Game Companies

[Nohbody]

I frequently hear that getting involved with mod projects is also a great way to get some valuable experience and improve your employability. Even Portal started out as a small mod project. And those guys all work at Valve now.

What skills does one need to become involved with these projects? Im pretty sure that I dont have them yet.

[zircon]

Seph, that's not true, as far as I know. Portal started out as a senior project at Digipen ("Narbacular Drop") and when it was presented at the end of the year, someone from Valve was there to see it. That's not quite the same thing as a bunch of people getting together on the net and working on a mod.

[sephfire]

Seph, that's not true, as far as I know. Portal started out as a senior project at Digipen ("Narbacular Drop") and when it was presented at the end of the year, someone from Valve was there to see it. That's not quite the same thing as a bunch of people getting together on the net and working on a mod.

Well darn, I think you're right. Perhaps Counter-Strike would have been the better example.

Regardless, I've heard numerous game people say that mod involvement is a good idea. It's worth considering, if you have the time and skills to contribute.

[The Author]

Meh, I doubt I could get in the industry with my training as a writer, other than maybe writing instruction manuals...

[Beatdrop]

Uh, I guess I have ties to and contacts in Konami. "Until Forever" licensed for use in DDR Supernova 2 (PS2) and DDR Universe 2 (360). "Burn Out" licensed for use in as-yet-to-be-announced DDR title(s).

[The wingless]

In terms of skills, it's unlikely any game company will want someone who's both an animator and a programmer.

Yes... I guess all those UI artists I hear about in the game industry are just old-wives tales meant to frighten children away from Flash.

To Radical Dreamer: You'd be surprised. There's always a need for excellent writers in the industry, since it's come to a point now where, in order to stay competitive, you need a narrative beyond "Space marines get pissed". The goal, however, is to write gamey, and not like any other medium. Writing for games is as genre-specific as writing for stage or radio.

To Seph: Mod making is a very good way to break in, but there's a huge catch: your mod has be conceptually brilliant to the point where Industry paragons turn their heads (Portal's precursor, Team Fortress, Line Rider, Tower Defense), or it has to have quality that is on-par with the Industry (Red Orchestra).

Here's the skinny, boys and girls.

The Industry, much like the movies, has a dizzying array of disciplines at work at any given time. Some of these jobs rather self-explanatory about how to break into the industry. Want to program? Learn programming. Want to animate? Start rigging. Want to do concept art? Learn how to paint. Etc. etc.

But it seems most people are only concerned with one thing: being the guy at the tippy-top who makes the command decisions. And here's where things break down, because there is *no* Industry standard way to wear the mantle of Game Designer... hell, if you brought 10 designers in and asked them how they got to where they are, you'd get 10 radically different stories.

Which, believe it or not, is your godsend.

Your first major obstacle is to get your foot in the door. After that, it's purely a matter of making sure the people at the top A.) know you're interested B.) know you're talented C.) know you won't make a shit game and D.) know you. D is probably the most important. This Industry is roughly akin to the Mafia or Hollywood. Favors for favors. You screw up, you'll never work in this town again, and you will wear cement shoes, cat-fish?

But, first things first, get inside the building with a title other than Game Designer, and you'll have a much better shot of ascending the throne like King Conan of old

...Ah... but that is another story!

[Kanthos]

@Glitch: I'm answering your PM here since other interested people may be reading this thread.

In terms of languages, learn C++. Learn it in-depth. Try to figure out not just how to make the program work but *why* it works. Find a project for yourself, probably remaking some classic game like Pac-man or Tetris, and figure out how you'd organize the code and the logical parts of the software. How does it all fit together? Teach yourself to plan up-front: a programmer who starts writing code without the end goal in mind is a liability, not an asset.

For software, Microsoft has a free edition of Visual C++ you can download, and there are a few others out there as well. For Mac, I don't know what's available, but it's generally not hard to find tools and tutorials online.

Yes... I guess all those UI artists I hear about in the game industry are just old-wives tales meant to frighten children away from Flash.

Depends on your toolchain and process, I guess. At EA, we had two or three artists who did strictly 2D UI design for my project. They had a tool that let them lay out the assets visually and export to a format the game could understand, but it was the UI programmers, none of whom did any art for the game, who wrote the code that could use the assets and layouts produced by that tool and wrote the code to give it functionality.

When I made my comment, I was thinking mainly of 3D animation. Certainly, there are some positions at some companies that use 2D graphics skills in conjunction with programming, but it's probably fair to say that in most larger companies, many people who program or create art assets do not do both, and it's probably fair to say that unless you're put in the time to master both (a huge time commitment unless you're a programming genius with great art skills), you'll be less valuable than someone who has mastered one or the other.

[Theory of N]

Well, seeing as I just graduated high school, I'm obviously not part of the industry, but I'm hoping after I graduate college I can make music for games. I don't really think I need to worry about it that much right now, seeing as I have 4-5 years of college to go through first, but to those of you who do that, what would be the best way to go about getting that sort of job?

