The Coop

Actually, the issue may not have been Daemon Tools. I thought that program had screwed up my PC once too, only to find out after doing a destructive restore (pre-made PC here), that my PC had the same problem again six months later... without having Daemon Tools installed. agp440.sys Right there, is the driver that was giving me a serious issue. It's a driver (video?) that from time to time, simply craps out during the boot up sequence, and results in a similar issue when trying to boot up your PC. Suzu, try starting in Safe Mode, and see if your PC hangs on the agp440.sys driver as it's booting up. If it does, try this... http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324764 It may help.

Well... I won't be sleeping now.

Not sure if this is going to be read after Syl's post, but... But how is that the fault of anyone in UnMod? If you look around the Web, the notion of having a bigger post count to fit in is not an UnMod or OCR trait. It's everywhere. Every site forum at some point has had someone make a sarcastic remark regarding a person's post count, and how it wasn't big enough to make that poster be taken seriously. It's been going on since before OCR was ever started, and it'll continue long after OCR vanishes. UnMod posters are not at fault for that mind set, because even if a newbie took that remark completely seriously, there were scores of posts elsewhere on OCR and in UnMod that stated the exact opposite. I don't see how the inability to take a joke, is something that could be used in what you described. Regarding the mob mentality you mentioned, I don't think you really understood what was going on when those fad threads were created... Fad threads had nothing to do with fitting in, nor did they come about from running out of thread ideas. When fad threads were made, they were made in an attempt to be funny. Some succeeded, some didn't. After a while, they were almost expected to show up, and both regulars and newbies alike made them over time. If you made one, you weren't part of the group, nor were you desperate to find a thread idea. All you were, was someone who made a fad thread in an attempt to get/give a quick laugh. In fact, more often than not, people were trying to keep posters from making fad threads. There were quite a few posts within the fad threads that stated they'd grown tiresome, and that people should stop making them. Some said this politely, some not so polite. But basically, to a decent number of people, they'd run their course quite some time ago. But in the end, they were a source of short lived amusement, and little more. This isn't intended as any kind of insult Pixie, but I honestly believe that you have a good number of misconceptions about what went on in UnMod, and why it went on.

Actually Pixie, from the things I watched, join dates and post counts weren't the source of all that much. Post count increases were more of a joke than anything else. People with large post counts were being called postwhores and told "You have no life", as opposed to being considered people to look up to, or "the elite". There's a reason the phrase "You're not your post count" has been floating around UnMod for a long, long time. And really, even join dates were used more in a sarcastic way than as a legit weapon. When someone from say 2004 would comment, "UnMod sucks compared to how it was when I joined", that's when someone from 2003, 2002 or earlier would comment along the lines of "How would you know? You joined after it was already shitty". Perhaps in the beginning, post counts and join dates were used against people with real intent. But by the time 2005 was over, anyone referencing post counts and join dates as a means to discount someone's comment was making a joke, and not being serious. Sure, some of the newbies took the comments seriously and got offended or upset, but that was more a result of not being able to detect the sarcasm, than actual intended maliciousness. Yes, there were exceptions, but they were just that... exceptions. Not the rule. There were plenty of newbies who got respect for how they posted and did things, and there are plenty of regulars who still catch shit to this day, despite how long they've been here or how much they've posted. How a given newbie (or poster in general) acted was the main source of potential flaming and put downs over the years. Not post counts, and not join dates. Of course, that's just my opinion based on my own experiences.

