Final Fantasy 7 'Jenova Project APPROVED'

[Nekofrog]

NEW VERSION: Holy shit. This is coming together to be one truly awesome track, in my view. I spent forever completely revamping the drums, tailoring them more to the actual track instead of just having them be JENOVA's drums from the game.

As for status:

Drums: 80% done, still need to finish them off, some parts are a little bare

Guitars: 90% done, still a few more bits to record here and there

Synth: We'll see, the drumless atmospheric part will need some more backing synth for more atmosphere.

Rest assured, the tune won't simply "end" like it does now, I'll eventually have an ending. I'm looking at this being submittable within a week or so.

http://www.yousendit.com/download/Y2ovV0o5UnE1Ujd2Wmc9PQ

I'll edit a TD link in when their servers are back up.

Old:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/bVlEa3NlZ2pFd2RFQlE9PQ

The song has taken a different direction that originally intended. It is no longer simply Jenova. It is now a hybrid of FF7's Jenova and Xenogears' Omen (a tune that I've already remixed and will be on the site soon...), and I think it has turned out quite well.

The old issues that I've addressed are still being worked on; most notably the drums. There will be changes from what you hear in this WIP, but in general the structure is set in stone. Critiques?

old:

metalfrog.org/music/FF7/ff7jenova-newriff.mp3

It's muddy and not a lot of production has gone into it. I don't do that stuff until everything is actually recorded and done.

Just looking for melodical feedback.

EDIT: NEW VERSION 10.07.08

New version: http://www.yousendit.com/download/bVlDWUhndWMwZ2xjR0E9PQ

I'll have a more permanent link up soon, but that one should work fine for now.

Summation:

The bit at 1:16 with the flangy cleans over the bass will likely be altered, it's just a placeholder for now.

Drums before 1:42 will be changed in the final version

Harmonizing leads at 1:53 will be changed, they're placeholders

2:20 is bare because I just finished laying down the rhythm tracks for it. Of course I will layer other stuff over it eventually.

Just wanted to update everyone as to the status of this piece, it isn't being ignored

[Rozovian]

Why not post a link, not just most of the url?

Drums gets old... eventually. Changing them up would be good.

Melody is.. well, we've heard it a few times already. I could imagine some nice mid-range solo towards the end of the wip, between rhythm guitar and the high-range stuff.

As source/interpretation goes, I've heard this source more than I'd like to, and this doesn't really bring that much new to it. The repetitiveness of it is hurting the attitude you've fit into it with. Still, it's enjoyable already, and it's obviously quite early. Good stuff, man.

[SplinterOfChaos]

Could use a little bit to distinguish itself from the Black Mages version.1:16 is the first moment that DIDN"T remind me of them. Everything from the drums to the riffs to the violin synths or whatever in the background.

I basically just want to see more mixing it up. Timing, melodically, and thematically.

Still, there's no way to sound BAD here. Not unless you decide to replace your guitars with kazoos...or should you?...

[Spakku]

I'm with SOC. Not the kazoo part, but that it doesn't sound particularly original until 1:16.

That's when it sounds best, regardless of originality, because you completely altered the tone of the song.

Also, it seemed to cut off so suddenly that before I looked at my Winamp player I checked my speaker cords.

[Nekofrog]

Well, it is a WIP. As in, not complete. Just a sample.

[Tensei]

*cough*rip-off*cough*

Okay, joking aside, his is some great stuff. Guitars etc. sound awesome as per usual and even the drums are alright this time round in terms of production.

Problem is, drums are incredibly boring and repetitive which really breaks the track for me. A drummer doesnt only use hi-hats and the occasional crash now and then (in fact, metal drummers tend to have like 20 different cymbals) and neither does he continually play patterns as simple as KICK SNARE KICK SNARE KICK SNARE. IMO this suffers from the same problems as your Chrono Trigger submission where you used the same hi-hat pattern for the ENTIRE track, and I can literally feel that the entire track suffers from the bland drums.

