The Coop

Just wanted to say thanks once more before the merging happens shortly(ish)

On the offhand chance this thread gets axed or locked due to the current gathering of complaints over B-Day threads, I just wanted to say thanks to you guys

Oh sure, NOW it gets to be too much, now that someone made one for EdgeCrusher and I in the main forum for the first time. Y'ALL JUST UNMODDER HATIN'!

Well, here's the swf file... http://www.geocities.com/arforfaborb/TanGame_BG1.swf Wingless- It's currently running at 20fps. If you intend to go higher with this, let me know and I'll adjust it to that fps (fix up the duration of the cars passing through, sign timing, etc.).

I have a question for those more familiar with Flash than I. How the hell do you export a gif from Flash, with the proper colors being displayed? I've tried basically every single setting in Flash MX 2004, and every one of them comes out with the grays looking green, and the lighter blues getting pink... and that's the best one. The rest of the settings look horrid. The colors are fine as a Flash file, but as a gif? Ugh. Am I missing something, or if this just a quirk in this version of Flash? I ask because I wanted to post a preview of the (possibly) finished background, but this color issue is driving me up a wall.

What the...? It was there. Must have accidentally hit something during one of my sig changes. Or else it's sabotage. But yes, tax and my b-day are one and the same. Thanks amarriedmegaphone, and Mr. Raptor

Because people would burn Nintendo to the ground if they had to pay $500 for a VC game at $1 per Wii point Anyway it makes sense, by US currency standards anyway... 1 Wii point = 1 penny 1 dollar = 100 pennies 100 VC points = 100 pennies/1 dollar. Fits together pretty well. And be glad that currency exchange rates don't factor into it. If it did, US kids would be paying $2 for 100 points, or $20 for 1,000. The VC would probably die off here if that happened.

Now you're just arguing semantics. You know as well as I that both terms can easily refer to the same types of games I honestly don't see why it mystifies you, considering what I've said thus far. The way things were in the 8bit and 16bit era got just as old at times as the current crop of stuff, since the mature and more realistic worlds were few and far between in relation to everything else being put out at the time. Having that become the norm again, with realism and such being put into the current "odd" and "oddball" games' role, isn't what I would wish for. As I said, I'd rather have a balance of the two. Oldschool zaniness in story, graphics and sound, and modern day realism in the same things... both getting an equal share on the shelves. I did read your post. Here's your post that I responded to... You have to cut me some slack since the above quote I was going off of doesn't say some of the things you said you were talking about in it. If it had, I wouldn't have been discussing those points since we seem to have similar views on them (more plausible to make games in the past single handedly, consoles being tougher to program for today over back then, modern consoles usually needing bigger dev teams for their games). However, where we seem to differ, is on the "widely distributed" thing. With the Internet as it is today, those small indie companies can distribute their games worldwide without the need of a big publishing giant (and its criteria). This is thanks to downloadable purchases, and on-line shops that deal regularly with the homebrew scene (here and abroad). And with XBox Live, Sony's and Nintendo's online dealies, and others getting into the whole homebrew thing with their original on-line offerings, those indie companies have about as good a chance at getting their work into the public eye as before. Sure, it doesn't get the exposure in stuff like mainstream magazines/websites and such, but it's not exactly hidden either. Also, I quoted that final sentence earlier, and brought up the games I did, for this simple reason... I don't see a game being made by a single person (or small dev team), and having it become popular with modern gamers, as unlikely. I see it as still quite possible. It doesn't take a big budget with a big publisher to make a great game and get it noticed. It takes a good dev team, and the means to get it easily into peoples' hands. And these days, there are more ways to do that. I know some of that's idealistic, and people are likely going to pick it apart with "pie in the sky" and "wishful thinking" commentary. But considering all the homebrew games I've heard about just from people talking about them on-line in and real life over the years, I feel there's truth in it Yeah, the homebrew scene was comparatively bigger and more influential back then. That's something else we agree on. I think that's because of the size of the gaming market at that time. The gaming world has exploded both as a hobby, and as a business, since then. However, I also feel that the homebrew world is still churning away at roughly the same level it was then (perhaps more so in some ways). It just looks lessened because everything around it got so big.

