Liontamer Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18749 ALBUM PROJECT: Final Fantasy 4 'Echoes of Betrayal, Light of Redemption' Never thought I'd ever see my 4GB RAM at 96%, but today was a first. I layered in more instruments to play more source as the piece progresses. It actually was there most of the song, but slowly got covered up. I was already on the fence with the voice, and decided to try another direction than continue experimenting with elements that really aren't my style. I admit I jumped the gun submitting this. Kinda had a feeling I'd get rejected after I submitted the first time cuz once my ear fatigue subsided I really started to hear lots of problems, so I had time to come up with new ideas. I'll just let the new changes speak for themselves. Crossing my fingers now cuz at 97% I think my computer explodes or something. James George jamesbgeorge@gmail.com #3557 --------------------------------------------------------------- http://snesmusic.org/v2/download.php?spcNow=ff4 - "The Lunarians" (ff4-41.spc) I didn't give you credit for the source usage provided by the opening piano chord, since that's definitely right from the source. That's enough to push it over 50% source usage, so that's cool. The strings post-3:00 still sounded a bit fake/exposed, and I didn't think the drums fit quite right. The brass also had some brief but awkward dissonance in there. In any case, I'm OK with the overall package, even if the last minute could afford to be tweaked. YES (borderline) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I think overall the strings sounded fake and a bit exposed. Worse past the 3-minute mark. It's not taking away that much from the piece as a whole but it's a shame since they do somehow carry the track at more than one place. I did enjoy the mood of this the last time and I still do. The slightly improved piano around 2:30-> is pretty although a bit too loose for my taste, however it works well. I'm with larry re: the drums, they sound a bit thin and lack the low end to really give the oompfh you're (probably?) aiming for. Cool harmonies in the strings at 3:38, unexpected but damn cool. It gets a bit crowded harmony-wise at around 3:46 though, too much dissonance makes it sound more out of place than challenging and interesting. The production, especially during the first half, was good. When the drums entered it seemed less focused but overall this sounds pretty good. The main issue is sample usage (i.e. strings) but I mentioned that before. My main issue last time was the arrangement. Here it's less liberal with enough arranged material to push it over the bar. I still think this can be tweaked (dissonances and drum sound mainly) so I'm going to hold off my vote for a while and get back after I've given this some thought... EDIT 2/4: After coming back to this I'm going to settle for a resubmit. This would really shine if you fixed the problem areas, go for it! NO(resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Argh. I was completely feeling this one up until the 3:00 mark. Those drums don't cut it - they sound flat and deflate that section. Could see some judges NOing it on that basis, though I think the rest of this arrangement is solid enough to make up for it. The strings in that last section sound improved as well. I still wish the source was used more prominently in the second half, but at least the first half has a constant connection and the entire piece is well connected. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'd love some more thoughts on this before I settle for a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Diggin this. Love the atmosphere; weird synth vs. light piano is really chill. Percussion takes some getting used to at the end there, but I think it works. Nice dynamics. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHz Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 It's not just 3:00 for the strings, they could definitely use some work in their first appearance as well. The piano/synth section 2:00 is pretty boss. The drums at 3:00 are an issue, could be meatier. Kind of like Anso, I think the harmonies at 3:38 are a little weird, but work, but 3:46 is a bit rough. Arrangement is pretty cool, heavy on original stuff but there's still enough source. This is really close, but I think there's just a little too much to work on with the drums, strings, and odd writing near the end. NO (resubmit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vig Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I'm not going to complain about the dissonance or original/source ratio, but i'm leaning towards NO on this one because it's really...not complete, structurally. It's really slow to get started, which is fine by me, i'm really patient when it comes to listening to music (far more so than Mr. Lloyd, anyway), but this never really develops. It only gets started towards the end, and while it seems to be building dynamically, it never gets there. This seems like it has another 4 minutes of song before the ideas are developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I really enjoyed the layed back nature of the first half, the way it slowly brings new parts in. The string samples aren't fantastic, but I think he got away with it just, I think it certainly fits the source. The theremin section was a bit odd, but I love creepy dissonances like that. The second half is kind of a let down compared to that. To be honest, the additions just felt too detached, the strings and brass were playing totally different ideas, not sure I can let that slide, much as I liked the first half. I think just