Liontamer

The game's >15 years old. Where were you at for all that time? Chris Tilton wins for best reply: http://twitter.com/christilton/status/1102764921

Hahaha! I gotta see that. Anyone got a scan? For the record, I'm not phased by it. Our work was excellente. The major majority of reviews being great, a couple having small complaints, and 2 guys treating the soundtrack like a fart in church? We can handle it. I suppose we just need to work harder to win over the last few people. If anyone writes a letter, don't be a douche.

Here you go, bro! http://vgmdb.net/album/11594 Need some more info on it (like the specific release date, which ones are VGM remixes and of what), when you have a chance!

Nope, no point.

Remixer/Forum name: Tyrannosorceror (formerly Mark_Li; I submitted a few mixes AGES ago when I was just learning. Tetris War Anthem and Eternity Ascending Gagazet Real name: Alex Lavigne Email: ale0xxx1@gmail.com Website: www.myspace.com/tyrannosorceror Game arranged: Metal Gear (msx/nes) Song arranged: Track 2 (whatever its called; I couldn't find a name anywhere ) This mix is my attempt to make a dance-able Metal Gear mix using what are (IMO) the best bits from the theme I chose. I am HEAVILY inspired by Justice, Kavinsky, The Presets, Midnight Juggernauts, Digitalism, Chromeo...basically all the indie electro stuff. I don't know if the influence comes through, since I'm nowhere near as talented as anybody on that list, but I'm still learning and I'm pretty happy with the track. I crave feedback. Thanks --------------------------------------------------------- I remember Tetris 'War Anthem'; that was promising. http://www.zophar.net/download_file/9121 - Track 2 Obviously, I liked the SFX in the intro. Music came off sounding empty despite everything going on, confirmed once the melody kicked in at :21. The texture here didn't fill the space well. I also thought the treble on the cymbals was a bit much; kind of surprising given that the rest sounded like it lacked highs. I liked the concept behind the arrangement, this just needs cleaner production and an additional element or two to properly pad out the background & fill this out. Something more interpretive with the melody at 2:05 would have been good, because it was a cut-and-paste of :22's section and dragged on. 2:34 switched over to an original section before playing with it around 3:00 and going into the chorus. Though the backing instrumentation was different, the chorus at 3:04 felt too similar to 1:21's section. Modifying the lead sound or rhythms there would have brought some life to it. The synth design was a bit vanilla, and I also felt that there wasn't enough dynamic contrast. There's a good base here, but the structure and execution needs some further refinement. NO

It hasn't. It fact, I told djp on Google Talk sometime and he didn't do anything, so let's kick his ass. But yeah, this issue extends to several games in the Castlevania series, not just Adventure.

I'd be surprised to hear something like that from me too. Too bad that's not even close to what I said. I like covers, I played covers on my radio show all the time, I've got nothing against covers. Covers are a friend of mine. We pass conservative enough stuff often enough. I didn't say the bar here should only allow extremely liberal interpretation. Even we don't accept most extremely liberal interpretation. What I AM saying is that just because a lot of people can't pick up on how a source tune relates to a ReMix doesn't mean we at OCR should actively discourage liberal interpretation that judges can recognize. The judges are collectively better at recognizing connections than casual listeners. That's why we're the ones selecting what makes it, and that's why "Joe Schmoe recognizing the source in there" is not part of our criteria. A perfect example is Mythril Nazgul's Final Fantasy X-2 'Chauffage au Gaz': http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01342/ It took a breakdown from Myth for us to fully recognize all the connections, and they were very substantive despite not being obvious. By the short-sighted opinion of some of you guys, WE WOULD NOT POST IT. Y'all mean well, but that should not be how it works. We're always going to be selective (not stuck-up) based on originality, creativity and interpretation. But when I say that a cutoff of "most people recognize the original" is bad, it's because we want to be inclusive of creative arrangements, not exclusive. And that involves analyzing and passing many arrangements that don't appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Remixer:HoboKa Game: Chrono Trigger original: Factory Remix name: Convey Thy Groove Link: Description: Well, I decided to grow up and stop crying about the standard. Sorry about the untoward attitude from before. Although i do wish that you guys would explain more thoroughly why the last two were instantly rejected...as they are technically better than my other remixes insofar. Even if that was just to spite me because of my attitude, I'd like to know. Anyways, this remix is a jazzy/funky re-take of the factory theme. I paid more attention to melody, particularly in the second half of the song, and I emphasized on the rhythm as well - instead of just the usual long, ambient sounds of my older works. Hopefully not too conservative too. Moreover, this track's definitely not as chaotic as the last, and I believe that the direction is more agreeable. Hope you guys enjoy it ----------------------------------------------------------- http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=ct - "Remains of the Factory" (ct-210.spc) The soundscape lacked in the high-end too much; everything sounded distant and muddy. You've gotta bring a little more volume and sheen to the sound. The timing of the bassline and (I guess) layered brass & strings at 1:52 was way too rigid and lacked realism. On the arrangement side, the mood/sound was somewhat different than the source, but there wasn't much difference in the structure. Not bad here, as the arrangement approach of adding original material on top of the source as the foundation was valid. But I wouldn't have minded seeing more interpretation of the actual source tune rather beyond the straightforward backing groove here. All of the original writing on top of the bassline of the source wasn't awful, but it wasn't melodious. That's still your biggest drawback; you really aren't writing cohesive original stuff. Hit some free ear training websites and just spend more time on understanding the building blocks. Keep at it though. NO