But see, "HI" wasn't a "+1" thread... it was a random thread (to me at least). While SSAtPWPBY was undoubtedly a "+1" thread with its nearly constant, quick and similar posts, the "HI" thread had conversations of all types going on within it (something the subtitle of the thread regularly reflected). I'm not fond of the whole "+1" idea either, but when it's contained within a designated thread, I don't see the harm in them. If people show some self restraint, their inclusion in Off Topic shouldn't be an issue. Think about it... when UnMod wasn't moderated, there were really only about three types of threads like this. One was SSAtPWPBY, another was a version of "What are you listening to?", and the last was AIMMS (yes, that thread was a "+1" thread at heart, but one with a much better and uplifting purpose than the typical "+1" thread). Occasionally, you'd get a fourth one, and that one generally changed each time topically and died off after a short while. There weren't entire forum page-filling floods of them. Now we're talking about a new moderated forum. It's not going to explode into a "+1"-fest unless some folks decide to try and cause problems. And really, that will only get them warned/banned for their troubles, and their thread, deleted. In the end, whether "+1" threads stay or go doesn't affect me. As I said, I didn't take part in many of them beyond the AIMMS thread. But I'd like to see such threads at least be given a shot in Off Topic. If it doesn't work out, or things get out of hand, then they'll be gotten rid of obviously. But I'd rather see them tried out and fail, than not given a shot at all. As for the image threads, I fail to see how a thread with images of elfgirls and the like is going to drive people away with their mere presence. I just can't imagine posters doing anything more than rolling their eyes and going to the next thread. Plus, if we start using some kind of warning for such threads, or even combine ones that are similar (like what happened with the Catgirl/Angelgirl/Devilgirl threads), they won't be everywhere, and they'd be clearly labeled. If such a thing drives people away, then in truth, where does the problem reside... with the person who's disgusted just by the idea of such threads being there, or with the site that has those threads marked, labeled, and kept in check so people know what to expect? They may not be to everyone's liking, but there's a lot that's not to everyone's liking. Sometimes you just have to take the good with bad, and roll with it. If the image threads don't get out of control and over done (elfgirl, elfguy, elfdickgirl, elfthis, elfthat, etc.), I'm just not seeing a reason to get rid of them. I'm not trying to bash you for your opinion, Eulogic. It differs from my own, and I'm fine with that. I can respect it. But I honestly don't see how the presence of a few image threads like "A catgirl a day", "Elf Chicks", "Original Artwork" and such is going to keep folks from posting and listening to the remixes.