[zircon]

Talk about opening a can of worms with that question. Seriously? My advice is don't even try. It's so unbelievably competitive and high-stress and the music end of the industry is getting increasingly smothered right now. If you want to compose music professionally that's one thing but I would say don't get your hopes up on VGM and focus on just refining your compositional and production skills as much as possible first.

[Nohbody]

Wingless, I wont quote you because holy crap but thank you for the advice. The truth is I really didnt know anything about the gaming industry other than I want to be In it. Id heard it was competitive, sort of, but now I know the truth.

So, my plan is to teach myself Japanese until I become fluent, get a job at Nintendo of Japan as a janitor, and hope to God that someone realizes my brilliance. Got it.

EDIT: Zircon, I like your music, but your seriously killing my buzz right now.

[Kanthos]

I'm sure zircon wasn't trying to kill anyone's buzz. It's just reality that the music industry, however you want to get into it, is very tough to make a living on unless you do teacher's college and teach music, give private lessons, or have some other day job and gig at night. Particularly with lower-budget games finding it cheaper to use licensed tracks than hire a composer, there's not a huge market for game composers.

[Knives]

So, my plan is to teach myself Japanese until I become fluent, get a job at Nintendo of Japan as a janitor, and hope to God that someone realizes my brilliance. Got it.

Haha, that's also my plan... okay, maybe not exactly. I'd like to become a video game localization specialist, and translate japanese video games to make them more acceptance to western audiences. Ideally I'd like to work for Capcom, but Nintendo and Atlus are good runner ups.

Anyone here ever worked with or know any video game localizers?

[The Pezman]

Here's a follow-up question.

Do those of you in the industry have dreams of being a bigwig designer one day? Why or why not? I, personally, do not know whether the idea of giving up ownership to your creative IP is enough of a reason for me to stay out of the entertainment industry as a whole. Edward Albee told me it was enough for him. But then again, Albee is an arrogant prick. So I don't know. For now, I'm going to see where this game design project this summer takes me.

I'd like to become a video game localization specialist, and translate japanese video games to make them more acceptance to western audiences. Ideally I'd like to work for Capcom, but Nintendo and Atlus are good runner ups.

If Working Designs ever has a successor, spiritual or otherwise, work for them. That company had the most fantastic reputation when it came to localization and I love all their RPGs for it.

[zircon]

I'm sure zircon wasn't trying to kill anyone's buzz. It's just reality that the music industry, however you want to get into it, is very tough to make a living on unless you do teacher's college and teach music, give private lessons, or have some other day job and gig at night. Particularly with lower-budget games finding it cheaper to use licensed tracks than hire a composer, there's not a huge market for game composers.

Yeah, I wasn't really trying to hurt anyone's hopes here. But that's the reality of the industry and you need to know if you want to go into it. Programmer? Animator? Modeler? No problem. I cannot tell you how many jobs I have seen for these positions. Basically every other area of the game industry is far, far easier to break into. Music ALWAYS gets the shaft. It's ALWAYS the last priority, and musicians get paid the least (or close to it.) Look at the Gamedev "Help Wanted" forums. Countless posts looking for programmers and artists. Countless posts with musicians offering services. The supply outstrips demand by several orders of magnitude.

[Knives]

If Working Designs ever has a successor, spiritual or otherwise, work for them. That company had the most fantastic reputation when it came to localization and I love all their RPGs for it.

Maybe I will, to quote wikipedia: "On December 12, 2005, Victor Ireland, President of Working Designs, announced via the company's message board that it was closing its doors. He will start a new company called Gaijinworks."

w00t?

[Wintermute]

Speaking as an artist attempting to get into the games industry right now, it is definitely a difficult process. If you're trying to get your art recognized, the best thing to have is 1) a good showcase of your work, and 2) apply to everything entry-level that you can possibly think of. Also, being on people's goodside is very useful.

I will probably be applying at EA pretty soon.

...Wingless, have I ever told you how much I LOVE YOU?

[Nohbody]

@Glitch: I'm answering your PM here since other interested people may be reading this thread.

In terms of languages, learn C++. Learn it in-depth. Try to figure out not just how to make the program work but *why* it works. Find a project for yourself, probably remaking some classic game like Pac-man or Tetris, and figure out how you'd organize the code and the logical parts of the software. How does it all fit together? Teach yourself to plan up-front: a programmer who starts writing code without the end goal in mind is a liability, not an asset.

For software, Microsoft has a free edition of Visual C++ you can download, and there are a few others out there as well. For Mac, I don't know what's available, but it's generally not hard to find tools and tutorials online.

Way ahead of you. I bought this book, very relevant. Learning C++ through Game Programming, second edition by Micheal Dawson.

O btw Dawson says not to use Microsoft C++ 6.0 at the beginning of the book.

[The Pezman]

Maybe I will, to quote wikipedia: "On December 12, 2005, Victor Ireland, President of Working Designs, announced via the company's message board that it was closing its doors. He will start a new company called Gaijinworks."

w00t?

