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Golden Sun vs Chrono Trigger - Deadly Duo


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http://junk.seikdel.net/DeadlyDuoFinal.mp3

Okay, it's time to submit this. I've been kicking it around on my hard drive for 3 years since finishing it, and I need to man up and take the feedback.

Setting the stage: You're a young man whose village suffered a catastrophe 3 years ago. On that fateful night, you and your friend were attacked by a pair of vagabonds. They've just now returned, kidnapping your friends in their quest to unleash a forbidden and long-sealed-away power on the world. You have finally cornered them on top of a tall lighthouse, and you have gained the upper hand in battle. As they fall to their knees, lightning flashes and they fuse! A light blinds you, and as you blink the spots out of your eyes, you see a two-headed dragon where your foes were!

The theme of this song is pairs of foes who, together, make up an opponent greater than the sum of the parts. For that, I used battles from these two phenomenal games. There are four songs included in this remix:

Please give me feedback on this. The checklist in this thread is a great place to start. This was my first major remix project, and to be honest, it shows. I bit off a lot to chew, and while I think it holds together pretty well, it was definitely a learning experience for me. One big goal with this project is to add another Golden Sun song to the catalog. The game has an amazing soundtrack, and we've got a sadly sparse offering here.

Thanks for reading, thanks for listening, and thanks for any feedback!

First off, hi. I'm new here. I haven't remixed since way back when I was using modplug tracker. At the moment, I'm trying out Renoise and enjoying the ability to download mediocre-to-good free VSTs. Anyway, since there is a distinct lack of Golden Sun music on oc, I thought I'd try remixing Saturos's battle theme and throwing a little Fusion Dragon music in as well. It's still definitely a work in progress and there's a lot left to do, but I have a good 1:30 of fairly solid music. I originally intended for it to be only a violin/trumpet duet, but that expectation went out the window as I listened to the piece more. Anyway, any and all comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks =)

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo.mp3

Edited by pyro1588
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Nice to hear someone willing to take on this track.

I really like the idea of the instrumentation, especially the horns, but the samples here sound pretty weak. Despite the addition partway through, it also doesn't sound like there's much actual arrangement compared to the original (but then, I'm going from memory). I almost wonder if this would work out better as a purely orchestral piece with less emphasis on drums; the intro has a really nice build.

Good luck.

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I have to agree with Lea. Your Remix sounds very close to the Source (

, but there are some nice build ups you made. The instruments overall are pretty thin, a litte Reverb could help. I love that Flute synth (Shakuhachi?)its fitting perfect to that tune. The Drumroll from 0:46 seems tu full in comparision to the other instruments. Try to make this arrangement into your own style and keep up that work. This track is worth it ;)
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Very weak sounding remix. I haven't heard the original, but this arrangement does sound like it's ripped from a videogame. Try and make something that sounds like a professional mix/arrangement. Find better samples, add eq, compression, reverb; but before you do that try to make a really good arrangement first. If you have no budget at all (I assume you don't since you use modplug), then at least search the internet for some good soundfonts and VSTi plugins. I'm sure the remixing forum has some good resources for you.

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Okay, a few more questions then. Which samples sounded weak? I'm afraid that I haven't been able to find much in the way of decent free VSTs for orchestral instruments. Most of the links in the official thread are dead. Are samples worth using? As a violinist, I kinda liked the slurring effect I can get with a VST. Is that worth losing by using samples?

Secondly, just how different does the remix have to be? Granted, I want to do more than a simple arrangement, but I already cooked up a new harmony (the one that the violin initially plays) and a decently-modified cello line. On top of that I spliced in a section from a decent piece and, although it's not perfect, it's relatively seamless. I've never been a fan of remixes so distant that you can't tell what the source is. I guess my goal with this piece was to take a couple pieces of music that haven't gotten any attention and give them a simple-but-thorough makeover. I still want it to sound like viable boss music, but I do want to do a bit more than just arrange. Is this a reasonable goal or should I scrap that and try to come up with a new piece that takes only basic themes from the source? Any helpful pointers on this area?

Finally, how are the drums? First, is the rhythm too slow, too hurried, too busy, or too much anything else? Second, how are the samples? After an afternoon of frustrated searching for a VST of a simple kit, I was informed that there are no good free drum VSTs. The samples I'm using are recorded from an old Clavinova, but they seem to me to hold their own. Any thoughts on these?

