I-n-j-i-n

Is SNK even trying anymore? They're pulling a Sega on everyone.

I thought 2k3 and 2k4 ones were just fine. And UT only had a few really outstanding tracks, though those were so good, it made them way more memorable than most soundtracks.

Great news for 360 fans I guess, because Ninja Gaiden 2 will become a full exclusive. It's almost a foregone conclusion that it'll be the best action game ever made if they can even marginally improve on the first game.

I think Prince Ephraim in Fire Emblem Sacred Stones would be great because for one, he is a spear wielder.

I don't know what types of DVDs anyone is getting, but they tend to be around $20 for a hefty, fully featured one. Barebone DVDs do not interest me. Likewise to HD-movies, though the high def itself makes it worth it IMO. The only time I don't care at all is with anime since they're only now being animated into high definition transfers. I would love to own a high definition FF7: Advent Children though, since that is so clearly made in digital high definition. And personally, the formats' companies aren't too much of an issue if at all. At least for the Bluray/HD-DVD playback, they all reportedly work just fine. Also, I wonder if Sony 'pushing Bluray' really is a sour point anymore. Because it's one of the few things the console is useful for. But I might as well get a dual Bluray/HD-DVD player sometime down the road. Or give in to a PS3 if Metal Gear Solid 4 and other games' reviews are skyhigh.

I think $30 for a really good, HD feed movies are worth it. I only buy like 3 movies a year so I don't really sink money into them anyway unless they are REALLY worth it.

I think the best way would be the Baldur's Gate 2/Bhaal's Throne way: When you use powers too much, you become the demon you were leeching your power off of. You don't get disabled. You don't get weakened. You just turn into the demon. Game Over. Samus turns into Dark Samus. Game Over.

I actually think we made a lot of headway with the discussion. And really, this one issue has been a stickingpoint for Metroid Prime games since the beginning. I doubt the argument will go away forever either, elsewhere.

On the record, FPS games aren't even close to my favorite genres. Also, if I put on air that made it seem like nobody appreciates FPS games, that wasn't my intention. I was talking more about the things that are basically taken granted in gaming genre conventions. Even if people enjoy games like Halo greatly, a lot of Halo fans even see the first player as an appetizer for the multiplayer. Even Unreal fans may have forgotten that the sense of adventure in the first Unreal was what really kickstarted the entire FPS genre into having more of a sense of large scale adventure, epic sci-fi settings and more. We just take what we can get and have fun but not necessarily appreciate them from a game theory perspective of what they brought to the table as a genre. Certainly individual appreciation has a bit to do with it as well, but I'm not specifically naming each individual (at least not in this thread) of not being appreciative about it. Perhaps a bit misinformed at times with some non-FPS gamers maybe, but that is completely understandable. I never insinuated anyone was the duller for not acknowledging it. I just think a lot of this is politicized since Retro themselves have been tagging it as 'not your average shooter', which is completely right, but that basically created a lot of rift in this issue which should not even be happening at all. It almost is like how Metal Gear Solid developers and Kojima always tried to shy away from their occasional 3rd person/1st person perspective in its games even when they blatantly copy something like the Splinter Cell camera system or even bother putting a distance from it and other action/shooter games. I mean, I just think parting entire games and series from other games is just silly in ideal if they generally follow the same kind of a system as the other games of their ilk. I mean, surely a Metal Gear is not the same as some film licensed shooter with little new gameplay in there and Final Fantasy games are definitely in a much higher calibur than something like the Suikoden series for the most part. But they are all a part of the same clay. I can agree in spirit that such games can stand out from their genres and the typical conventions that goes with their label. But technically, I can't help but disagree. The one thing I can disagree with that is that Metroid isn't a total lame duck in its shooting department. It's just a bit rustic and oldschool in how it does it with the typical 'aim for the weakspot!' aspect of the first Metroid games. Nothing wrong with that. In a sense, I equate Metroid games to the NES shooters in a way. It's ironic because I can make a similar argument for the oldschool Metroid games because the most basic premise of Metroid games is that of a 2D shooter, but it so heavily emphasizes the sense of adventure and exploration, it becomes an adventure at the foremost. That is the gist of my explanation in saying that Metroid Prime games are FPS games at their very core, but the adventure elements takes over it.