Yeah, but...

[Kanthos]

Way ahead of you. I bought this book, very relevant. Learning C++ through Game Programming, second edition by Micheal Dawson.

O btw Dawson says not to use Microsoft C++ 6.0 at the beginning of the book.

Good enough then. Just make sure you actually do the exercises, if there are any, or write similar stuff to what they're coming up with in the book if there are no exercises. It's extremely difficult to learn a language without hands-on experience, without the nights of banging your head against a problem to leave it and come back to it.

Good luck! There are a few of us here who are experienced programmers, so make a thread if you run into language problems and need some help or another opinion.

[Nohbody]

Good enough then. Just make sure you actually do the exercises, if there are any, or write similar stuff to what they're coming up with in the book if there are no exercises. It's extremely difficult to learn a language without hands-on experience, without the nights of banging your head against a problem to leave it and come back to it.

Good luck! There are a few of us here who are experienced programmers, so make a thread if you run into language problems and need some help or another opinion.

Ya id figured out to do my own excersises. I made a program that calculates the derivative of a function at a given point all by myself, and wow it works!!! I feel smrat!

[TheThoughtfulOne]

Hey, more than I expected to get out of this thread ;;

Been busy with data entry *shudders*

Hearin all you guys talk about your education is making me sad, and want to go back to school...

I don't know ANY level of programing or animation... Guess that's why I'm in customer relations, right?

How well do you think a Psychology and Therapy Degree would do my in the gameing industry?

[Guy In Rubber Suit]

I'm a QA tester for THQ out in Phoenix. I was originally on assignment through Acro, an outsourcing type of firm, and recently got hired for a permanent QA position. About damn time as I've been there for a year and four months. However it's thus far been my favorite job. There is also a QA Test Lead position open and I'm applying for that. A cool thing is that we are in the same building as Rainbow Studios, they're in the floor below us so we generally get their titles and interact with the developers far more than usual.

I went to school for 'Multimedia' which basically boils down to that I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time. I thought I wanted game design but then realized that it's not what I really wanted, it's harder to get into it and it's extremely specific which would decrease my chances for any other sort of work should that fall through. I started focusing more on animation, which in retrospect I wish I focused on that earlier and went to a more art centric school. I do have strong art skills that I'm trying to improve more and more. I know modelling, basic textures and basic rigs as well as animating in Max and Maya. I also do some character animations for a MMO, Infernal Worlds from Forever Interactive.

One thing that I would suggest to artists wanting to break in, having strong traditional skills would help tremendously. I've noticed on a lot of job postings that companies generally want a traditional art background. Granted if you have a demo reel that knocks their socks off and can do the work in a timely fashion then it won't be much of a concern. The good thing about the game industry is that it's growing which means more job opportunities, you just need the skills for them.

One day I hope to do is own my own company, preferably remain independent but whatever. Right now it's in the back of my mind and I'd like to gain more industry experience before I make that plunge. I know it would more than likely end in failure, it'd still be a fun endeavor to do.

[Nohbody]

I'm a QA tester for THQ out in Phoenix. I was originally on assignment through Acro, an outsourcing type of firm, and recently got hired for a permanent QA position. About damn time as I've been there for a year and four months. However it's thus far been my favorite job. There is also a QA Test Lead position open and I'm applying for that. A cool thing is that we are in the same building as Rainbow Studios, they're in the floor below us so we generally get their titles and interact with the developers far more than usual.

I went to school for 'Multimedia' which basically boils down to that I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time. I thought I wanted game design but then realized that it's not what I really wanted, it's harder to get into it and it's extremely specific which would decrease my chances for any other sort of work should that fall through. I started focusing more on animation, which in retrospect I wish I focused on that earlier and went to a more art centric school. I do have strong art skills that I'm trying to improve more and more. I know modelling, basic textures and basic rigs as well as animating in Max and Maya. I also do some character animations for a MMO, Infernal Worlds from Forever Interactive.

One thing that I would suggest to artists wanting to break in, having strong traditional skills would help tremendously. I've noticed on a lot of job postings that companies generally want a traditional art background. Granted if you have a demo reel that knocks their socks off and can do the work in a timely fashion then it won't be much of a concern. The good thing about the game industry is that it's growing which means more job opportunities, you just need the skills for them.

One day I hope to do is own my own company, preferably remain independent but whatever. Right now it's in the back of my mind and I'd like to gain more industry experience before I make that plunge. I know it would more than likely end in failure, it'd still be a fun endeavor to do.

What is QA testing? Sorry, too lazy to google.

[lazygecko]

Quality Assurance, ie beta testing.

[TheSnowStorm]

I need some connections, badly. I'm going to the University of Advancing next fall and I'm majoring in thier Game Design program (Interactive Media). However, from what I heard from somebody who work as an programmer, being a "game designer" is a bit bad if you don't have much skills.

I'm doing Music Composing at a local community college, so if any skills are needed in Game Design, I am perpare.