Please pay extra attention to the drum sequencing this time round; make sure it's not just a backing track to your guitars and bass but make it an inherent part of the arrangement.

[Nekofrog]

tensei should do all my drums

[SplinterOfChaos]

That wouldn't be a bad idea. Why don't you two collaborate on the whole song?

On thought: That...I don't really know what to call it, but that thing this song starts out with: the higher-range instrument rolling from high note to low; repeating...that's pretty much the trademark of this song. Us such, it's the death of creativity; required, but causes a feeling of typical-nes. Perhaps you could find a way to creatively alter the trademark in order to make your piece stand out. (I think as little as playing it backwards would do, more work might produce better results.)

PS: Sorry for my incredible ineptitude at expressing my idea.

[TheHands]

I want to hear the drummer go ape-shit. This is begging for more difficult drums than just a hat-kick-snare combo. Since it's metal, why not double bass? Tom rolls? Somethin'.

I like the guitar tone a lot so far, and I agree that it's begging for a solo after it breaks down.

This doesn't vary enough from the original melody and song structure right now to stand alone, for the time being it's just a heavy cover of a great song.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this though. Most WIPs don't make me care about the song, this one got feedback. That's gotta be a good sign.

[UchihaVilu]

Sounds like this s starting to get heavy and good...

Kick up those drums man, make 'em as Brutal as you can grasp.

Do whatever it takes to get this off the ground. Eat some frenchtoast and get in a suit of armor from Camelot, or something.

I'm also in agreement, that the lead guitar is begging for that solo piece.

Of course, though, when I hear anything with guitar nowadays, I think of FFVI - Battle on a New Continent, Secret of Mana - On the day the World changed, Castlevania 3 - Scale the Machine, and really anything from Metalocalypse's Dethklok.

The more Brutal you get with this, usually.. The better the output.

[Nekofrog]

New version: http://www.yousendit.com/download/bVlDWUhndWMwZ2xjR0E9PQ

I'll have a more permanent link up soon, but that one should work fine for now.

Summation:

The bit at 1:16 with the flangy cleans over the bass will likely be altered, it's just a placeholder for now.

Drums before 1:42 will be changed in the final version

Harmonizing leads at 1:53 will be changed, they're placeholders

2:20 is bare because I just finished laying down the rhythm tracks for it. Of course I will layer other stuff over it eventually.

Just wanted to update everyone as to the status of this piece, it isn't being ignored

[Rozovian]

Compression issues (esp at 1:10), but that's the only crit I've got.

Remixer, listeners, please take the time to answer the questions in this post, we're trying to improve the WIP board and we need your feedback.

[SplinterOfChaos]

It's a great improvement. Still, a little more interpretation all around, I think would do this justice.

[TheHands]

Since you've said what you're working on for it next, I won't jump too far into detail for what could be done.

This is great progress, the only thing I hear that it desperately needs is an ending, which I'm assuming is part of what you're planning in the bits from 2:20 on. I like the crunch you've got there, it's a solid start for an ending.

The drums are a little better, but still don't feel realistic enough early on. The samples are fine, but the sequence is unrealistic to the extent that metal takes pride in it's over the top drumming. I'm digging the changes made to the sequencing later on, they definitely help kill the monotony. Personally, I'd like to hear a little more cymbal there, but that's only because at the moment I'm listening only for the drums. In the overall it feels better than it did before.

Slap an ending in there and I don't see anything else structurally.

[Nekofrog]

NEW VERSION:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/bV...Z2pFd2RFQlE9PQ

The song has taken a different direction that originally intended. It is no longer simply Jenova. It is now a hybrid of FF7's Jenova and Xenogears' Omen (a tune that I've already remixed and will be on the site soon...), and I think it has turned out quite well.

The old issues that I've addressed are still being worked on; most notably the drums. There will be changes from what you hear in this WIP, but in general the structure is set in stone. Critiques?

[SplinterOfChaos]

At 0:25, maybe a second earlier, I hear some base drum. This could be a little sharper.