Um. You are just oversimplifying your description of Call of Duty games because that game is all about creating the warlike atmosphere that can't really be done in a multiplayer setting with all the chaos. It's more like controlled chaos they're going for. That and a lot of motion, mission-sensitive moments and events. CoD games are on an entire another level when it comes down to bringing in the warlike atmosphere. While UT games traditionally replicate the online modes into singleplayer too. And obviously, the tournament set up UT games present for singleplayer. Also, if you're going by the commonality alone, that is simply too vague and it's not even worth getting into. Collecting items? How is collecting Sonic Rings to propagate Super Sonic powers the same thing as collecting gears that can give you weapons upgrades? They are extremely vague and too dumbed down to be used credibly in an argument. Even look at Prime. You jump and shoot "HURRR THEY ARE THE SAMES". Right. Just when you just generalized a bunch of FPS games, you are saying you aren't. I'm not even arguing this. You're doing that yourself. I was talking about the lack of appreciation not for the enjoyment or variety of FPS games. Pay attention. I was talking about how people openly and basely use the old analogy that FPS games are "only about run and gun" and how the sense of adventure isn't there. Because there clearly are. And a lot of people mention 'slapping on' the FPS branding, but I simply do not see it in a derogatory manner at all since it IS a shallow branding as it is for vast majority of FPS games that focus on totally different game styles. This 'debate' as you put it, did put some worthy arguments out I believe. If you believe otherwise, then kindly stop with the simplistic disparagements. I said before that I see it as a matter of fact that Metroid is an FPS game at its most basic level. And once you delve into its mechanics at all, it's obviously an adventure game. This is not about convincing anyone at all. This is just fact to me. They are first person. They are played in first person. But again, most reviewers and gamers in the know know that the games go beyond the FPS conventions and control schemes. If can't make it any more easy to understand than how I put it in that one sentence. I never dragged anyone into anything. The whole "separate Metroid Prime games from ALL first person styled games" thing just irks me that's all. As I said, it's a shallow tag no matter what type of FPS games you talk about nowadays. Also, I don't know why people seemingly tag me into the whole "HALO IS SAMES AS METROID HURRRRRRRR" category. That's funny because the counterpoint bothers bringing up Halo at all. I fully understand Prime games are Metroid at heart 100%. That has absolutely nothing to do with the game working like a FPS game in its most basic, technical form.

I don't care either way either. Give me a lousy/shitty/tinny MIDI and I'd be fine too. But technically, they have no excuses as usual. Especially for a company the size and pedigree of Nintendo, getting at least slightly better sounding sound should be a non issue. But APPARENTLY, it is. So really, I don't think the complaints can be shot down entirely. Also, the erotic fanart is remade: http://kasuga39.free100.tv/image/nintendo_02and03.png I don't know half of those new girls.

Some movies are so good or such a good experience in the screen, it is totally worth it. Compare that to listening to teenage kids yelling "THAT IS GAY" in Spiderman 3 or Transformer showings. Even with Jackass 2 on the theaters, it was sorta exciting to see a whole slew of college kids whooping at every joke. Then there was Borat where the theater was actually filled with 40+ somethings gasping and choking at all the nude antics. Superbad is in the better category. Worth the lousy theater seating.

I thought most Nintendo fans would wish Nintendo would release these 'SUPER ULTIMATE' versions of their consoles (especially handhelds in the last 5 years..) instead of them going the iPod path or even the PS3 path. Dropping the older systems systematically (pun) and pushing a sorta/kinda newer system out there. Though really, internal hard drive idea has been floating around a while so I fully expect it to happen within a year, maybe even less. And I'll have to buy it like a sucker again.

I agree, but most reviewers aren't heaping it with praise of originality and gamers are getting the hint that it's going to be Capcom gravy train. Business as usual. I mean, I play the games loyally and like them a lot. But I can see how it's falling out of favor with gamers a bit recently.

On another note: Possibly one of the most erotic fanart I've ever seen for SSB series

The Host. One of the most fun not-quite-horror, not-quite-comedy shows of the last year. Asian cinema is great like that. Once or twice a year, they release huge bombs (not in a bad way).

