better slow than H&S for almost 2000 less gold. No AGI hero should get H&S over Nullfire or Geo. No worries, as I love Spectre, and intend to play him a TON now that he's ported. Also, cliffwalking works on ONE mouse click. Won't seems big to non-DotA players, but easy pathing makes me smile.

Your accounts are on the clan list and known to us. antigrav is an OCR member, if I remember right. I can add your main account if you want, just ping me ingame.

TenchuX, is that also your HoN account name? Message either TenseiSan, zircon, or RTBardic(me) ingame and we'll be glad to add you -- which goes for anyone from here also.

Poor control mechanics I understand, because I fight it with wildsoul also. What do you mean by an "incorrect and incomplete" jungle though?

Damn, that's too bad, as I really got into the deck building on the DS.

Happy birthday Tensei! I hope you find something exciting to do!

Widescreen makes the games worth it, and the new controls are sweet -- ESPECIALLY in Prime 1. You can curve Wave Beam shots around walls! Prime 2 becomes quite enjoyable with motion control also. Does Chocobo Tales use the same card battling system that the DS Fables game did?

I really do think BD is just fine, but will agree to not do it if that's what the group wants. Zero proved that Scout is a huge failure though, as he plays the best game of anyone here (except maybe donut?) and there was literally nothing he could do against anyone with a counter-invis item. If he had randomed Chronos instead that game, we wouldn't have had a chance of winning.

I approve of the Jereziah ban, as his ult is stupid. Succubus is just as dumb in 3v3 -- especially since it's easy for her to take the solo lane every time. Arachna isn't as bad IMO -- you just have to play differently when you lane against her. NEVER be below half health (usually the threshold where spider will kill you before you can TP), and if your lane partner gets the spider, help him out by killing it. I understand the reasoning behind your idea here zircon, but I think that everyone needs to learn how to play against her -- banning her will never teach what needs to be taught. No one who plays with us plays a good enough Tempest to warrant a ban IMO. If you're going to ban tempest because he jungles and emerges a champion, you might as well ban my Wildsoul also. I am yet to lose a game as Wildsoul where no one ganks me in the jungle -- the same is true of Tempest, for largely the same reasons. If someone picks tempest, put wards at their creep spawns and you'll cut his levelling in half (the same, incidentally, is true for wildsoul and legion). No one in OCR currently does this, and it would devastate a jungle player. Next time it comes up I'll prove it to you guys. As far as Tempest ult goes, don't stand together if you don't want to get hit by it. Stand in two groups instead, a stunner in each one. Losing a teamfight to Tempest ult at our level of play is because the losing team was lazy/stupid, not because the Tempest was particularly good. Edit: I support the Jereziah / Succubus bans entirely. That being said, I'm not going to ask for a repick if someone randoms and draws them. So if you want to play those chars, roll the dice and hope. Edit 2: Nullfire blade needs to be picked up by more OCR players than me ever. It instagibs Arachna's ult, removes almost every buff in the game, gives your attacks manaburn, and can be casted as a slow to follow up your stun. If more people grabbed it we wouldn't be having half of this conversation.

I'll try panda tomorrow -- his ability to kill channeling things is supposed to be great.

Eventually, people that rely on auto-attacking / last-hitting to farm will be behind someone that uses spells and abilities. The only exception I can think of is someone with Mock (radiance), because they effectively have an AOE spell in constant play. Example: Valkyrie and Defiler both should be utilizing their AOE spells to farm creep waves once the laning phase is over (between levels 7 and 10). Not only can they take out very large creep waves (think 4 "waves" worth pushing your tower) quickly this way, but they avoid being ganked by staying forward for as little time as possible. The time spent healing your mana at the fountain is mitigated by the fact that you'll be returning there to purchase your gear anyway.

I think that on a good day, zircon and I would be enjoyable opponents for you two -- that being said, the game in question was decided much more by the other 3 on both teams than any of the actions of us 4, which is all I meant in the comparison. I do realize that you and katsie are better players overall than the rest of us...and that's just fine -- we'll get there. <3

Scout's AoE silence isn't bad -- I'm surprised you didn't use that more in teamfights. I'd agree that the teams were as balanced as they were going to get given the players that match also...if Tensei or I would have traded for your magmus (forget who it was), your team would have rolled. Any match where both teams are down to base towers is a decent one IMO. That being said, if you cancel out you, Katsie, me, and Tensei, our remaining 3 played better than yours. That isn't _always_ the case with those guys. Most of the remaining players have really variable performance...a couple days ago, LuketheX was completely owning with his tempest, for example. On backdooring -- IMO it's just fine, as long as people wait to do it until near the end, when it becomes neccessary. I'd complain if a Wildsoul or Tempest used summons to tank two towers with their whole team at level 5...but even then, you should be able to stop it (which we did). My general rule is that I will warn people if they're sticking their noses out too far, and ask for ganks if I'm a sidelane...but I don't give item or skill advice unless someone asks me for it. Otherwise it comes off as "superior" and annoying. Edit: One more topic for discussion, especially for the newer people here. We realize that many of you guys are not capable of filling whatever role a team needs you to fill. Your job therefore is to tell us what you're good at BEFORE everyone else picks heroes. Say "I really need to play support" or "I really like early gankers". Those of us who are more versatile can work around that....but ONLY if we know in advance. Similarly, certain items (nullfire blade, geometer's bane, puzzlebox, astrolabe) are excellent on some characters, but only if you have the awareness needed to use them. If you can't remember to trigger nullfire and geo every time that you should, don't be afraid to say "I'm not good at using them" and get Hack&Slash instead. Better you get something that helps you, and therefore helps the team.

Haha, excellent work you two.

4.2's deletion of the HBC is really lazy coding -- it just erases a target title id#. Literally all dvdX and the HBC did to get around it was use a different title id number for their programs...problem solved! Considering that it has bricked a number of Wii systems that have had nothing to do with homebrew, I wouldn't recommend anyone getting 4.2 -- hopefully Nintendo releases an actual update that is safer soon.

Have a great day, both of you!

^That method sounds good. Let me know who I owe money to. I'd prefer the "captains" to be fairly well known, as I dislike the idea of sending money to _complete_ strangers though.