Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver

[Archaon]

4) No more grid. Seriously, it sucks. Give us free-range movement. Maybe make better sprites while you're at it.

I honestly don't get why they haven't done a full 3D incarnation of the games yet. As in a standard formula "catch 'em all" game, rather than the likes of Colosseum. Not that deviating from the formula is bad. I mean, Colosseum had potential in being an actual story-driven RPG for once, but the whole "steal an extremely limited selection of mons from other trainers" thing...pretty much crippled it. Really, take the classic gameplay elements of the handheld games and the story and full 3D graphics of the Colosseum games and I can almost guarantee you'd have an instant hit.

My only theory is that Nintendo doesn't actually like steaming great wads of cash as much as they let on.

[The Damned]

It's really more to do with Game Freak's abilties, I would think.

Years ago, back before they got into the whole Pokémon thing, they made a rather well-received platformer called Pulse Man. Their skill at the platformer is evidenced by Drill Dozer for the GBA as well, which was a fun, unique game that was sadly overshadowed by pretty much everything else that month. Both had solid mechanics and enjoyable characters, and were nicely animated.

But this never seemed to carry over to the Pokémon series.

I want you to think about any Pokémon game they have made on any system. Go ahead, I'll give you a minute or two.

OK, think about the graphics and the plot. Now compare those of the Pokémon games to any concurrent RPG on the same system. GameBoy to DS, N64 to Wii.

You'll notice that the Pokémon games aren't exactly pushing any limits. They consistently produce games that do not match that of similar titles during the same time period. Hell, they don't even match up to the last period sometimes.

It seems that Game Freak is either unable or unwilling to bring their games up to a reasonable level of production, and I think this hurts it the most. It may be easy to make games that aren't as complex or detailed, but after a decade, it would be nice to see some improvements in some of these areas.

[ocre]

I guess this is as good a place as any to let you guys know that there's going to be a Darkrai "Member Card" (Key Item)event over Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection from August 3rd-September 13th. This will be for Pokemon Platinum only, and is for the NA territories. Note that you have to have activated the Mystery Gift option in your game (I'll let you look that up yourselves).

EDIT: Whoops. I didn't realize this had been brought up before. Guess I'll leave it up in case someone didn't see it.

Can't wait to play HG/SS.

[Aninymouse]

I honestly don't get why they haven't done a full 3D incarnation of the games yet. As in a standard formula "catch 'em all" game, rather than the likes of Colosseum. Not that deviating from the formula is bad. I mean, Colosseum had potential in being an actual story-driven RPG for once, but the whole "steal an extremely limited selection of mons from other trainers" thing...pretty much crippled it. Really, take the classic gameplay elements of the handheld games and the story and full 3D graphics of the Colosseum games and I can almost guarantee you'd have an instant hit.

My only theory is that Nintendo doesn't actually like steaming great wads of cash as much as they let on.

I re-read an interview recently (it's interesting!), and in it the president of the Pokemon Company & the director of Platinum are asked flat-out why Game Freak itself has never tried for a console or MMO Pokemon game. Their answer is not wholly satisfying, but it was an aspect I hadn't considered: trading.

See, most of us just focus on the overworld & battling, but trading is just as - if not moreso - important than those, when considering Pokemon's success. On console games, you have set times when you play, you need a TV, etc. Handhelds are an all-inclusive package, so they're perfect for quick setups, free time and traveling.

As much as I'd like a MMO-style game in the Pokemon world, it would require me ot sit at my desk for much longer than I already do, whereas with Pokemon as it is now, I can take it with me around the house and on the road.

EDIT: here's a new demo video with much better video quality. It shows a lot of stuff that the guy from Pokebeach didn't bother with, and the guy playing actually has a clue what he's doing. Shows Ecruteak City and the Dance Hall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_vgK1cObRI

[cobaltstarfire]

Well that interview pointed out something else pretty nice.

G4: Legendary Pokemon have been getting more powerful since gamers encountered Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos in Kanto. Giratina, the cover Pokemon for Platinum, is ridiculously powerful. Arceus is like the god of all Pokemon. Will there be anything more powerful than Arceus in future games?

Junichi Masuda: In Diamond and Pearl you have Dialga and Palkia. In Platinum you have Giratina. There are three legendary Pokemon and there's a relationship between the three. From there we have a story to move onto with other legendary Pokemon, but at this point that's all I can share.

So maybe something really interesting and different is in the future, because they make it seem like D/P/P was setting up for the next gen game that come out.

I'm not very satisfied with the "trading" response, it's mostly just addressing the "why not on a home console pokemon game" bit, they can make a more "proper" rpg or even an MMO and keep it portable.

[DJ-star]

Something cool they could do (but will never do) is make a game for a platform with graphics like FF. They can have the trainer run around like the FF games and encounter random battle the same way, and in the battle you can control the pokemon in a 3d battle field and have 4 of you move set to 4 button on the controller. (and in the main menu you can assign any of the moves you've learn in the past to the 4 attack slots)

But making 3d movement for all the pokemon and the attack animation would take alot of work not to mention the full 3d world, different types of battle fields, the peolpe in the game, and cut sences.