Added the other albums too, enjoy! http://vgmdb.net/artist/1261

Sweeeeeeet! Really impressive album art by Lexxy too. I thought the vocals for "Minutes to Seconds" sounded off, but otherwise I'm loving every track. Personal favorites: "Burn Out", "Flash", "Geat Down", "Heatseeker", "Blood Inside" (loved the belltone style lead, and the piano later on was an awesome touch)! Definitely some strong shit here. I just updated the VGMdb entry for it: http://vgmdb.net/album/10507 I also Twittered about it, before I read the liner notes, then Twittered about THAT!

ReMixer: Hollidayrain Name: Sreyas Krishnan E-mail: sreyaskr@msn.com Website: www.soundclick.com/hollidayrain ReMix title: "Breakout" ( <---Mp3 can be downloaded from this location) Game: Kirby's Block Ball Song: Level 1 Theme () Platform: Gameboy First of all, I have to say that Kirby's Block Ball was such an unbelievably addicting game. I remember playing this for hours on end about seven or so years ago (good times...). Not to mention, the soundtrack was just as addicting as the game! The game, on the whole, was like Breakout on steroids. That leads me to the remix. One day, I incidentally found myself humming the tune to the level one theme. Then it hit me, why not do something with it? So I decided to re-write the whole thing in a minor key to see what it would sound like; and sure enough, it sounded pretty good. After this, I just went ahead and did my club trance thang, as it were, and after quite a bit of work, I finished it up. The title Breakout seemed appropriate both because of the game and the way I felt after listening to this track for the first time (like going for a 10 mile run hahaha). Thanks in advance for any feedback you all can give me! -H.R Oh, and btw, I had to pull the plug on that Wario Land 3 project. At the time I was making it, I only had the demo version of FL Studio, so I couldn't save the project file :\. Maybe someday I'll get back at that one.... --------------------------------------------------------- http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/KirbysBlockBall_v2.7z - Track 5 You should try developing backing instrumentation that's a little more substantive than that basic clap groove at :30; it's bread-and-butter dance/trance stuff, but it didn't fill out the track well at all. Decent stuff at :43 adapting the source well for the genre, but as far as the melodic interpretation, that was basically it for the long haul. It's not inherently bad to just arrange a limited section of the source, but I think you've gotta take it in one or two more directions to provide some more arrangement substance. There were some dropoffs and buildups, but the fullest sections (e.g. :43, 4:04) were only barely above 2nd gear when they needed to be in 3rd, IMO. You've got to give the track some more dynamic energy. The potential's there for something strong, but it hasn't been realized yet. Keep working on it, Sreyas, this was a good start! NO (resubmit)

