The Coop

Well, if I can go Obama for a moment, I'd like to give a story... A back in my first semester of college, in my Illustration class, the instructor we had was using a form for people to fill out. This came about because over the years of her teaching, she'd grown weary of critiques that went about as far as "I like it" and "I don't like it" from fresh-out-of-High-School college students. When asked why people liked or hated it, they just replied "I just do" half the time, according to her. So, she whipped up a form that covered a lot of bases for what was wrong with a given illustration... stuff like color usage, dead space, composition, negative space, and all sorts of traits. She left a portion of the page's bottom for people to elaborate on their choices, and after each form was filled out, she'd ask people why they felt as they did to each specific area. Sure, it seemed a bit like third grader stuff to me (giving crits was rarely a problem for me), but it got people talking, and got them to delve more deeply into why they felt something was wrong or bad. Up to our class, hardly anyone expanded on why their choices had been made. In fact, she had commented early on that about 75% of the time, that area was either empty, or littered with doodles from people who got done early. I asked her about three or four critiques into the semester, why there weren't any positive choices. She didn't know what I meant. I asked her again why on the list we got, there weren't any positive choices for us to mark off. She said that we could fill all those in at the bottom. I then asked her why, if all her other classes had been deemed too lazy to give oral critiques (resulting in the list in the first place), she felt people would take the time and write in the good points themselves. She thought about it for a few moments, and carried on with the critique. The next crit we had featured a list, with small bubbles to fill in, that rated each area from 1-5 (very good to very poor). After these were filled out, she then went around the room and had everyone explain their choices. The amount of positive feedback people got, coupled with the negative, was great. I could hear what people saw as bad and good in my works. It helped me a lot more than just finding out what was broken, while leaving the rest to mystery, or leaving me wondering if it was something people forgot to mention (as it had been for the first few crits in that class). It allowed me to further develop my strengths in the following assignments, and work on my failures and weak areas as well. I guess in a way, seeing that form on page one reminded me of all that (and the frustration that came of it), and brought me to make the comments that I have. I know this changes nothing in people's opinion with my stance, and I don't expect it to. But hopefully it explains reasonably well why I feel as I do about the form as it stands right now. I'd hate to see remixers who are just getting started, being left in the dark about what's good in their work because no one filled in the bottom of the page as it were. I think it's a great idea at heart, so don't take my critiques as bashing the thing in its entirety. I'm not. That odd form setup got people to improve their feedback levels for that class, and I think this could do the same here. I just feel what it makes easier, could use some expanding. Anyway, I've bothered you guys enough over this. My apologies if I pushed my opinion a bit too hard, or pulled a . Good luck with this, and I hope it results in people getting better help here

Pointless? That's rather disheartening to hear a fellow artist say. Unless the word "critique" has somehow changed in definition in the last six hours, I doubt I've fallen out of any loops. In any good, constructive critique, you will learn what works, what doesn't work, what's cliché, what's interesting, what's dull, what's overdone, and at least a dozen other traits that will bring up the pros and cons of what you're presenting. Some points will be purely opinion, some will be factual, and others will be guided by a set of rules that are generally adhered to in that particular art form. This is true for the visual, aural and written arts. And frankly, my lack of submissions here has nothing to do with knowing what a good critique is. Focusing on nothing but the negative aspects, without bringing up what you feel are the positives (if there are any), can be destructive. Talking about nothing but the positive aspects, without stating what you feel are the negatives (if there are any), can be destructive. In both of those scenarios, something stands a good chance of being overlooked, passed over, or possibly lost, because it wasn't given a voice for whatever reason. If you want to get people to critique the WIPs of this place... to really critique them... then you can't leave out one side or the other. Both must be covered to truly benefit the person who's work is being looked at. That doesn't mean pussy-footing around the facts to soften the blow, or being a complete dick in how you put forth your opinion. It means you give truthful, matter-of-fact points as you see them, and let them know what you feel is good and bad. To do otherwise, is doing the artist a disservice in my opinion. I know you're trying to streamline things zircon, and I understand the motives behind it. Getting useful info into the hands and heads of remixers is something this site has been fighting with since the day it started receiving WIPs from people other than djp. Unfortunately, the way you're setting this up, to me, is downplaying half the useful info that can benefit the remixers... and that's bad (m'kay?). Edit: Keep in mind, this isn't a personal attack or anything, zircon. I'm not insinuating any lack of knowledge on your part, as I'm only discussing this thread's topic of the form.

No one's suggesting playing nice and walking on egg shells with people, DU (at least, I don't think they are). But if someone views an aspect of a WIP as something that works or has potential, it's every bit as important that they bring it up, and not just focus solely on what's wrong.

Because the positives are as much a part of a critique as the negatives. And, if something is going to thoroughly cover one, it should do the same with the other... IMO mind you. Of course, there may be no positives to fill out should the WIP be that bad, but still... Anyway, seems I'm in the minority with my opinion about the list, but I've said my piece on it now. Edit: Typos and expansion.