You said it yourself... He wants the oddball games and scenarios to become the norm, not the exception. In the 8bit and 16bit days, a good number of people wanted to be treated to more adult, or grown up stories, because most of what was out there was "silly" with odd tales about hedgehogs, plummers, and guys fighting old horror movie monsters. They didn't want to always be treated like kids when it came to game content. Now, those same people want to be treated to those oddball tales, because most of what's out there is realistic stuff. They went from one end of the spectrum to the other. If this guy wanted a nice balance of the two, then he would have been pining for the 32bit era, up to about the Dreamcast, where oddness and reality were pretty balanced overall. We got the realism and the outlandish in nice healthy doses. Instead, he was talking solely about the 8bit and 16bit eras, which were dominated by what he's after. That was the norm he liked, when realism "had its place" as he'd put it, but wasn't the dominant aspect in gaming. He specifically pointed to the PS1 era (and the gamers it brought in) as being when the game traits he longs for started going out the window. So, I can't help but think he desires realism in game scenarios to go onto the back burner like the old days, rather than strike a balance between the two sides. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how his rant comes off to me. You know the Dreamcast game Last Hope which was released last year? It was basically created by two people. Should I even bring up Cave Story, or the many homebrew games that have either a very small staff, or just one person behind their creation? They may not get worldwide physical releases that PC games of old did, but they're easily findable for demos, and electronic purchase for download off of various sites. Some even do get physical distribution (mostly in Japan or Europe, but still). The problem is, like the big staff titles (and PC stuff of old), not all of them are very good, and some of that comes from only having one or two people do everything from artistic and gameplay choices, to graphics and music. The small staff scene may have shifted, but it's still there. Also, remember that in the late 70s, games weren't nearly as complicated as they are now. Top of the line graphics were so simplistic, and the coding so basic, that it was very easy to have one person do everything. In the 80s, the better resolutions and pixel capabilities still weren't too bad, so having one to five guys do everything was still very doable. These days, having one person be able to code the graphics, music, algorithms and such is not nearly as feasible... not because gamers demand more, but because the consoles are much more complicated. Perhaps that's why the PC homebrew scene is doing so well. As far as PCs have come, they're the most accessible medium to make a game on. Between things like Flash's Action Script, the infamous Java and Java Script, C++, and even those game making programs, you can become a one man army in the PC gaming world... as long as you have graphical and musical capabilities too

Something tells me he'd be bitching about all the goofy, quirky games if they were the norm. He strikes me as the "never happy" type of gamer, where the grass is always greener at some other point in time... and as a possible Nintendo fanboy (since a lot of his praising is for Nintendo-only games, systems, and people). That last part's not a slam, just an observation. And keep in mind zircon, when video games were first developing on consoles, it was a lot easier to just make worlds be bright and colorful, with oddly shaped characters. Doing realistic stuff didn't come easily with the systems and their capabilities. Once 16bit hit, realism became more feasible. Now, we can create damn near photo-realistic worlds and people. So, that's where more of the focus is. A lot of gamers kept whining about wanting more realism, and now they're getting it. But, I think once game makers get this "real world" phase out of their system, then we'll see them going all over the place in game design regularly again. Right now though, "real world" is the flavor of the day, so you'll just have to dig through the shelves until then. Oh, and did this guy's rant remind anyone else of the whole "hardcore vs mainstream" attitude?

This guy doesn't cover any ground that hasn't been discussed here many times over the years, or in issues of GameFan back in the 90s ("another brown game on PS1" was their thing). However, if he wants to address creative design (or the lack thereof), then perhaps he should have used better examples of games that broke the proverbial mold besides the ones in the last year. Games like Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, where bizarre and personality-laden characters, and equally out there weapons, were the norm. Or perhaps Shadow of the Colossus, where cinematic battles and "HOLY SHI-!"-bosses ruled the roost. Or how about Black and White, Katamari Damacy, Okami, Glover, Giants Citizen Kabuto, and scores of other games over the last fifteen-plus years that thumbed their noses at what was the norm at that time, or went their own direction? He does a fine job lambasting the current generation of designers by pointing to 8bit titles and saying "See how goofy that shit looked and sounded? Why don't you try doing that next?", but he completely jumps over the instances of more modern day "goofy" ideas that did happen in-between now and the 8bit era. And it's this oversight that punches a nasty hole in his "no creativity these days" argument. He's complaining about the games that are being pimped as mainstream titles, while giving no voice to niche stuff that comes out all the time during a given year. What does he expect... the niche and goofy to become mainstream? If it did, would he then start griping about that two years down the road? The creativity is there, it just doesn't always get noticed by people. Maybe he should stop ranting, and try digging around on the store shelves a bit more (or the import shops). He might be surprised at what he comes across.

