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Zelda: Link's Awakening 'Tal Tal Mountain Range'

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Well, i guess I'll concede your point, but not on the basis of how you interpreted the idea. (Ah yes, lazy is my friend too.)

It's not so much on judging each one separately, but based on taking favorable elements from all the versions posted that people critique on and creating the final version with them.

Now using this song's development as example, and referring back to previous posts of what I've heard, I'll show how I look at a song. Do take note that this is the first WIP I've monitored this closely since I've become an OCR listener/member. All because this song suits my taste in music.

Firstly, I believe the one I first listened to was your "Post #13" one after Rozo's 8-14 post, so I had no idea what the original or any revisions up to that point sounded like. IE, what spurred my request for the original to see the evolution of this song.

At first I didn't know that your links for all the posts all pointed to the same file, and that you would overwrite the old file with the new one at each update. So the link on the first page (and every post afterward) all pointed at the same file. This confused me as I listened to the song for the first time and read the forum. I was thinking "Where's the heavy bass boom that Zircon described?". Not quite what I was expecting, as I figured that out after about 3 or 4 tries. You get where I'm coming from now? I was expecting to get your original file and follow the changes as you progressed.

So to continue with the original thought. In my first post I mentioned the drum set used. I was thinking "Those drums are kinda weak." and now that I've heard the original, I would have probably said to stay with the drum set you used originally but to tweak it's equalizer settings so it doesn't distort or sound "muddy".

For the second example:

Got bored. Listened. Got bored. And then it suddenly got great.
The beginning really feels like it drags on a bit too long, though.
you probably interpreted this part of Rozovian and PF Kitsune's posts the same way I did, the intro was too long, and you fixed it, probably because I was more specific than they were about that. (But I will not claim credit for pushing that change)

Example 3 was Rozovian's suggestion on the vibrato at 3:33 (actually at 3:30), and also used at 2:08. That could have been better implemented, probably a faster vibrato would have sounded better.

Doing it this way help minimize something I call "Overfixing". I noted several instrumentations that were present in the original that are now absent, even though in my opinion, they could have stayed, or vice versa, (new stuff that's not in the original). If it ain't broke, don't fix it, unless you're the government, who's motto is "if it ain't broke, fix it until it is (broke)".

I'm no remixer, but messing around with Module type music, I've learned how to tweak songs to better fit my own tastes to an extent. So this could be considered the indirect approach, since I don't have almost all of the tools remixers use here. I'm sure if I did, I'd ask you for your sequencer file just to see what I could do with it. (I am NOT asking for it though, just to be clear on that.)

In retrospect, my way of thinking is quite detailed, And I'm sure if I felt like running around the WIP forums, I'd probably quickly garner a reputation of being wordy and detailed (and probably annoying), at least if I had enough info to get into the details...... I'm sure the judges would be similar in their way of critiquing, but I don't know that for sure, I need to lurk more for proof of that. I don't expect any further changes since you said that edit 2 is your final version, so that's that.

Ah, to close this, I'll add what I was listening to this through. I was using the Philips SHE9500 Ultra Sound in ear headphones, which are the best headphones I've ever had. The bass response is excellent, which is why I no longer use my equalizer for music. I highly recommend them, just..... don't blow out your ears on high volume stuff, that's dangerous. j/k

Would be interesting to get a discussion started on this (and perhaps other wip forum-related things), but perhaps that should be its own thread.

I whole heartedly agree, where can I find such a thread? I need to vent. : )


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This thread is the home of one good track and two good ideas. I let Liontamer know about the need for a discussion thread for the wip board, and once there is such a thing, we'll move the rest of this discussion there. There's evidently use for it.

Grr, the biggest problem with the wip boards is the lack of feedback. If you hang around for long enough, you'll see a number of posts with one or two feedback posts, if even that. If you want to run around like me, posting on stuff, that's good. Most people here need _any_ feedback far more than detailed feedback. Some people, like Willrock, are close enough to the standards to benefit from a multiple-version evaluation, but most people that post here aren't on that level. Some want opinions, some need technical expertise...

I think the idea of posting multiple versions isn't bad, but I've only gotten annoyed at people actually doing that. The problem is that there's then three files to listen to, the source and both versions of the remix. It clutters the post, it clutters the feedback, and it can dissuade listeners. Too much trouble.

Overfixing isn't as great an inconvenience as relistening to each version and copy-pasting the good bits of one version together with the good bits of another, especially if you can't copy-pasta instrument and effect settings. Gradual tweaks is the way to go for most of the development of the track, but I know I've been rendering multiple candidates for the final version of one of my recent remixes, trying to figure out what to tweak and what sounds best. Let's agree, tho, that it can be useful to provide more than one version, especially in the late stages.

Grr, make use of your detailed thinking (and listening), a lot of wips need feedback. Any feedback is usually better than no feedback, and your feedback looks good to me. Some people need details, so don't be afraid to provide it.

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Grr, make use of your detailed thinking (and listening)
You sound angry even though i know you're referring to Grr :D

I find it very interesting how at 1:40 it almost sounds as if the song is going to break out in Tetris/Russian folklore groove. (hey...that's an idea!...for a different remix)

Those hi-hats somewhere in the mix feel weak (at least I think those are what they are, I don't know the names of stuff and things)... but overall I think the drum kit and stuff sound a lot better than, say, your Ice Cap mix's.

I'm thinking of Darangen's Deadly Promises - does he play his own drums and stuff, because they sound awesome. And what's with goat's drum kit, while I'm on the subject? Seriously enjoyable music there but the drums could sound meatier :( MOAR MEAT!

Right, back to the piece.

I really enjoyed the return of the piano at ~3:10. (And at ~3:40, is that synth or whatever the same that you used in your Reincarnated Soul? just stream of consciousnessing this).

And what I love most about this song is it doesn't feel repetitive at all, which is neat considering this song is 4:30 minutes.

That's 'bout all I can give you, I know nothing technical, as I think you know. Sounds cool, gave it a couple listens on the older versions a while ago and I think it is coming along well, but I'm not sure I'm listening for the right stuff. (Hey that's a song's name!)

Edit: wow Amarok really messed up the track length for me, lol. So.. fixed all the timings above

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Yes, he changed the name in his last update, the post called "Comparisons". He has no idea why he changed it, maybe this new title sounded better.

You missunderstand me mate, I meant that the song is still called mountain of dreams, the valley of the kings thing was a mistake, its a song by the band blue murder (A rock band that was formed by whitesnakes former guitarist john sykes, but thats not the point)

I think it was because I did some editing of the valley of the kings in Audacity (which I use to convert my files to MP3) and I Audacity has a function where the song name is different to the file name, I think it automatically changed my track name to the first song uploaded on that file if you follow me and I deleted the track with valley of the kings on it and uploaded mountain of dreams on the same file.

In other news, I sent my mix to Darksword, and he liked it, so I'll submit it. Wish me luck :)

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