You're right. >emoticon< And really AarowSwift, I think it all has to do with considering FPS as a genre and as a convention. Because they are not exactly exclusive to one another. Metroid is the perfect example why it's not. It's at both an FPS but not an FPS in the assumption people have of it as a genre in terms of what most people regard to it in a 'conventional' sense of having a robust multiplayer mode to go along with it. In that sense, it's not the same. And yet the singleplayer, it has more in common than people may think.

I actually agree with some of what that review is saying (even when it's a lot of trolling a lot of nagging points that are just nagged to be funny about it). The hacking system is fully retarded and it could have worked way better in all seriousness.

The kind of argument that 'true shooters' are against the types of Prime is that there aren't too many 'true shooters' nowadays. Most game developers are basing them off of some specific theme and atmosphere instead of basing it entirely on running and gunning. Even with the earliest games like Doom and Quake, it was more about the suspense of fighting frightening monsters in dark corridors and maze-like levels and not entirely based on running and gunning. And like many have said, if you're talking about fast paced multiplayer modes, that may make sense but not with the singleplayer campaigns of the games. I mean, I think I can only piece that kind of argument if we're talking about Serious Sam and Metroid Prime. That and maybe Time Shifters, which didn't even try with any sort of a coherent story.

You're just assuming a lot here. I never said Metroid Prime games aren't different because they clearly are. They basically mix the mechanics of a FPS game with the traditional Metroid gameplay. Without the either, it wouldn't be Metroid Prime, period. And I never said anything about anyone not completely enjoying FPS games. I was talking about APPRECIATION of the single player experience of FPS games. And to me, it seems that even the most avid FPS gamer don't necessarily get into the depth and nuances of the single player adventure experience since most of the FPS connotation comes from the controversy in mass media, to the multiplayer aspect. I mean, not many will play Halo 3 singleplayer after they've gone through the Legendary mode three or four times. The multiplayer traditionally has been the talk of the town for FPS games and when it comes down to discussions like these, people always assume something derogatory or simplistic descriptor for FPS games which is getting so insanely biased and undescriptive, it's just nonsensical to make. Yes, Metroid Prime games stand on their own as of now, but that doesn't separate them entirely from other FPS games that has been more adventure-driven, more single-player driven and etc. Um. It IS true. Just so you need to be told this directly, I was specifically talking about the singleplayer experience. Did I ever get into Metroid Hunters or MP2's multiplayer? "hurrrrrr. you still frag people." Same thing if we're talking multiplayer. A Call of Duty game is specifically a war-emulator on top of its generic FPS descriptor. Compare that to Bioshock which is basically a bit of a suspense/sci-fi game. Compare that to FarCry which is almost entirely based on survival at times. Singleplayer wise, the experience can vary vastly. You're just going on and on about how they're all the same, and again, if I do the same to platformers, how would it pan out?: Compare Sonic the Hedgehog games to Ratchet and Clank and see how similar they are. Because they simply aren't. I'm not even talking about the FPS convention anymore, but how people blatantly dismiss FPS as a genre and as something to be 'slapped on' something and think that's a real argument, no less a balanced or insightful one. Considering their wishywashiness in some development news, it's not surprising. Remember how much they said Twilight Princess won't make it to the Wii? They were pretty vehement about it too. I really wish they utilize Intelligent Systems again. There really is no need to tinker with success, as far as the consistency of Intelligent Systems goes. Also, they need Sega onboard more because they seem to do a bit better developing for Nintendo games than even their own Sega games at times.

I see no reason to malign Blue Dragon just because of that. Personally, I'm itching to play something traditional. Also, the traditional gameplay is a love it or a hate it deal. I'm just glad the system at least has a JRPG now even if it's painfully traditional. That, and the next Sakaguchi project, Lost Odyssey truly looks like an original premise. It seems like Blue Dragon was an elaborate test run on the 360.