Well, since Bahamut suggested posting ideas here, I think I'll do just that... -No Porn? WTF?!- This topic doesn't seem to have been given a clear yay or nay thus far. Early posts suggested it was completely off limits, while later ones made it seem like it had yet to be decided upon. So for now, I'm going to treat this as a “worst case scenario”, and reply as if porn was not going to be allowed in Off Topic at all. The thing here, is just what is going to be defined as "porn"? I personally don't see simple nudity (be it real or drawn) as porn. Whether it's a catgirl in her bra and panties while sitting in a sexual pose with hardened nipples, an elfgirl standing there topless in the wind, or a real woman in full frontal nudity, those things just don't come off as porn to me. What does, is anything with actual penetration... two people having sex, a woman using a dildo, stuff like that. So in my opinion, I don't see an issue with people posting nude women or men if they choose to, especially since this was generally done in designated picture threads. This would make threads like “Holy Hot Asian Girls Batman!”, “A catgirl a day...”, “Elf girls: Still Reducing Your Chances of Scoring”, and their ilk very doable in Off Topic, which would likely make some people rather happy. Now, we get to images with someone cumming... the "money shot" stuff. While there's no penetration involved, it falls into a strange area. The same can be said regarding images of a nude guy about to climb on top of (or enter in general) a nude woman, or a woman about to jam a nine inch dildo into herself. It's not penetration, but it's as close as you can get to the moment of (be it before or after). So really, I'm not sure how to feel about it. I've personally never been a fan of the "splooge" or "here I come!" images, so I wouldn't miss them if they were kept out. But, again, since there's no real penetration happening, I know others may not see these types of images as porn. So I'll leave that area alone. While I was typing this, I was thinking about something. What if there was a requirement for image threads to have a "May Contain Nudity" disclaimer in their title, or a symbol of some kind that means just that? Perhaps even a simple “Not Work Safe”? Then when threads are created that have the distinct possibility of having nudity in them, people would know in advance before going into those threads, and wouldn't have a reason to complain. You'd know what's there, and you'd know what may be within the thread. It would be plenty of warning for everyone. This way, if someone goes into a thread with that disclaimer, and is upset by what they saw, they'd have no grounds to make a complaint, because they were warned. As far as the random nude image goes, I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask people to keep the nude images in the respective threads. If you're running through the "... and it made me smile" thread, and you suddenly slam head long into a nude woman/guy photo or drawing, I can understand why someone would see that as being inappropriate for the thread. If a thread that's not listed as possibly have nudity in it, suddenly gets images of nude people or characters, then those viewing the site from someplace other than the privacy of their home would have a case in regards to making a complaint. I know the argument about not browsing websites while you're at work exists, and in truth, it's a very valid argument to be made. But not everyone has a computer at home, or in their room. Some go to school computer labs and post, or the library, or perhaps even their parent's bedroom. And of course, there are the artist threads. Over the years, people have posted images of nude characters they've drawn. Considering “Original Artwork” threads have regularly cropped up, I don't feel it would be right to tell people not to post their work there. Again, some kind of disclaimer could be used, and this way, the threads would still give people the creative freedom they've had up to this point, while letting others know that there might be nudity contained within. So really, I don't see any problem with having nudity in Off Topic. I understand the need to make OCR more “work safe” for some forum browsers, but I don't think it should be taken to extremes. As long as it's kept in threads that give the forum users a warning about what to expect in said threads, there really shouldn't be an issue beyond the occasional poster who feels the need to randomly drop a pair a breasts or a guy's penis into an unsuspecting thread. Nudity isn't illegal (usually, with loli and bestiality being exceptions), so I see no reason for it to be outlawed. -What nonsense- Oh, we all remember these threads. “Exactly how many lords of the boards are there?”, “The Official Spork thread”, the “Hi” thread, the brainfuck thread... they're threads that are random, and seem to have either no real topic, or some damn odd ones. Or, perhaps they became so convoluted, that the original topic got lost along the way. Some people called them slow AIM chatrooms, others called them “wastes of server space”,. but I also know there were plenty of people who took part in them. I don't don't see the harm in letting these kinds of threads be made. If they're interesting, or interesting conversations begin in them, they take off and lead to all sorts of fun things. If they're boring, they die off quickly and vanish from sight. Unless there's a flame war going on, or the thread's getting bombed with goatse or something, these things are harmless bits of chatter in my opinion. And in truth, there's no real reason to keep them out of Off Topic. Then there are the many types of contest threads. Speedruns, UPC (UnMod Pissing Contest) score runs, caption contests... these were always fun. Not allowing these in Off Topic would make no sense at all. Of course, then there are the mock threads (a thread with the same name as another one, but is completely random or nonsensical inside... like “I saw God today”, and then the first post is an image of a taco and nothing else). To be honest, I'm not sure how to feel about these. In a way, they're fad threads mixed with gibberish, but in another way, they're still basically harmless. I didn't post in these very much, and they rarely got to be multi-page threads before they died off. So in truth, whether they stay or go, it doesn't bother me either way. Then we come to the fad threads. Having been guilty of making two or three of these, it may seem a bit hypocritical for me to say this, but... I think they shouldn't be a part of Off Topic. Sure, some of them were funny, and a few even became their own legitimate topics. But generally, they only get a few posts and just clutter up the front page. Yes, they can be good for a laugh if someone tries hard enough, but it more often than not ends up a mass of dead threads within a few hours, and then everyone has to go back and dig up the more popular and useful threads again. So in the end, I just don't see them doing much for Off Topic. Finally, what some called the "+1" threads. "Say something about the person above you", "What are you listening to now?", "What are you eating now?"... the types of threads that have always been accused of simply being an excuse to up your post count. As strange as it may seem to say it, these are harmless. They grow quickly, yes. But they consist of simple answers and quick replies. The only time one of these became a problem, usually centered around the ones that ask you comment on a previous poster. Once in while, bickering would break out, but it usually got buried under subsequent posts before it could ever get anywhere really hostile. And besides... if there's still the 3000 reply limit, then you know these kinds of threads be deleted soon enough, and respawned with a "v2". They won't be able to grow out of control, because there'd be a set limit to how big they could get. So really, beyond irking the folks who demand nothing but substance in each thread, and as long as they don't spawn too many fad threads of themselves (What are you eating?, What are you drinking? What are you watching? What are you reading? Etc.), what's the harm? These kinds of "+1" threads are usually self contained, so I don't see an issue with them being allowed. But, I think they should have an eye kept on them so that we don't end up with fifty of them at once. Sorry for the length, but I was trying to give my thoughts on a good number of things.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, but I do have to disagree with the advice you were given. Some of what was said in other threads regarding the abrupt deletion, centered around not being able to save the things that people wanted to... to archive the various threads, images, etc. Another part, was indeed the suddenness. One second it was there, the next, it was gone. For some, that came off as a considerable lack of respect towards the folks posting in UnMod. These things, coupled with the "retrobans" that were going on, and the on-going process of people trying to find out why they were banned (and possibly get unbanned) just fueled the reaction. It was like dumping lighter fluid on the fire that was still burning from the bans over the previous few weeks. I can honesty say, I don't believe there would have been nearly the reaction there was, if people had just been given warning. Everyone knew it was going to be changed, so its eventual disappearance wasn't a hidden truth. I feel some of the folks there underestimated us. Of course, I guess it's a dead issue now. As for Off Topic, I share your hopes of making it a good place. While there's still a lot of blanks left in terms of what can and can't take place there (image threads like "Holy Hot Asian Girls Batman!" and "Boobies", nudity in general, nonsensical threads like "What are you eating now?", etc.), I'm hoping a lot of what made UnMod fun to read and take part in will still be retained. I know thread breaks, Image Bombs, ROM links, loli, torrents of music that's for sale, and their ilk aren't allowed. But right now, I believe there are a lot of people waiting to see what will be allowed. I know I'll still be here, but others are sitting on the fence waiting for that info.