I hardly think this thing would be bloated, zircon. If you want to make things easier for people to point and say "That's bad, m'kay?", then why not make the effort so that's it's just as easy to say "Oooh... that's good". Why give only one side of the issue a checklist? ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION [ ] Too liberal - not enough connections to the source (too much original writing) [ ] A little liberal- a good amount of the source is present, but it still has more original writing than source. [ ] Well balanced- a good amount of the source is present, with some original work to accent it [ ] A little conservative- the source is clearly present, but there isn't enough original writing to break up or enhance it [ ] Too conservative - sticks too close to the source (nearly a midi rip) [ ] Borrows heavily from non-source material (eg. a theme from a movie) [ ] Too much direct sampling from original game audio PRODUCTION [ ] Too loud [ ] A little loud [ ] Good volume [ ] A little quiet [ ] Too quiet [ ] Low-quality samples [ ] Passable samples [ ] Good samples [ ] Unrealistic sequencing [ ] Borderline sequencing [ ] Good sequencing [ ] Generic/cliche sound choices [ ] Some questionable sound choices [ ] Good sound choices [ ] Drums have no energy [ ] Drums are decent, but could use more life [ ] Good drums [ ] Overcompressed (pumping/no dynamics) [ ] Good compression [ ] Undercompressed (bland/no dynamics [ ] Encoding too low/lossy [ ] Encoding sounds good [ ] Encoding unnecessarily high PERFORMANCE (live recorded audio/MIDI parts) [ ] Timing not tight enough [ ] Timing is decent in most areas [ ] Timing is good through much of the mix [ ] Wrong notes, general sloppiness [ ] Poorly recorded [ ] Iffy recording (could be improved) [ ] Good recording [ ] Bad intonation [ ] Some spots of questionable intonation [ ] Good intonation STRUCTURE [ ] Lacks coherence overall (no "flow") [ ] Some areas have a better "flow" to them than others [ ] Good "flow" through much, if not all, of the piece [ ] Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) [ ] A good balance of textures and dynamic shifts in sounds [ ] Too many changes in sounds (eg. over textured, dynamics being disrupted by constant shifts) [ ] Pace too plodding [ ] Pace is alright, but could use some shifts [ ] Good pacing and/or pacing shifts [ ] Too repetitive [ ] Could use some source melodies repeated [ ] Too short [ ] Could use more expansion in places [ ] Some parts are a little too drawn out [ ] Too long [ ] Abrupt ending [ ] Good ending choice [ ] Ending too drawn out OTHER COMMENTS See? It's not that much bigger, and I'm sure you and the other judges could come up with better ways to word the mid-range and positive sides. Perhaps I'm alone in thinking this, but "Other Comments" should be about expanding on why your rating choices were made, and not be allotted to finally getting around to saying what was liked. Yeah yeah, I'm being a pain in the ass. But I've been through the WIP forums before, and know what its like to get little or no comments each time you post a WIP. And if I'm understanding what's being put forth correctly, all this is to make it easier for people to put into words what they might otherwise struggle with, or forget about, right? Well, I personally think checklists like the instructor evaluation sheets you get in college (i.e. choices from good -> bad) would be a better setup for something like this, as it would help people get all of their comments together, and not just half of them

Nice form, but it strikes me as far too focused on the negative side of things. If there was that much time and effort put into creating something for people to point out what's wrong with the mix in that form, perhaps some time should also be taken to make it so they can point out what's right with the mix in a similar fashion. You provide a method for people to easily point a mixer away from the bad directions they're going with sounds, notation and production, and that's cool and quite helpful. Criticism on a remix is a good thing, as it can help avoid the various pitfalls that beginners (and 'experts') fall into. But like any art, if you don't bring up what is working along with what isn't, and focus solely on what's wrong, then there's a good chance that the parts that showed promise are going to get fucked up and lost. You've got the areas to help a listener hear and respond to what needs work. How about giving the listener similar help in hearing and responding to what's going well?

Fixed

Right there is some good old fashioned nightmare fuel. Turn Mario into that for the next game, and kids will be waking up in the middle of the night screaming about how Mario and his face are coming after them.

Manos: Hands of Fate.

EGM- "A fantastic addition that's sure to please fans!" IGN- "A little tricky at first, but it later proves to be a valuable tool." Gamespot- "So helpful, it makes us wonder, 'Why wasn't this thought up sooner?', and, 'Who can we fire over this?'" GamePro- "How teh fuk du I logz in?"

Square-Enix... whoring out their Final Fantasy follow ups one shattered childhood at a time.