Then your initial insight on FarCry isn't accurate at all. See, this is where I think an argument against "run and gun FPS" or "you only use environments for cover" is a bit suspect. Because in some FPS games, if you "run and gun", you're going to die plain and simple. Some games put more emphasis on more meaningful exploration aspects that goes beyond just getting enough cover. In games like FarCry, you have a lot more to worry about than just cover. There are entire paths you can venture and you don't even need to fight through 99% of the game if you're good at avoiding enemies and find ways to get through stages without confrontations. Listen. Nobody is saying which is shallow or not. Let's not start disparaging other games in order to elevate another here. Also, Metroid games in their core utilize power ups to enable you to move from one stage to the next. In a way, it's a more equipment-based exploration game. The game itself doesn't facilitate it like Mercenaries would due to that game's open ended nature itself. Metroid games simply puts a very good illusion of adventure due to a few multiple paths, open passageways and a lot of dead ends and other environmental puzzles. In that sense, Metroid games are more akin to King's Quest than anything else. That game too, was about getting the proper equipment (not just keys, but spells and other trinkets) to be able to explore the world further. I don't see why one has to be shallow or not. They are just different types of adventure aspects in games such as these. Oblivion in the early 90's would clearly have been labeled as a first perspective RPG. "FPS" again, is a catch all term here. And again, I feel that distinction through genres is far too vague and shallow to do each franchises proper justice. But in Metroid's case, you at least shoot. In the most vague term, MP games are therefore FPS games at least in how it is designed from a superficial point of view. Again, if you bother to delve into it any further, it's pretty obvious that it is an adventure title. Really, I think just a general 'adventure' game would suffice. Mixing the term First Person with another genre just sounds overlong to me. Deus Ex is definitely a First Person RPG, and yet who even uses that term even when it is clearly the most correct descriptor? Labels simply do not matter a whole lot here. Well, there are ways to exploit the environment in Oblivion too. Such as having a cliff between you and the enemy or even a barrel to maneuver around in a close combat fight. Then there's the cheap trick to just stand on a rock where close combat enemies can't even touch you while you wail away with spells. I have to disagree there since a LOT of FPS games nowadays offer the ability to sneak through or figure out the best route or method to get by. Even though it's 3rd person, games like Lost Planet, you use the grappling gun to basically avoid needless encounters or to reach the destination more efficiently. Then there are games like Thief where you don't even have to kill anything except for priority targets. In terms of what the game tries to accomplish, it doesn't mean a whole lot. If you say it's such a trivial thing, then there is no shame in calling Prime games FPS games at least on their surface due to its mechanics. The same with Deus Ex, it is an FPS game on the surface, but it's hardly a run and gun game either. In terms of what the games tries to accomplish, putting it in a FPS genre is no big deal. FPS is not only a genre, but it's also just the simple mechanics of the games themselves. Is Metroid Prime game a 3rd person adventure/shooter? No. Is it a 2D shooter? obviously not. It is a first person shooter/adventure series. In how the game works. They can't possibly be made by accident. Even in their earliest years, level designers for FPS games were looked upon like rock stars and look where John Carmack and Cliff Bleszinski ended up. Hell, they still are rock stars of gaming today not just because they know how to make good FPS games in itself, but how they made their names known through making great level designs and putting out a great singleplayer experiences akin to a first person adventure (albeit, mainly about shooting obviously). I never explicitly said that any games outside free roaming games can't be non-linear. The exploration aspect of Castletroid games or other FPS games that are heavily adventure/exploration oriented at least give that much of a better illusion of open ended gameplay. Even in Metroid games where the exploration is foremost, there is still always the single path to follow outside the unintentional short cuts and exploitation of the level designs. Just the same, a lot of newer FPS games don't exactly make it specifically clear that the next destination is only a cardkey away. FPS games, like how it is maligned as being straightforward all the time, I think developers are taking cue of that and at least putting in the effort to diversify the adventure aspect as long as the games are largely single player experiences. I wasn't stating whether there weren't similarities or not or anyone's specific experiences with the games. But as I said time and time again, even the FPS veterans don't seem to grasp the design of the adventure aspects in singleplayer experiences of the FPS games. Yes, not too many games are as focused upon them like the Prime games are. I never argued that at all. I never said it is equatable to Halo, which is the whole foregone conclusion a lot of people seems to make with this issue when I don't even see a correlation at all. But the adventure aspects in FPS games are not total no-shows like people seems to make it sound. Imagine if someone compared something like Sly Cooper and Mario directly because of the genre status of them being 'platformers'. And yet both plays a world apart. I'm saying that is the case for a lot of FPS games and games that heavily use the first person aspect as its focal point of telling a story or basing the action upon. I think that is precisely why people should not even bother differentiating them by genres. "slapping on" the label of FPS is nonsensical to me. I never said Prime games should be stuck as a FPS game by description in retail. Just in that its mechanics works like any other FPS game with some noted exception of Metroid-style upgrades and gadgetry. Try this analogy: If someone is given a copy of Unreal Tournament 3 then they get Call of Duty 3, would the experience be the same? Of course not. One is definitely a sci-fi affair while the other is more of a historical/war game affair. Most PC game magazines and other reviewers don't even bother with the FPS labels in their reviews. Because it's often the content that decides what kind of game it ends up being. In that sense, it's not unrealistic at all to wish that people simply not see games through the label of "FPS" outside superficial categorization for superficial people. It's not about changing minds. Metroid is simply structured as any other FPS games are at least in interface and control and the general movement and restrictions associated with FPS games. That is pretty much a fact. Again, I never even delved into the actual point of Metroid games. I mean I consider myself a pretty hardcore Metroid game fan on top of most Nintendo franchises, and I just do not see the relevance of 'slapping on' the FPS label has to do with anything. With ignorant and superficial gamers, they're going to remain ignorant anyway. PS- Sorry for the insanely long post. I didn't stick to every point, but really tried to discuss it through. And this happens when I reply to everyone at once...

