Inv1ctus

Ok, well now that ive submitted Gagazet, i went ahead and continued work on this mix, so i figured id start a new thread for it (I killed the killer instinct mix for now). I have a ton left to do with this song, but id like to get some feedback to help guide me through the process. My hardest thing to get right is EQ so please help me there if at all possible. Isolating frequencies turns out to be a royal pain in the ass. Anyhow, imagine Kratos in the year 2043 or something. Im pretty much trying to idealize the sound track for a futuristic feel while still being organic but adapted. Im thinking it borders more on a classical piece, which is why when i get my recording equipment working again, i want to integrate guitar work (heavily distorted). Also, im thinking i want to add another techno-esque synth to bring it more into the new millennium. EDIT: One more thing-i was thinking about was adding audio clips from the game between 2:27 and 2:30 where kratos would say ten thousand years... i have served the gods for ten thousand years... and then one other audio clip at 3:16 where he shouts ARIES!!!! i dunno. could be really good, could be bad. The Wrath of Kratos Thoughts?

wow hoboka, very good improvements! i am impressed from where it started. A few suggestions i might make: There are a couple of places where the synths seem exposed, and i might have some kind of reverse cymbal or something to fill in that empty space. That brass build is good, but its the only thing there, so it has nothing to build off off. Also on the intro drums, they need at least a little reverb on them because it feels kinda dry. The sound effects especially need that reverb effect, and i would give them more reverb than anything else. I would also suggest bringing in elements of that drumnbass theme earlier in hints here and there to build it up. By far, that drum and bass track and the subliminal synths under it are the most powerful aspects of the track. Bring them out as best as you can. Also, i noticed you referred to the song as being in parts, but i might raise a point on that. That identification right there says to me that the track is somewhat not unified. I Would suggest taking the perspective that it should be a unified sequence of events. If they are 3 separate sequences attached, it will be a confused composition. Actually, this problem is easily solved. Blend different elements together to help unify the track. What i mean by that is, Use all the instruments throughout the track, dont introduce them at very distant intervals. That will isolate those instruments to one theme, and make it seem like 3 different songs attached to each other. Also in "part 3", it is a different drum progression altogether, which i think is detracting from the piece. I would say maybe build a more complex form of the "part 2" progression to put in part 3. Actually, if you can, try and copy and paste the part 2 progression over the part 3 drums. It might make that complex sound i am talking about. It might sound bad, so im not guaranteeing it will work, but its worked for me before in some of my mixes . I am really loving the complex chords and characted of " part 3". probably my fav thing about the mix. After the 5th or 6th time of listening to the track to critique it, the biggest problem i think to focus on is unifying the whole song. From there you can attack more subtle problems, but worry about the big ones first. and also, definitely develop some kind of bass part for this. i would file that in the NEED TO DO folder lol. So i know that seems like a lot, but damn keep up the good work and this will be one kick ass song.

ok guys i went ahead and submitted it again with permission from liontamer. wish me luck!

right on sephire! that made my day maybe ill try and have one of the judges swing by first just in case

lol kinda thought that was funny since im reading this on my work break

i think this is awesome! the eq is very good. i might integrate more treble percussion, like a hi hat or something. It seems a bit repetetive tho. Needs something to spice it up, like some scratching or something. I really like the breakdown at 3:40 tho

ok guys! i thoroughly invested myself in your input to better the song. I hope i was successful. The changes are subtle, but hopefully noticeable. Ok guys this is the moment of truth...Is my piece ready to actually be judged? Yea or nay? o_O im not gonna bother listing the changes this time... there are a ton of little things here and there. The Wisdom of Gagazet v1.4

i love the positive, liquid feel of this song. And you know what the eq ain't that bad. Its really got that dj Sammy feel to it. Granted it probably needs more tlc in that department but thats just trivial. I love those reverse piano effects. For some reason i really really want a reverse cymbal to introduce that first drum part. Maybe some panning with the treble percussion? Also maybe some lower frequencies on the bass, or at least introducing it at lower frequencies and then building to the higher treble point would be cool IMO. i cant be of much help other than that, good luck on figuring out where to go next

oh no! the drama Llama strikes again! ok lets talk about the REMIX, since thats what this thread is for. Iceferno, fantastic improvements on this piece. I must second the opinion of what everyone has also said. I feel your pain on the EQ, but that bass still needs beefy beefiness. Also, i would suggest everything in moderation. Yea, usually the suggestions of people here are relevant and valuable, and will improve your mix greatly if followed, but thats exactly what they are. Suggestions. Do what you wanna do, since it is YOUR mix. If you wanna put an outro on the end, put an outro. Looking forward to the next one!