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Soundfonts have been disappointing so far. The big problem is that the violin is such an expressive instrument and can make about a million different sounds. What I need is a forte, arco, sforzando-sounding instrument that can move quickly enough to keep up with the pace of the piece. All the soundfonts I've found either suck or are targetted at background strings. I'm looking through some more VSTs right now.

Part of the problem I'm having is that Renoise just doesn't like soundfonts. It's built for VSTs and, well, techno. The big reason I'm using it is because it's got an intuitive interface that's similar to oldschool trackers and it can use VSTs. Does everyone here pretty much use FruityLoops?

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You will find ppl using Kontakt, Reason, Cubase and other things as well, but in my opinion Fruity Loops is one of the best choice for starters.

I know its pretty expensive, but you get a live long update and there're alot of Tutorials integrated and on Youtube.

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Yup, this is a rehash of what's been said before, but the sample quality is terrible. It's not only the samples, though, it's also the mixing involved. The mix is far too quiet, at the moment.

I use Reason, by the way, but I've found that I can make some pretty decent songs with those that came with the box. At first, I didn't invest into VSTs (even free ones) simply because I was a noob, but now I'm holding off because I want to get all of the other aspects of mixing and mastering down first so when I do get them I'll be unstoppable :)

The point of this rant? If you can't get better samples then micro-adjust the samples you've got by tweaking the attack/release knobs, or adding reverb to them, delay, compression, etc. Working with bad samples is difficult, but it is possible to make them sound better than what they are.

By the way, I liked the arrangement itself. There were parts that sounded like rips, for sure, but there were also some very creative sections.

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I particularly like the music from the Golden Sun games, and am glad to see the tracks being visited.

Just echoing everyone else, the samples are weak, but I can't really help you with that. Everything sounds... MIDI-ish... and just all-around weak.

As far as arrangement goes, though everything sounds good. I like the little insertion of the Fusion Dragon theme toward the end, there, and you flow into and out of it quite nicely in my opinion.

Everything just needs to be... louder... fuller... yeah, fuller is a better word.

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The remix itself has definite potential. I'll just echo everybody else and suggest better music samples. What you're using sounds like it came from a midi file, and lacks the "human" quality. It should like an actual orchestra played this song. A minor suggestion, but when doing orchestral remixes like this, I think it works well to vary tempo. That makes it feel more authentic.

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  • 2 months later...

Not to revive a semi-dead thread, but I've been working on this a little more.

Current issues:

The samples and VSTs. The violin and trumpet aren't perfect, but I have yet to find another solo violin VST or soundfont that sounds half as good as what I have right now. The only one that I might try to replace it with is the Garritan Stradivari, but that one is about fifteen times more labor-intensive than the VST I have right now.

Creativity. Again, this is my first real remixing attempt and I'm fairly new to this. I think I've done a decent job of coming up with some countermelodies and also of stringing two different songs together without too big of a seam. I actually have another piece that fits both the music (fast 6/8 battle) and the theme of the title (2 opponents.) That's the next thing I'm going to try to incorporate.

I still want thoughts, criticism, advice, and any other help you can offer. But please tell me something other than "your VST sucks." I'm still hunting down alternative soundfonts and sifting through pages upon pages of low-quality stuff that just won't cut it. I'm looking for advice on the mix and arrangement. I've cut the drums down a little, put less focus on the trumpet (too much brass originally) and tried to emphasize the cello and bass more.

It's far from finished but I think I've made some fair progress from the last upload. Comments?

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo090616.mp3

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I like the start you have, though I think its still lacking a bit on arrangement.

another suggestion for the samples would be switching this over to collab and getting some people to record the parts live for you. There are definately a few violinists around here, and more than a few truimpet players. I cant say I've heard too many live trumpet recordings on website, but if i can get still get access to the recording studio here, I might even be willing to try it.

best of luck finishing it up, good to see golden sun getting some attention

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At the urging of a friend and fellow musician, I finally got ahold of a decent orchestral VST. And yes, you all were right. It makes a BIG difference. Here's what I was able to rework with the new instruments:

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo090619.mp3

Again, I still have a ton of work to do on these sections, especially when it comes to balancing the instruments. Thanks all for the help so far =)

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I'm not trying to do daily updates, so apologies if people are getting sick of this piece.

I've finally worked in the next (and theoretically last) piece. It's the boss theme from CT that plays while battling Masa and Mune. It fits rhythmically and it also matches the theme (two opponents.)