This dark skin's getting snazzier each time it's updated. Nice work thus far, Rama.

Can't imagine why it would be taken seriously, considering it makes it appear everyone involved was just having a big laugh over what would undoubtedly upset and anger a lot of people on OCR... especially considering who posted them. I have to admit to feeling a good amount of disappointment in, and lessened respect for, those cheery looking folks when I saw it.

Are those people OCR staff members?

Um, "page not found".

Global Warming. Anyway, don't know your reasons for leaving the staff DS, but thanks for putting in the time for OCR. Hopefully you'll still post here with some semblance of regularity. But if not, just remember this... Even if people forget your music, on OCR, you'll be forever linked to...

Well, that's why I used the word "some" when talking about the judges and mods in my post earlier, zyko. Not all the mods or judges were speaking out against UnMod and those posting in it, just like not all the posters in UnMod spoke out against the judges and mods. Just because you (or other judges and mods) didn't post in UnMod much, doesn't mean you were doing the trash talking. That wasn't what I meant with my post earlier, so I apologize if you took it that way. I was only saying that each side had its own people who were quite verbal about their dislike of each other. And with people on both sides making their feelings known, it doesn't take much for a build up of animosity to begin. It didn't happen right away, but what I saw over time was that it eventually got to a point where it didn't matter that Gray, Smoke, Myf, Ori, Vig, AP and others were taking part in UnMod, and that various "UnModders" were doing their part to help the site and the people on it. Somehow, it transformed into an "us vs. them" situation... an "UnMod and its posters are worthless" vs "The judges and mods are all dicks" generalization-fest. Most of what you read about was how much one side disliked the other, despite common sense saying that it wasn't really like that. Unfortunately though, once this "us vs them" mentality got a foothold, nothing ever seemed to disprove it or defuse the situation. I could very well be wrong with this, but that's what I saw slowly happen over the years. We both know it wasn't really like that, zyko... that the "us vs them" deal wasn't the truth. Hell, anyone who took a step back from it all could see that. But when generalizations keep being stated over and over, sometimes they get seen as facts by some, and that's how this whole thing became a self-sustaining, on-going sore spot for the site... a sore spot that was effectively ripped open a couple days ago. Anyway, I hope that makes my point clear.