The sound scape is fairly the same through the first half of the song. I'd love to hear random instruments to break up the monotony.

At 1:15, you start over again. It was great the first time, but... it'd be nice if something changed. For some reason, I want to hear a duet start here...

This song is really heavy! A little heavier than I like, but that's personal preference. (Just a comment, not really a critique.)

I love 2:15. Very different from the rest of the song; it offers a nice resting period.

Around 3:20 is when the lead begins to drownd out what I'm guessing is the Omen reference. I'd like to be able to still hear it while I'm listening to the lead. Especially since this seems to be when your song tried to be softer.

This is really great work. Keep it up!

[Tensei]

Neko asked me to have a go at the drum sequencing, so here's what I've come up with, enjoy

http://www.tindeck.com/audio/my/npek/J-e-n-o-v-a

[SplinterOfChaos]

I thought I'd compare the two versions--with the new drums and the original--but I don't feel entirely comfortable. The new drums version feels cluttered and muffled (or is the word muddled?). To be able to give a non-bias opinion, I'd want to compare nearly identical versions.

What I feel confident in saying is that I feel it's a little obvious that the drums and guitars weren't done by the same person. I expect their relationship to be stronger by the time the song is finalized. But, this also might have been due to the sound problems.

All in all, the drums are much more complicated, which is mostly good, but some times it feels they try too hard. (Maybe 1:10 is an example?) On the other hand, I was a little worried that added drums wouldn't be a good idea at times like 1:15. You proved my wrong with good sincipation. After that point, the drums do a good job of helping build the energy back up.

[Tensei]

I've upped the volume a lot as well to get an idea of how the track sounds when maximized, which tends to bring the cymbals out a lot, I guess I mainly need to pull the cymbals back a lot for them not to clutter the track as much.

The mud is also partially caused by my inability to tweak the guitars, bass, synths etc. separately so I can't really tailor them around my drums.

I agree that some of the sections are 'too' varied (especially the blastbeat during the intro annoys me), but I'm still waiting for a final version (with longer intro etc). Thanks for the feedback though!

[Nekofrog]

Holy shit. This is coming together to be one truly awesome track, in my view. I spent forever completely revamping the drums, tailoring them more to the actual track instead of just having them be JENOVA's drums from the game.

As for status:

Drums: 80% done, still need to finish them off, some parts are a little bare

Guitars: 90% done, still a few more bits to record here and there

Synth: We'll see, the drumless atmospheric part will need some more backing synth for more atmosphere.

Rest assured, the tune won't simply "end" like it does now, I'll eventually have an ending. I'm looking at this being submittable within a week or so.

http://www.yousendit.com/download/Y2ovV0o5UnE1Ujd2Wmc9PQ

I'll edit a TD link in when their servers are back up.

[SplinterOfChaos]

First: congratulations on your first song (or at least with contributing credits) on OCR!

Second: The song's friken long, now!

Now that the drums are mixed into the song (instead of over), they sound pretty great. Before, I said it sounded like they tried too hard...maybe so, but it's much less noticeable.

One thing I DID like more about the Tensei-San upload was the first seven seconds of heavy drums. After that, I like that the guitar takes over.

[Cyril the Wolf]

There is only one problem I have with this... well kinda two, but mostly just one...

WHERE IS THE KICK DRUM? I shouldn't have to strain to hear it in the mix, ever, never ever. It sounds really far back and not cool with the huge upfront guitars. Even when its doing blastbeaty stuff it doesn't show up very well, which I think is a problem, myself.

Aside from that, I really really like it.

[Nekofrog]

Are you kidding? I was worried that the kick drum was TOO present. It's extremely in-your-face and very clicky.

[Cyril the Wolf]

I completely disagree, no offense. But maybe I'm just wrong.

I mean... it just doesn't seem upfront. It seems farback some how. Did you scoop it? I mean it just doesn't sound THERE to me. I dunno how else to describe it.

EDIT: I guess I just don't like that particular kick sound, apparently a very very subjective thing.