I need to balance out the timpani. Some notes just seem to hit much louder than others, so I'll have to go through and find the notes that are too loud.

The piano is going to take a more prominent role in the last time through, and I've already got one pattern featuring it on melody. I'm hoping to use it to switch up the rhythm and drum lines a bit.

Overall I'm trying to spice up the music in the last third and make it a little more my own. As always, feedback is welcome and appreciated =)

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo090623.mp3

melody: Yeah, there are some nice ones there. I think I've found my best choice for strings and brass so far, but I'll dig through some more of the soundfonts on that page. Thanks. Also thanks to TheKrow for the link, too.

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  • 11 months later...

Time to resurrect this thread. I recently picked this project up again and dumped several hours into it. This is the result:

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo100611.mp3

It is by no means complete. The challenge now is figuring out how I want to end it.

From 3:09-3:15 needs to be reworked. I pretty much reused the transition from earlier, which was okay when jumping back to the main theme but doesn't work so well as a segue into Saturos & Menardi's battle theme.

Anywho, I like how it's turning out. Much thanks to all who have commented up until now. I think I've made significant improvements to it, especially as compared to the first version. Please let me know your thoughts, comments, likes, and dislikes on the current version. All feedback is appreciated.

Sources:

- Saturos's battle theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4bkp-NjaQ - Saturos & Menardi's battle theme

- Fusion Dragon battle theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShxVXnPIdqU - Masa & Mune's battle theme (aka Chrono Trigger boss theme 2)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Alright, since no one has any feedback...

http://junk.seikdel.net/deadlyduo100630.mp3

I think this is close to the final version. I have to admit that I'm tired of this project and sick of trying to make this song end right. I don't know how to do it perfectly, so I tacked on what's there right now. It'll take a little refining, but I hope to submit this soon. Any feedback? Please?

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  • 3 years later...

http://junk.seikdel.net/DeadlyDuoFinal.mp3

Okay, it's time to submit this. I've been kicking it around on my hard drive for 3 years since finishing it, and I need to man up and take the feedback.

Setting the stage: You're a young man whose village suffered a catastrophe 3 years ago. On that fateful night, you and your friend were attacked by a pair of vagabonds. They've just now returned, kidnapping your friends in their quest to unleash a forbidden and long-sealed-away power on the world. You have finally cornered them on top of a tall lighthouse, and you have gained the upper hand in battle. As they fall to their knees, lightning flashes and they fuse! A light blinds you, and as you blink the spots out of your eyes, you see a two-headed dragon where your foes were!

The theme of this song is pairs of foes who, together, make up an opponent greater than the sum of the parts. For that, I used battles from these two phenomenal games. There are four songs included in this remix:

Please give me feedback on this. The checklist in this thread is a great place to start. This was my first major remix project, and to be honest, it shows. I bit off a lot to chew, and while I think it holds together pretty well, it was definitely a learning experience for me. One big goal with this project is to add another Golden Sun song to the catalog. The game has an amazing soundtrack, and we've got a sadly sparse offering here.

Thanks for reading, thanks for listening, and thanks for any feedback!

Edited by pyro1588
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I would say there are some nice arrangement ideas and I think you did a good job on the instrumentation.

Since this is an orchestral remix my biggest complaint is that everything sounds a bit artificial, maybe it's the samples or the sequencing or both. The drums in particular sound very mechanical.

I would suggest to put this up for mod review to get some in-depth feedback.

keep at it!

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I would say there are some nice arrangement ideas and I think you did a good job on the instrumentation.

Since this is an orchestral remix my biggest complaint is that everything sounds a bit artificial, maybe it's the samples or the sequencing or both. The drums in particular sound very mechanical.

I would suggest to put this up for mod review to get some in-depth feedback.

keep at it!

I agree: arrangement and instrumentation are excellent! A mechanical sound can usually be fixed by humanization (varying velocity and timing very very slightly). Some DAWs (like Reaper) have the ability to do this for you, but if yours doesn't you'll have to do it manually.

The only way I can see to improve this is to use better samples, but it's fine the way it is now. Arrangement and instrumentation can trump samples.

Definitely put this up for mod review.

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Alright, I've made some final tweaks to the mixing and I'm ready for mod review!

I was going to upload this to youtube, but then I did a little research on their automatic license to do whatever the hell they want with it. Does anyone have any recommendations for other places to post remixes where I won't be giving it out to google to do what they want with it? Thanks =)

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