ReMixer name: Hanibalicious E-mail address: Hanibalicious@gmail.com Name of game(s) arranged: Marble Madness (NES) Name of individual song(s) arranged: Practice race: Level 1 Your own comments about the mix, for example the inspiration behind it, how it was made, etc.: Marble madness race 1 is one of the most minimalistic pieces of video game composition ever, so i just wanted to have fun with it, playing around with everything from big, strong violin crescendos to a didgeridoo baseline. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.zophar.net/download_file/9107 - Track 1 Not really a developed enough idea. Once you heard the didgeridoo and string combination at :16, it got beat into the ground by the end of the track. The flimsy drum kit introduced at :37 wasn't particularly interesting and didn't mesh with the other instrumentation. The performance on the lead string at 2:07 was too rough and exposed. Decent concept and a fun theme, but you've gotta flesh this one out and develop the ideas into a longer, more varied arrangement. NO

Hi guys, This is Ben Prunty, aka Jupiterman. My submission is a rearrangement of the song End of Time from Chrono Trigger called Gaspar's Burden. Just for clarity, here's all the necessarry info: Real name: Ben Prunty Remixer name: Jupiterman Website: http://jupiterman.net/ User ID: 8671 Game: Chrono Trigger Composer: Yasonuri Mitsuda Song Arranged: End of Time The file can be found here: Chrono Trigger is one of many games out there that features a mix of high technology and mysticism. I think that, especially in Japanese games, this kind of imagery and setting are used so much, and so casually, that players eventually tend to take it for granted. I wanted to use this song to point out the inherent weirdness of the idea of technology and magic coming together in ways that may be jarring and challenging, but also beautiful overall. Don't forget how bizarre is is to have swords and guns being used in tandem and magic-imbued automations trundling about. I hope this remix can strengthen one's appreciation for that concept, in it's own way. Thanks guys. -Ben http://jupiterman.net/ http://makeshiftmusician.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Good interview with Star Salzman, BTW. Some of the pacing and sound choices here reminded me of his stuff. http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=ct - "The Brink of Time" (ct-213.spc) The piano sequencing needed some work. The timing was OK, but still sounded robotic. Once things picked up at 1:25, and you moved away from the piano to a synth that didn't need to sound organic, the rigid timing was a moot point. The backing strings at 2:23 also stuck out as mechanical-sounding given the perfect timing. 2:23 also could have done something to create more of a dynamic curve compared to the previous section. Add realism to the more organic-minded sound choices and work on the dynamics for the last section and this could be a contender. NO (resubmit)

12.9MB... just a liiiittle over the filesize limit - LT Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18439 Remixer Name: Sweendrix Real Name: John Sweeney Email: Sweendrix@yahoo.com Website: Youtube.com/sweendrix Game Arranged: Halo (Main Theme) Name of Song: Dawn of a New Age Song Link: Inspiration for the song comes from the incredible music and talent of composer Marty O'donnell, as well as my own ideas for what a single player Halo Campaign should be like. --------------------------------------------------------------- For the record, 6.00MB is the filesize limit for the site. Try not to double it next time. HALO Original Soundtrack - (26) "Halo" Definitely a substantial improvement, and much more sophisticated in performance and execution. The VERY extended intro was very solid. Once things picked up at 2:35, I thought the that percussion and vocal loop was out of place, moreso than the last time around. The timing of it was an awkward fit and it should have been dropped out entirely. I would have only used it at 3:32's and/or 5:02's section if you had to have it in there, but it still didn't fit during 3:32's section. Good dropoff at 4:12, followed by a more low-key rebuilding for the finish. Something about the stereo separation felt off listening to this on headphones, like a lot of elements were panned hard to one side, which didn't sound right. I'd appreciate a second opinion for a sanity check. If the no one has any corroborating complaints about the panning/balance, then I'd say drop that out of place percussion/vocal loop for the win. As is, it's like hammering a square peg into a round hole. Fix that and tweak some of the panning for the win, otherwise it's a NO, IMO. YES (conditional)

As long as the A-to-B connections are apparent after informed scrutiny, then it honors the original music. That independent of pleasing lowest common denominator listeners. It's not about whether Joe Schmoe from Idaho recognizes the source tune or likes the arrangement vs. the original music. Hell, the thread started because some dipshit at NeoGAF couldn't handle a key change. Listeners find all sorts of short-sighted reasons not to enjoy a creative, interpretive arrangement, but we'd rather base the judging criteria on encouraging creativity & interpretation. Once you go toward the average fan picking up on the connection, you dumb down the process.