well first off i would say dont worry about what the judges think. The most important thing is to ask yourself if you have done the absolute best you could possibly do, making the remix. Make sure you question that constantly when composing, even when you become confident about it. Always set the bar higher than you are capable, and see what happens to your capabilities. Once youve got to that point, submit it and let the chips fall where they may. Ok so here goes the analysis: Up to time 0:05, it seems like the supporting strings are a little muddy. I might suggest making them more staccato to give them a vibrant feel. For the most part, your samples are fantastic, but just need some velocity. I would suggest incorporating much more in the way of dynamics. As i recently realized, that can be one of the most important things to pay attention to. I would say the brass coming in at 0:09 definitely need more beef. They have the right feel, just not the bellowing bass to really intensify the sample. Now that i think about it... i can hardly notice string bass that much either. I would say overall the lower frequencies need to come out a lot more. Also, it seems that a piece like this could do with a lot of tlc using percussion. So yes, good work, but needs a lot of improvement (and more material for that matter).

yea i gotta agree with sephire on this one. A couple things i noticed in my analysis: For the most part, the mastering seems well balanced, with the exception of a few effects that seem to over-dominate. However, some of the effects / synths are somewhat repetitive, which actually makes it kind of difficult to listen to. Now i know that in some forms of trance/techno/club etc., sometimes these attributes are desirable; where the droning effect becomes the concept, and in which effects are intended to be macabre, invoking and even arbitrary. However, I'm not sure it works in this piece. IMO, it would take some compositional work to make the effects sound meaningful, and more importantly, functional. Even in crazy forms of the style, good songs will have composition and use such crazy/interesting attributes to add to the composition. For some reference, Christopher Lawrence is the golden god of trance composition. Also, this is purely preference, but the synths seem over exposed. Dont give them reverb unless you want to, i just always feel like my synths are naked without at leas a little echo/reverb. Also, im not familiar with the source tune. Are you able to link it? I think the most important problem to attack is where and how you execute the source material. Ive played final fantasy 9 (tho its been a long time lol) and i couldnt really pick the theme out. Thats not to say its not there, it just means i couldnt identify it. If i had that i could identify some aspects of how it was covered in this remix. Good job though, mastering and EQ is one of the hardest aspects of any mix, so kudos.

program list: reason 2.5 guitar rig 2 acoustica mixcraft mixmeister fusion virtual dj audio studio sonic stage all purchased. Not all the greatest programs, but for a broke ass college student i do what i can with what i got. feel free to donate to the broke ass college dude fund to support my future wish list: guitar rig 3 reason 4.0 ableton live ewql gold tapco link.usb etc etc etc insert other expensive ass shit here. thanks for the input sengin, that bpm technique is good to know, and should at least get me by

bwahahahah just look at all this great input! so many improvements to make! so little time!

ok thanks for all the input guys ok, its freaking 3:00 am and i should really be dead, but i wanted to post this update. I worked pretty hard on it today and i think i made some progress. Changes made: Timpani rolls throughout note dynamics exaggerated softer piano, and slightly different ending string bass is a little more analogous to match the cellos slightly different counter melodies slightly more reverb The Wisdom of Gagazet v1.3 enjoy

thanks blake, that was an awesome and valuable critique!!! i really appreciate the level that you went into everything. ill definitely be carefully reconstructing the song with those thoughts in mind. Hmm.... i almost feel like i should email the judges and ask them to take it off the to be judged list, since i obviously want to keep working on it, and feel it could be a better piece. Should i ask them? will they? If i get it in enough time can i give them this one instead? (although i am not even gonna think about rushing this) another point i want to bring up is, i want to make this piece as egoless as possible. What i mean by that is, i dedicate this piece to the feelings i listed previously. What that basically means is i want to make it as perfect as possible, so the listener experiences nothing but pure bliss, and i dont want my urge to be a posted remixer to get in the way of that. Now that i think about it i should probably ask to have it taken down regardless of their decision will be, because i think i can do better. thank you as well sephire, its really cool that we both happened to mix the same piece, im gonna have to go check yours out now ill see about integrating more reverb, which is a good point since it is an orchestral piece, it'd better have the grandness of an orchestra hall. The piano i think is one of many things that needs the nice touch of velocity management so that will be project number next. lol thanks guys! i honor and respect both of your opinions greatly, having listened to your music here at ocr (although your words speak for themselves regardless of your music)