I don't know. A part of me knows that with Boll at the helm, this movie is going to utterly suck. But in the back of my mind, there's this little nagging question... Boll has been making horrid movies while trying to be mostly serious in atmosphere and mood. This movie looks to be nothing but darker, tongue-in-cheek action humor. What if it actually isn't completely horrid, but instead, is somewhat mildly entertaining (even if it's for the wrong reasons)? I know the chances are like .0001%, but...

Where's Wideruled and his man love MS Paint picture when you need him?

http://media.movies.ign.com/media/778/778320/vids_1.html Will the world have more fodder for their war? We'll know soon enough.

Good to know my brain hasn't been fried just yet. Once you've gotten the time to do your touch ups, let me know and I'll edit in the guitar for you if you'd like. Since the running animation is ten frames, I'll trim the charge animation down to two frames so if fits right in with the running loop. Then you can see if you like the way it works, or if the current guitar stuff needs to be scrapped. The same offer goes for the jumping sprites too

Actually, it wouldn't be too bad to do. The jumping and running animations would only need the torso adjusted. The head and legs could be left alone. I can edit the running animation this evening to show you if you'd like. The only thing that may cause a problem is that the current charging animation is six frames long. This might not sync well with the running animation if it's more than six frames. However, I can trim the charging animation down to two frames if needed without any problems. What makes it six frames now is that the energy going into the guitar is a three frame loop, while the strumming is a two frame loop. It takes six frames for them to even out. However, take out one energy frame, a couple quick adjustments, and POOF!... two frame charging loop By the way, did you post a finished running animation, or am I going nuts? I can't seem to find it, and I could swear I saw it.

The strumming part is supposed to be the idle animation as you continue to hold the button down after being fully charged. It lasts as long as you want it to in theory, and I put it there just so it could be seen. Once you see the power getting drawn in on the tip of the guitar, you'd be ready to fire. That whole process (at 30 fps), takes basically no longer than the MMX games do for their charging shots (about 1.5 seconds). I think it's actually a faster charge at 30fps. Also, after a charged shot, there's always a penalty of sorts... namely, not being able to charge up again or fire right away (for about a second I think). During that time, would be the disappearing animation for the guitar. Anyway, not making excuses or anything. I'm just trying to explain why animated it like I did. If you want me to remove some frames from the guitar appearance and vanishing, I can Edit: Bean- Got the PM and png files. Nice work on that character.

Thanks. If she's facing left, she'll just be mirrored like the old games did it. Making new sprites to be accurate is just too time consuming. Besides... Wingless decreed it a few pages back Anyway, he probably won't want them as animated gifs. I loaded that gif into Flash, set up as a movie symbol that played on one layer, and exported the thing. It was an swf file at 155kb. Nasty bit of inflation there, and it reminded me about how bitmaps increase the size of a Flash file. Sure, it's simple to add, and I'm happy to supply gifs if he wants them since making the gif animate in Flash and Image Ready are reasonably similar in a number of ways. But I fear it would crank up the file size of the finished product needlessly. Still, the offer's there. Out of curiosity, I went into Flash last night and animated that gif. I loaded in the background, the foreground, and an animated gif of the car bouncing along in place. I recreated that scene so it was identical in duration, frames per second (20fps in Flash = a frame delay of 0.05 on a gif), and how many frames it took for the car to go across the screen. The file size of that exported swf? 9.01 kb. Since it only used 8 bitmaps (the BG, the FG, and the six car frames), it kept the file size way down. I'm guessing that's how Wingless will want these background(s) sent to him... either as a finished fla or swf. Edit: One boss and BG huh? Puts a damper on the ideas I had for PPR and Off Topic backgrounds (I really liked the PPR idea ). Ah well. I'll finish up my current BG, and get that wrapped up for usage. As for the intro, I have an idea for it. I sat down and wrote up a little thing for the opening, and a convo with the turtle boss before the fight. I know the story aspect wasn't final or agreed upon by any means, but I wrote it down anyway. I can piece it together if no one has any objections about what I suggested for a story a few pages back. Could probably get it done by tomorrow night. And uh, thanks for sticking around for this Wingless. Bean- Once you're done touching up the turtle boss, throw it my way via PM. I'll see what I can come up with for animations and such.

Heh heh. The guy has balls. I now want a Micheal Bay vs Uwe Boll boxing match.

spuzz- I got that idea for the charge shot done... Thoughts? Artist beatings?