Beyond awesome.

J-hosted source

Hello There! ...Ok, so much to tell: ----------------------------- name: commandcom userid: 26178 I'm Jorge Mira, a composer / sound designer located in Madrid (Spain). I've been involved in music bussiness since 12 years or so... Worked on studios as engineer, freelance composer, arranger, etc... since 2003 in wich I founded my own Digital Signage / Production company, from where I do my cinema bussiness and my "other bussines" in multimedia. Maybe It's easier to link my IMDb profile, so most questions about me get answered: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1697604/ The fact is that I've felt the needing of doing a tribute album since I was 20 or so (I'm 35 now, so It's been a while) and, of course, one of my tribute targets would be VideoGame Music, as it has influenced me beyond any measurable reason. I learned so much from those games that I felt they deserved a recognition... So my greatest influences come from the MSX age, and, of course, Konami Games. I made up a list, maybe 8 years ago, about the key tunes / games. And one of them is, as you may guess, SD Snatcher (Konami, MSX2, 1990) This was one of the (now ultra famous) Hideo Kojima productions: In fact, it is a remake in an RPG style of "Snatcher", a previous game. I'm absolutely sure you've hearded about / know for sure these two. In any case, here is a good link for info about them: http://junkerhq.net If I had enough time, I would re-interpret / remix / re-assemble just about 90% of the work done by Konami on the MSX. Maybe you're unfamilier with the fact that Konami did implement a special soundchip in some MSX cartridges (named SCC) that provided 5 extra poliphony channels to the 3 already present on the computer itself. This gives a hint about how much did Konami care about sound and music in their games. And that was the fact of SD Snatcher. (...) The ReMix: ----------------- The intro for the game consists of 3 episodes: The song choosed corresponds to the second one, the "Title Sequence" one. Since I hearded it, it resembled me of Mission:Impossible, James Bond and Charlie's Angels all at the same time (I wouldn't be surprised if those were the exact references Kojima gave composer Masahiro Ikariko to work with) So, there was the Adam Clayton / Larry Mullen Re-Mix of the Lalo Schiffrin's Mission Impossible theme. And that was the idea! Slow it down, 007-ize it, Charlie-ize it, Orchestra-ize it! And that was quite clear years ago, untill last week, when, finally I found the right tim to do my "Push Space Key (A Tribute to Konami) EP". I just finished to set up my new 2009 rig and needed an excuse to test it... What did I use? - Nuendo 4 / Reason 4 are my main tools. - EastWest Symphonic Orchestra (Orch. bits) - Colossus (1 layered bass, several persussion items) - Trilogy (1 layered bass) - Atmosphere (2 pads) - Storm Drum (several persussion items) - Virtual Guitarist Electric Edition Arranged / Mixed in the N4, mastered (light one, preserving dynamics) in WaveLab / Ozone2 (...) Almost there: ------------------- The track name is "Difficult Move", and my mix is called "Difficult Move Indeed" for obvious reasons you'll find into it in the "Charlie's Angels" part. I focused in 3 of the 4 parts of the song. re-inforcing the pressence of the "Mission: Impossible" part and just giving a hint on the 007 / Charlie ones. I like to make these mixes feel they actually could be IN the game, so not trying to get them that far away from their original universe and making them proud of their origin. Also, I'm trying to "pop-ize" them, so anyone could find an structure to relate to, even if they are not aware of what tey are listening to. Basically: so everyone can enjoy them by today standards. The other 2 games I'm covering for my tribute album are: Salamander (MSX Version,1986) (3 tracks) KingKong2 (MSX2 Version,1988) (1 track) + 1 track more from SD Snatcher. Best Regards, Jorge. Jorge Mira Diseñador de Sistemas | www.asvideo.net --------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for providing the source. Good stuff. Glad to see a Snatcher series mix; what the hell took the community so long? SCC Memorial Series Snatcher Joint Disk - (203) "Difficult Move" The strings in the intro were pretty exposed, IMO. Source kicked in at :09 in more of an espionage style. Something about the sound balance feels off. The sample realism on the strings and brass left a little something to be desired. The second iteration of the melody at :59 felt very retreadish and I really didn't like how robotic the piano sequencing sounded at 1:23; definitely could have been improved, but it was more a background element that I can live with. The arrangement ideas there were solid. The dropoff at 2:13 for the next iteration of the source was kind of odd, but the percussion picked back up at 2:23. 2:33 needed to do something different and succeed, focusing more on the wahs and strings for the finish. The execution could have been stronger in a lot of ways, in terms of the realism and the dynamic contrast. I'm liking the concept of the arrangement, Jorge, but there's a lack of refinement that leaves the mix sounding like average execution with good samples. No issues if this passes, but it could be more, IMO, and isn't quite there yet. NO (borderline/resubmit)