A few more... -=PC Engine CD=- Akumajō Dracula X Chi no Rondo (Action Platformer) * Rayxanber II (Shmup) * Rayxanber III (Shmup) * Spriggan (Shmup) * Spriggen Mark II (Shmup) * Super Darius (Shmup) * Super Darius II (Shmup) * *= Japanese version -=Playstation=- Gradius Gaiden (Shmup) * Namco Museum Encore (Compilation) * Raiden DX (Shmup) * X2 (Shmup) * *= Japanese version

-=Sega Master System=- Dragon Crystal (Maze) * Ninja Gaiden (Action Platformer) * Power Strike II (Shmup) * Sagaia (Shmup) * Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Platformer) * Sonic Chaos (Platformer) * *= May not be a Japanese version available, but there are European versions that may show up in Japanese shops. -=MegaDrive=- Alien Soldier (Run 'N Gun) * Eliminate Down (Shmup) * Gley Lancer (Shmup) * Monster World IV (Action Platformer RPG) * Pulseman (Action Platformer) * Super Fantasy Zone (Shmup) * Thunder Force IV (Shmup) * Twin Hawk (Shmup) * Undead Line (Shmup) * Zero Wing (Shmup) (European version) *= Japanese version -=Saturn=- Assault Suit Leynos II (Action Platformer) * Battle Garegga (Shmup) * Blast Wind (Shmup) * Darius II (Shmup) * DonPachi (Shmup) * DoDonPachi (Shmup) * Dungeons and Dragons Collection (Hack 'N Slash Compilation) * + Galaxy Force II (3D Shmup) * Gradius Deluxe Pack (Shmup Compilation) * Hyper Duel (Shmup) * Kyukyoku Tiger II Plus (Shmup) * Layer Section II * (Shmup) Marvel Superheroes vs Street Fighter (Fighting) * + Metal Black (Shmup) * Night Striker S (3D Shmup) * Radiant Silvergun (Shmup) * Salamander Deluxe Pack (Shmup Compilation) * Samurai Shodown Best Collection (Fighting Compilation) * + Sokyugurentai (Shmup) * Stellar Assault SS (3D Shmup) * Strikers 1945 (Shmup) * Thunder Force V (Shmup) * Thunder Force Gold Pack 1 (Shmup Compilation) * Thunder Force Gold Pack 2 (Shmup Compilation) * Vampire Savior (Fighting) * + X-Men vs Street Fighter (Fighting) * + *= Japanese version += Requires 4MB cart -=Dreamcast=- Border Down (Shmup) * Ikaruga (Shmup) * Under Defeat (Shmup) * Zero Gunner II (Shmup) * *= Japanese version

Street Fighter II Turbo. Although, if I recall, the game's actually Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting, so maybe it's Super Street Fighter II: Turbo?

Except that I've yet to see how a close up image of a gun trigger links to the word "Crisis"

There are a few remixers on OCR and VGMix who have game soundtracks or game audio on their resumé. Virt is one (VGMix owner), and OCR judge Wingless is another. If you talk to Wingless, be ready to hear how much he hates you because now you're on the other side of the video game equation in relation to him All kidding aside, try talking to them. They may offer up some advice for you too, or share a story or two about how they got involved in that line of work.

You've seen "Goatse: The Image". Now come and see... Goatse: The Musical Find out about him as he reveals himself to you... "It's gaping and It's red. It'll get into your head. Make you my friend I'll try. Just gaze into my brown eye. As you can plainly see, someone did marry me. But little does she know I have a big asshoooooooooole! This is my own fun, stretching apart both my buns. Oh no now here she comes! 'What're you doing?' Nothing huuuuuuuuuuuun." Learn of his fears and weaknesses... "I may seem rather crude. I come off rather rude. To trash they say I aaaam akiiiiiiin. Here I am. So open. I'm worried, but I'm hopin', that you can help fiiiiiiill me iiiiiiin. Why do people find me crass, somewhat foul and vulgar too? Won't you please give me a chance to prove myself to you? Can't you look past all I'll done... just turn an eye that's blind? Can't you feel some pity, and not leave me behiiiiiiiind?" And feel the pain of his ass as the stress builds on it... "Oh my God! Am I fucked? Inside me your hands are tucked! What the hell? Fucking stop! I feel like I'm going to pop! I just really can not see, why you're doing this to me. I think that I will soon rip, because of your vice-like grip. I'm begging and I'm pleading, PLEASE STOP BEFORE I'M BLEEDING!" The life... the times... the sphincter. Goatse: The Musical Tickets go on sale June 29th.

I guess. Or they just don't know how to wait for something and be patient. How hard is it to put the money aside, and get it when it's available? $200+ is quite a chunk of change to blow because you "GOTTA HAVZ IT NOW!", especially since that cash could get you several games. Shit, I waited well over a year to get to play Return to Castle Wolfenstein on the PC I had at the time, and 13 years to finally play Curse for the MegaDrive. It's really not that tough to do.

$350 -> $500+ for a $250 system? A lot of very impatient people with too much money it seems.

Oh sure, now I find hints after I've already bruised my brain getting those three 44 now, with 1, 43 and 47 added. #35 is driving me nuts, as I'm almost certain that I own the game (or at least played it more than a few times), and the music has a style and sound that I usually link to a given system and company. But so far, nothing's clicked. So it's pretty much that one, and #2 (namely because I was sure it was from a certain series, but I've typed in all the games from that series on that system, and none were right).