Only time will tell, Orichalcon. If it does, it won't be immediate. Those who left will be watching to see how Off Topic is run, and just where the boundaries are. A lot of trash was talked by both sides, and it continues to be as we've seen. So it'll like take while for the dust to settle, and for people to chill out. I too have hopes of Off Topic allowing everyone to do the image threads, the contests, the edit threads, and all the things that generated interest and many a good time in UnMod. But since so little has really been mentioned, and what was said sounded extremely restrictive in how it was worded, it's a "wait and see" game for now. I won't miss the thread breaks, the image/text bombs, the massive fad thread outbreaks (though a few were funny), and their ilk, but I'm hoping I won't wind up missing all the things that made UnMod fun to take part in. Edit: Hellcom- I made that badge after a few folks asked for one about UnMod's deletion. If you like it, feel free to use it.

And others just waited for something of interest to appear on the front page of Gen Dis that they wanted to post in. Not everyone left The problem is that a good number of the staff members didn't see the point in UnMod, because they rarely took part in it. For all the projects and "fads" that took place in there, I believe I rarely ever saw a mod's name pop up, or a judge's or an admin's. While some on this site were having fun, others just turned up their noses to it. Few on the staff seemed to want to take part in it, and few seemed to want to see what kept bringing people back to UnMod. So, we had various members of the staff put those taking part in it down, and consider the whole thing not worth checking out. Not many on the staff publicly stood up for UnMod and what went on in it, so a sense of disdain from the staff towards the so-called "UnModders" grew, and that sense was returned. Personally, I don't think half the drama between UnMod and the staff would have existed if they'd just taken part in the place, instead of opting to mock it. I think the real shame here, is that a lot of fun things took place in UnMod... things that couldn't have been done in Gen Dis. Anyone and everyone could take part in them if they chose to, and since you didn't have to worry about keeping it family friendly, that gave people a lot more freedom to be creative. That's something that a lot of people are going to miss. It was a place to do things that couldn't be done elsewhere on the site, and not have to tone it down. It's true that some abused that concept, but others used it in good ways. I guess now we're learning more about who only saw UnMod for the former part, and not the latter one. For someone like myself, its disheartening to see a part of this site I've enjoyed for well over four years get brought to end as it did, and to see people on both sides act as they have towards one another.

Not a bad game really. In some ways, it's a step above LoI by adding the innocent devils and taking moving away from the typical Castlevania storyline by adding interesting characters that are a lot more fleshed out. But in other ways, it's just as bad as LoI, with it's painfully simplistic 3D level design and less than impressive texture quality on the surroundings. They can't blame the hardware for this, because we've seen the PS2 and XBox do great things. I see it to be more of a "lack of balls" problem on the part of Iga who's been over-seeing the games. We all know Castlevania can be a great series in 3D. They just need to find someone who's willing to take more chances game design-wise. I enjoyed playing through it though. The boss fights were tough (yes, I'm still stuck on the final boss' second form), and the various aspects of gameplay kept it from getting too stale. It was definitely a step in the right direction over LoI, but I think Castlevania's going to need bigger steps to be taken for it to really shine in 3D the way it's shined in 2D.

I failed to say "Welcome back" before. So... "Welcome back Decrescendo."

Boy did you pick a hell of a time to return *lol*

Wait... LT tells me they're too plain on a black background, but he was cool with a submission from six months ago with them on a black background (which I missed incidentally)? Was he replaced with a robot? LT: The white-colored ones were too plain on a black background. Adding color to the enemies got rid of that.

I made a black background several pages back, and LT didn't like it. He said they were "too plain", and suggested trying to do something that gave them a "cooler background". So, that's what I'm trying to do. Of course, since the game's from 1978, I'm not sure what the issue is with the sprites looking as they do. But the game's a classic, and it deserves to be included, so I'm trying my best.

You and me both. Though I've retried the second form of the final boss several times, I just can't beat the bastard.

Very nice. You guys did a fine job putting this all together, and kudos to the team for the end result. I gotta ask though... I noticed a number of enemies from the original SoR. How come the jump/flip girls who looked a lot like Blaze in SoR1 weren't used? I'm not complaining mind you. Just curious.

New idea attempt for the Space Invaders avatars... LT: Cool, but no need for a fancy background. Adding color to the sprite was more than enough.

Picky picky picky LT: The second one. Excellent. Thanks for your patience on reworking it.

Aaaaaaaaand... LT: Lil' darker, plz!