Neither the current ReMixer name nor the ReMix name set the world on fire. - LT Contact Info ReMixer name: SakimotoFanboy Real name: Fredrik Häthén Email: fredrik.hathen@gmail.com Site: http://www.fredrikhathen.com User ID: 22119 Submission Info Game name: Vagrant Story Song name: Joshua Additional info: Composed by Hitoshi Sakimoto. The game is for the PSX. Personal comments: I wrote this piano arrangement to be performed by myself at a concert. The audience had no idea the original song came from a game, and I wanted to see their reaction. The piece was well received by everyone, and I got the idea that I ought to record it in a more professional manner. It has been polished, tweaked and edited a lot, and now I submit it to OCremix to see how it's received there. The reason why I chose this song is that I love Vagrant Story's soundtrack, and this wonderful little theme in particular. LT Edit (12/25): Source tune on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jfy5XFXAX0 ------------------------------------------------------------ Vagrant Story Original Soundtrack - (206) "Joshua" Structurally, pretty straightforward in the manner of the original. I think part of the "drawback" is that it's not necessarily the most unique piano arrangement since it doesn't take many liberties with the structure. Nonetheless, comparing the two, the performance dynamics were much more pronounced in this take, and the ambient section in the original that went on for 30 seconds (:46-1:17 of the source video) was scrapped entirely, with Fredrik opting for some original writing that pieced together seamlessly with the source. This certainly isn't poorly performed or arranged, I just think the arrangement could have been more interpretive. That said, this was performed live with excellent results, and what's there works for me. I'm willing to give it the go. Good luck with the rest of the vote, and I definitely hope we hear a lot more from you! YES

If our previous submission was accepted, please add the name “Brent Mah” to the band members list. He is a recent addition to our group. I’ll be submitting tunes every three weeks so I hope you like them! There all live recordings and are usually with different people playing on each one. There is a “set version” of our group, but it plays together only when we’re in the same city. This members listed in the band members section are the instrumentalists that will be used for out debut CD. The performers on each track submitted will be listed in the write-up. Take care, Brendan McElroy The Runaway Five www.therunawayfive.com Contact Information: ReMixer name (band name): The Runaway Five Real Name (band members): Brendan McElroy, Brendan Swanson, Alex Goodman, Matt MacLean, Brent Mah, Spencer Cheyne Email Address: brendanmcelroy@therunawayfive.com Website: www.therunawayfive.com Userid: 25789 Submission Information: Game: Final Fantasy VI Song: Desicive Battle Remix Title: Magicite Mayhem Additional comments: Arranged by: Brendan McElroy (August 2008). Performed by: The Runaway Five: Brendan McElroy (Bass), Brendan Swanson (Piano), Spencer Cheyne (Drums) (excluding The Runaway Five members; Alex Goodman (Guitar), Matt Maclean (Trumpet), and Brent Mah (Saxophones)). Mixed and recorded live at The Beat Niq Jazz and Social Club (August 20th, 2008) by Spencer Cheyne at Crossover studios. Produced by Brendan McElroy. ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=ff6 - "The Decisive Battle" (ff6-124.spc) The track was 6:06 long, so that means I need more than 183 seconds' worth of source usage so that it's present more than 50% of the time. If you do comping and freestyling more than you use the theme, that's not enough of a tribute to the theme IMO. That said, here's where I heard the theme in play: :20-:42, :49-1:15, 4:20-4:42, 5:32-5:57. That's about 95 seconds, or about 25.96%. Basically "The Decisive Battle" is bookending all original material. Sorry guys, no dice. Source material usage has to be the dominant (for me, >50%) part of the arrangement; that's what the site's here for. Even if I'm missing something huge, and I'm open to other POVs, I don't think it's gonna bring up the source usage anywhere near dominant. Looking forward to your next sub though guys. I definitely enjoyed this one a lot, even though it falls outside our standards. Keep kicking ass! NO

Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18901 Contact Info: Remixer Name: Cyguration Real Name: William Usher E-mail address: Cyguration@vgcore.com Website: (None) User ID: 25762 Submission Info: Name of the remix: Edging Mirror Intro Name of game arranged: Mirror's Edge Name of song arranged: Intro song Link to the original: http://www.mirrorsedge.com/ Comments: It was such an amazing piece I thought I might remix my own version. --- William D. Usher Senior staff writer VG Core Network LT Edit (12/25): Here's the official video: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Still Alive - The Remixes - (01) "Still Alive (The Theme from Mirror's Edge)" Appreciated the thematic tie-in to the game with the running SFX. The production's been tweaked to not be as muddy, which was good, though there were still some other issues. The drums are still pretty bland and the sequencing/timing's too perfect, which didn't work for such a deliberate tempo. After the dropoff at :43, things were supposed to build to crescendo for 1:03. Instead, the energy level didn't pick up much, thanks to those drums. They were a really weak anchor for the piece, and though their presence meant to contribute to a high level of energy, I thought they hindered that. The sequenced piano harmonizing the melody at 1:04 still sounded too quantized and robotic sounding. Not feeling the positioning of the vocals chants at 2:02. They came in way way too loud & upfront and just sound stapled on top of the soundscape. Also, the whole thing could use some boosting of the higher frequencies, because the soundscape sounded too lo-fi. There was definitely some improvement in the overall presentation, William, but some stuff like the beefy drums really aren't clicking here, so you would need to reevaluate and refine some of the choices here. If you aren't already using the Works forum here for feedback, see what other feedback you can get on it. NO

Anyone know Postal 2 well? If I understand it correctly, this uses melodic lines from the chanting as the base of the mix. Having heard the one chant mentioned in the letter though, that's clearly not the source - LT ReMixer Name - N-JekteD Real Name - Mick Gordon Email - mick.gordon@gameaudioaustralia.com Website - www.gameaudioaustralia.com UserID - 13064 Link to remix - Name of game arranged - Postal 2 Name of individual song - Music in Postal 2 works a little differently and most of the game is "silent" on the music front. However, many characters sing, for example, the anti-video game protesters that chant "games are bad, they make you sad". Therefore, I've decided to do something a little different and incorporate a bunch of these chants and one-liners into a single track. Just a warning - this remix does contain course language. Comments - After a bit of a hiatus, I've decided to upload a second remix! However, this time I've decided to do something a little different: Instead of choosing to remix a track or two from the game's soundtrack, I've decided to incorporate a bunch of different chants, reactions and sounds from the game into one big, angry track that hopefully sums up the chaos from Running With Scissors' 2002 PC game, "Postal 2". The remix starts with the Postal Dude trying to relax in his trailer by sitting back with a beer and listen to the radio. But then, his relaxation is disturbed once he hears the sound of distant Police sirens heading his way (:00 - :40). Now, the Postal Dude isn't someone who's going to give himself up easily, so he readies himself and enters into a battle with the Police which I've represented with a big, heavy, angry beat with lots of guitars and big percussion (:41 - 1:13). From here, we take a trip into the mind of the Postal Dude and this section represents his psychological torment, internal anger and disregard for the world around him. In this section, I've combined ominous western-inspired guitars with samples from the game and other dissonant sounds (1:13 - 2:36). After we peer into the demented head of the Postal Dude, a reprise of the original angry theme occurs where I've combined chants and other samples from the game to further demonstrate the violence and brutality of the Postal Dude (2:46 - 3:40). The track ends on a disturbing note with another sound design scene that best to be heard...and not described. But then all the puppies and bunnies come out and play merrily under the rainbow.

A while. Working on HD Remix, the bread and butter's definitely taken a back seat. '09, djp'll be trying to post more. Right now, I'd say anywhere from 3-9 months, with some outliers in both directions.

WHAT?!?

And there you have it. We win '08!