making those harmonies a bit easier on the ears would've been enough for me, but making the drums a bit more interesting couldn't hurt. NO - plz resub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I've been thinking on this one for quite awhile because it's definitely walking the line. There are some great moments, and some that I wish I had the insight I do now back then to help James make this one completely-over-the-line awesome. The mood is exceptionally chill and huge in scope; it's easy for me to visualize a barren moonscape with the heroes slowly making their way to the palace for a final battle. The textures are varied and very cool, and there are some great and subtle crescendos that nudge it forward without making it too forward to leave it's groove. The drums came and added texture without ruining the mood; some judges thought they could be punchier, but I think they serve their purpose fine. The only cons I find with it personally is that the piano is a bit loose in some phrases, and that the string attack is a little slow. The synths are great, and I actually found the brass counterpoint to be refreshingly bold. There are some strongly colored chords, that up the intensity of the piece without it becoming bombastic. It's close, but I think the strengths of this definitely outweigh the weaknesses. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Hope this passes. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Help us, Jimmy-wan Kenobi. You're our only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Come-on guys, I see no reason to NO this. The overall texture is really nice--dark and mysterious with lots of ear candy. I like all the haunting overtones throughout. The strings sound fine. We're not requiring everyone to use QLSO nowadays are we? And I didn't mind the mix. And I didn't mind the 2nd half of the track either, I thought it moved in a nice direction overall. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nice atmospheres at the beginning, though the clicky sine wave synth seemed to clash with the choirs and drone chord a few times. In fact, throughout the piece I heard a number of note clashes. There's dissonance, and there's stuff that just doesn't sound good (or intentional) and to me, this fit mostly into the latter category. Overall, I felt a little confused as to the direction of this piece. The first three minutes were very meandering with no clear direction and a very gradual build that didn't hold my attention at all. The changeup with the acoustic drums is completely unexpected, as is the new texture. Lots of cluttered sections after 3:00, such as 3:32. It's just a mess of random instruments. What is that pounding, pitched drum/synth? Why is it there? It doesn't add anything. So many clashes. Then, we're back to nothing at 3:56. I guess I'm closest to Vig in my opinion. This just doesn't develop. I don't think it works very well as an ambient or soundscape piece because of all the dissonance and weird instrument choices. There also seems to be a preponderance of original material. I'll take anyone's word who says there is more than 50% source here, but I wasn't actually hearing it. Way too many reasons to NO this. Some good ideas and risk-taking here James, but from my perspective it just didn't come together. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Alright, I'm game... listened to the source again, twice, listened to the mix twice. What I love about the track is that it not only maintains but enhances the feel of the original in terms of atmosphere. Honestly, as far as source goes, you've basically got a chord progression on a pattern here, and not much else. Yeah, the artist extrapolated a bit, especially in the last minute, but when talking about how the piece develops, whether there's development, etc., I think the source does need to be considered, because it really doesn't develop much itself. Compared to the source, this introduces a simple melodic line that takes over in the last minute to create something that, on the contrary, does end up in a different place from where it started. The dissonance being referred to is most noticeable with the brass cluster at 3'38" - but it comes back down. It resolves before the end of the bar... I'm no theory expert, but I do feel like I've heard this done countless times in film scores. Generally speaking, it'd be reiterated somewhere else in a piece, to let listeners KNOW it was intentional and to make us all more, uh... tonically comfortable? At any rate, rather than question why individual elements are there, whether they add anything, etc. I'll agree that the conclusion gets a bit cluttered, AND that stronger percussion would have helped... these Lunarians have a somewhat anemic rhythm section - in the words of Leeloo, I wanted Big Badda Boom, and I did not get it. I think rejecting this mix based on development or being too liberal is essentially cutting arrangers off at the feet for source material like this, which requires more patience and extrapolation to work with. So, clean bill of health on arrangement for me. That leaves production and instrumentation. There are definitely issues, and they've all been pointed out. Some are more subjective than others, but I don't think anyone's standing up and shouting "I Am Spartacus" for the drum samples. Nevertheless, nothing here is problematic enough for me to reject, and the first two minutes have some really atmospheric textures that do seem intangibly "lunar". I don't think anyone should be too upset about me saying... YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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