ok so i dont know if im allowed to do this or not, but im posting my song thats currently being judged right now. Game: Final Fantasy 10 Song: People of the North Remix name: The Wisdom of Gagazet The reason i am posting this song, is after getting a lot of input on this site, i think it might be rejected after understanding the standards of the judges. Since that may be the case, i was hoping to get some input about the song so i can preemptively start working on it. I know ive got 2 other mixes in the works, but this song really takes precedence. If you listen to it i think youll understand why. Ok that being said, to me this is not just any song, and requires a little bit of background explanation. When i first heard this song i always loved it. In fact it burned itself into my memory quite permanently, to the point where i made up counter melodies to it in my head. It came to the point where i had to re-make it. Originally i remixed this as a drum and bass song a few years ago. However, it seemed like such a powerful song, that it needed to be more. Ive slaved over this song for a long long time, and its probably the best song ive ever written, or will write. Ok, this part you wont understand (well maybe if you hear the song). It makes me feel one with the universe. It makes me feel connected to everything. Its almost like my piece of enlightenment. It makes me love this world and all in it. It makes me want to wish happiness for every person on this planet. It makes me want to pick up those who have fallen on the walk of life and carry them the rest of the way. To stand triumphant and awestruck together at the crest of the first horizon. Ok, im sure that sure that sounds really fucking cheezy to some people but i dont care. I have infinite emotional attachment to this piece. ANYWAY, the reason it is here, like i said, is it could probably use some work. IE, my usual EQ, bass and velocity problems. So, if anyone has specific gripes on what i should work on, please do. I want this song to be perfect in every way. It simply has to be. The Wisdom of Gagazet

honestly use another one, i hate that site. Mediafire and tindeck are really good, just google search them. Less people will look at it if its not easy to get to, because were all just way too lazy lol

Okay, I've had this question for a really really long time. Does anyone know if there is a way to change the tempo mid-song in reason? It is a pain in the butt trying to keep the whole thing in 1 tempo and then change to another by simply arranging the parts, since the loops are a little more difficult to find and the grid is no longer synced. Trying to change back is an even bigger pain. Essentially what i want is to set certain bars at different tempos without it messing up the whole grid. Anybody know? is it possible? p.s. im using reason 2.5 so i dont know if thats different

i think the only time this slow a tempo would be used in dance tempo were if it were put to vocals of some kind. However, i think its a personal preference, and just because its trance doesnt mean it has to be set to a dance bpm. Personally, the bpm didnt feel inappropriate, instead it feels thoughtful and something to be listened to when taking ones time. I think maybe the outro might need some work tho. The eq is great by the way. You get 2 thumbs up from me.

hehe this song reminds me of dj sash and that brings back some good memories. Anyhow, im not sure if there were any key changes, but there were definitely some flat or sharp notes regardless. I pretty much agree with everyone elses input, percussion and bass could come up a bit. Generally they will be the predominant elements of a dance song, so they need to shine. Good work tho! i liked it a lot.

i like the new synths butoden, but it seems like ure big problem is still key usage. There are a lot of flat and sharp notes. Are you familiar with how chords are built? I am assuming you may need to learn a few basics to help become informed on where and how note usage in chords is appropriate and inappropriate. Im not bashing you or anything, i can get a general feel of the theme and what your trying to do, there are just a few wrong notes holding you back. I would suggest looking at some online tutorials for reference (that ones not the best, sorry). What would be a really quick fix at least for now though, is to just go through your song very slowly and meticulously, and compare it to the real song note for note. In fact if you can get them to the same tempo and play them simultaneously, that might be the way to go. Good luck, good work, but definitely needs to be in key!

well roz like he said its a wip, and i think your off to a good start. It may be my headphones but it seemed like the bass could come up a little bit, as well as the drums. As a suggestion, it seems like youve got a good base laid for the next element of whatever direction your gonna take this piece, though i might say some kind of improv piano part or at least developed counter melody would add some nice flavor. If you really wanna spice it up and make it really sound middle eastern, i would try looking for some sound effects to match. I.E. tambourines, finger cymbals, maybe a sitar as another instrument, or maybe even a doumbec or tar (or something similar). That would really make it cool. Just as a side note, i may be wrong, but it i remember correctly, that music in the game was heavily influenced by spanish music. I.E. had a lot of castanets and flamenco guitar, but whatever who the hell cares lol. Lastly, i might consider putting some reverb on that guitar to make it a little more three dimensional. The problem with synths imitating real instruments is that they need a lot of cosmetics. Looking forward to hearing the update!

ok changes so far: bass eq is slightly higher and now has more of a saw feel bass drum eq is slightly higher and softer the synth in the beginning is now lofi-ish i hope the eq is a little better in this one, i read up on the forums how each instrument should kinda be occupying its own frequency so as not to get mashed together, and thats what i tried to do. I tested it on my big sound system and it seems to be coming out fine on mine, though ive probably been listening to it so long now i cant tell the difference. let me know how it sounds to you guys. http://www.mediafire.com/?9y0dlticm1j

wow not bad for just starting out in reason! sounds pretty good imo. i might suggest maybe putting a reverb on some of the synths or percussion to help kinda smooth out some of the blending effects youve got goin on, but just a little you dont need much. Will be interesting to hear lyrics for this, do you know what ure gonna put to it? anyhow good work, ive been using reason for years and i wasnt that good when i started

no, thats a good point i actually i turned up the eq dramatically on the bass drum and switched out, so maybe ill switch it agian or find a different one. Either way i agree with you about the guitar work, theyre kinda just in there until i can make some real samples (which is not possible atm) but ill definitely experiment with the bass structures. Thanks for the input