I agree in spirit, but not how that is put. Adventure gaming was a PC staple (in fact, adventure games basically started on the PC and it's only fairly recently when they were put to use by console gaming franchises) and even in the earliest FPS games like Unreal and Quake, the suspense of turning the dark corner and literally venturing out into the creepy dungeons and mazes of the levels was crucial. The shooting part was almost secondary if you even bother taking in the scenery beyond speeding through the levels. Metroid games simply have their own way, but FPS games have had a lot of focus on the adventure aspect, though not as heavily as Metroid games might. Games like Metroid Prime never had a wide open space to do whatever missions you want to, nor do you literally have to traverse and fight through a literal jungle with all its hidden nooks and crannies to get through to the next crucial area. Even Rapture, though somewhat fairly straightforward in mission structure, it's all about the atmosphere and the way enemies interact with one another to create the sense of adventure. And with something like Thief, the adventure aspect is entirely hinged upon the best vantagepoint to snipe an enemy from then hide from view. I simply don't think it's as simple as 'taking on adventure' elements. Metroid always has been a mix of traditional action and adventure to me. You get power ups, you get bosses, you get the crucial upgrade to be able to move more freely, etc. The Prime games as I see it, is a combination of traditional Metroid and a bit of tactical FPS style games. Though when it comes down to actual tactics in a battle, FPS games have excelled at that for more than a decade. I think Prime series is a combination of it all. Not a total isolation from them. Blame Retro for venturing that path then. With not one but two games with multiplayer modes that is basically tacked on. Though Hunters was pretty good, it never felt like a traditional Metroid. You answered your own question. It's all superficial. If you want to know about a game, play them and read about them. That's the problem I see with your argument actually. You're clumping FPS games into the same kind of ignorance that people have when it comes down to separating them. A Duke Nukem is not the same as FarCry or Ghost Recon or Undying or Marathon and etc. Even amongst FPS games, there are differences that makes them stand out. FPS is just a gaming convention and the format. That label hardly describes the games themselves fairly or precisely enough. This argument itself proves that. You're getting a bit too twisted over this. You say it's trivial, then why the need to forcibly call it an adventure game as if the First Person label means anything? That doesn't add up. And again, why does the label even matter with Metroid games specifically? Everybody who plays games knows what the series is. If a newbie has questions, they'll find out about the adventure elements. They are not monkeys who get stuck up about a genre label. It is plainly labeled as an adventure/FPS title in most gaming stores and to the uninformed and parent-types, it is a first-person-shooter. You are in first person, and you shoot. You don't negotiate with aliens. You don't cast magic and play around in a field. You shoot. That is its most literal term. You can't consider all FPS games to be "FPS Adventure" or "FPS puzzle" or "FPS fighting" or "FPS RPG" or "FPS with RPG elements" and expect that to do any justice to what the game itself tries to convey. That is plainly disingenuous. Imagine calling Heretic a FPS/Adventure/Fantasy/Magic game or something longwinded. To an insane Heretic fan, it may make sense. But it's still an FPS. You can look up or play the demo or read a review and find out how the game is like. Not rocket science. I agree Metroid is built as an adventure game first, but the FPS aspect is not entirely out of the picture if at least because of the genre convention of the format itself. You strafe, you jump, and even the controls and switching guns/weapons has the true FPS feel to it, though Retro did the best job of the jumping mechanics like with Metroid games. And you say it's a personal experience and I agree. To me, the entire FPS genre is being too looked down upon. Even amongst relatively hardcore gamers or even those who play them, there's not enough appreciation for how far FPS games have come. And even with older FPS games, the sense of adventure was foremost with the singleplayer modes. Just because the mulitplayer and twitch gameplay is more widely known, it doesn't magically make the adventure aspect of the games disappear. Also, some retailers don't bother with the "FPS" label since it could be 3rd person or something almost 100% akin to FPS games like with Mercenary, Splinter Cell or Gears of War. It's just "shooter". And Metroid can be definitely be seen as a 'shooter' and 'adventure' in that category. But I still say that the FPS is exactly the convention of Metroid at its core while its entire gameplay is still adventure-based in the Metroid convention. The FPS label really should not be used disparagingly IMO. It's just a genre. Whatever negative connotations you may put on it is of your own subjectivity. Not the genre or the perception even. Metroid is a Metroid as long as they keep to the spirit of it.

I think you have Paper Mario and Super Paper Mario mixed up. Super Paper Mario is very linear for the most part. Paper Mario had more exploration happening.

Why do you make it sound like FPS games are bad for it? Even Doom games had a similar structure with the unlocking of doors and a lot of other games including System Shock and games of similar ilk had pretty good puzzle elements from the level design alone. I simply don't think it matters to differentiate. The only differentiating factor to me is that it's a Metroid game. No more no less. You can, but it's not designed to. Especially not with Prime games. Even with 2D Metroid games, they create a very good illusion of open ended gameplay, but the path is pretty set if you can figure out the exploratory aspect. You just described a lot of FPS games. It just seems to me that people have a lot of misconceptions of other FPS games on top of talking about Metroid games. Keep it to Metroid Prime, not trampling on all the merits of all FPS games under the sun. Again, what need is there to differentiate? The sole differentiating factor should be that it's a Metroid. FPS games are quite deeper than what people give credit for. There's the 'run and gun types' like Serious Sam, the 'epic' types such as Half Life, the tactical types like the Tom Clancy games, the old/extinct/only-Morrowind RPG style, the relatively open ended types, the multiple path types like Deus Ex and others. That's what happens when you focus too much on one thing when you're trying to discuss everything else about FPS and making sweeping generalizations like this. You know what the star of Mercenary truly was? North Korea itself. Star of FarCry? Obviously the jungle island. Star of Bioshock? Rapture. Then that means they are misinformed, hasty gamers who need to do better research. Also, I don't think gamers are really that retarded. Anyone who played games can differentiate Portal from Postal. I'd almost agree except Metroid is still an FPS game. I think people are twisting that into something derogatory, but FPS games nowadays are getting more involving all the time. Wait a few years until the next great "action adventure FPS" game comes alone made by a 3rd party. I think classifying it as a Metroid FPS is good enough. FPA is not worth putting out as a genre when it's only a handful few games doing it. The reason for putting things in a genre or categorization is to separate a large number of games from one another. There really is no need. Prime games are Metroid that happens to be done in a FPS style perspective and display structure. Also, I do agree that FPS is a catchall phrase. In that sense, Metroid Prime is no exception. Even the developers put in the multiplayer in TWO of the Prime games to acknowledge the similarity to the FPS roots as much as it is a Metroid/Adventure title. It's like calling visual game novels as 'eroge' (erotic game) even when some of them don't even have any eroticism in there.