I bet even the poeple of Final Fantasy would have trouble making a game like this.

Finally, the main problem is that the Pokemon games are targeted for kids not older teens.

[cobaltstarfire]

Something cool they could do (but will never do) is make a game for a platform with graphics like FF. They can have the trainer run around like the FF games and encounter random battle the same way.

I think I'll stick to having limited control on when I have an encounter thank you very much.

[The Damned]

Something cool they could do (but will never do) is make a game for a platform with graphics like FF. They can have the trainer run around like the FF games and encounter random battle the same way, and in the battle you can control the pokemon in a 3d battle field and have 4 of you move set to 4 button on the controller. (and in the main menu you can assign any of the moves you've learn in the past to the 4 attack slots)

OK, you've moved from "lets change the game to be better" to "let's make it more like a completely different game".

Having access to only four moves per pokémon is the entire point behind the game. You're supposed to find a team that is balanced and varied enough so you can progress through the game without too much difficulty, yet not enough so that you can just stomp your way through.

FF games get away with having dozens of moves per character because they often gain access to a lot of different spells, not to mention the plots are usually a lot longer. They also have a wider variety of enemies and bosses, so having ten variations on healing spells comes in handy when your into your 50th turn with a boss. You can conserve your more powerful spells for when you need them.

Pokémon doesn't work that way. You have easy access to healing places at any given time, so conserving "MP" isn't that big an issue. You can save at any point in the overworld map or dungeons, so it's not like getting back to the next boss is a massive order like some of the FF games.

I like having to figure out what to do with the 24 slots across 6 team members. It forces you to think about how you're going to handle everything that you come across in the future, even if you don't know what it is.

I bet even the people of Final Fantasy would have trouble making a game like this.

Not really. You see, SquarEnix (is that the new combo now? Where you combine the "e" and "E"?) has a budget of millions of dollars for each game in their series, and they have over 3000 people working on all the different parts of their games.

Game Freak has 37 people in their staff. Ever. And their average budget for a game is more like hundreds of thousands.

If SE did make a pokémon game, they would easily have the staff and the time to do it. It's just that they never will, seeing how they like to make the big-budget titles, and Game Freak is more inclined to smaller, modest games.

Finally, the main problem is that the Pokemon games are targeted for kids not older teens.

If that's true, then why are the majority of people that play teens and adults? Go to just about any site where pokémon fans gather, and there will be or has been some sort of survey or poll about age. The majority of them will state they have an age of 12 and higher.

Unfortunately, there does not seem to be any formal survey. I think it would be interesting to see what kind of demographic spread we would see.

[Archaon]

You're supposed to find a team that is balanced and varied enough so you can progress through the game without too much difficulty, yet not enough so that you can just stomp your way through.

But let's be honest, you're probably going to stomp your way through anyway.

If that's true, then why are the majority of people that play teens and adults? Go to just about any site where pokémon fans gather, and there will be or has been some sort of survey or poll about age. The majority of them will state they have an age of 12 and higher.

Yeah, but to be fair, this kind of assumes that most kids under the age of twelve are on the Internet and know how to use it properly.

[The Damned]

But let's be honest, you're probably going to stomp your way through anyway.

Not necessarily. You can do a playthrough using theme teams, like one I did where I used only the Fossil pokémon (Aerodactyl, Kabuto, etc...). Even with type combinations, it was still a Rock-type team. I had problems in the Grass and Water Gyms, obviously, but also with the Elite Four because of this. It was still a balanced team, covering Physical and Special attacking, and a nice mix of support moves and HMs, but it wasn't easy.

Yeah, but to be fair, this kind of assumes that most kids under the age of twelve are on the Internet and know how to use it properly.

You'd be surprised. There are a lot of kids out there, and you may not even know they are children.

Also, why hasn't the topic title been changed yet? We know the proper titles of the games now, so... ?

[Archaon]

Not necessarily. You can do a playthrough using theme teams, like one I did where I used only the Fossil pokémon (Aerodactyl, Kabuto, etc...). Even with type combinations, it was still a Rock-type team. I had problems in the Grass and Water Gyms, obviously, but also with the Elite Four because of this. It was still a balanced team, covering Physical and Special attacking, and a nice mix of support moves and HMs, but it wasn't easy.

I did a solo, no-evolution run a while ago. I only lost once, and even that was because I got cocky and decided I didn't need to cure that one case of Paralysis, whereupon the game proceeded to work its bullshitomancy and rendered me unable to move for SIX TURNS IN A ROW.

Granted, the major upside of a solo run is that one mon is getting all the XP, and your opponent being level 30 whilst you are LEVEL GOD is a pretty big advantage, evolution or not.

[Gollgagh]

Also, why hasn't the topic title been changed yet? We know the proper titles of the games now, so... ?

because the OP is a lazy lurker and the mods aren't coddling any more

[Archaon]

because the OP is a lazy lurker and the mods aren't coddling any more

I hereby put forward a motion to reinstate moddycoddling.

[The Damned]

That sounds like some old fashioned drink from the 1900s.

Ere' oh, chaps! A round o' moddycoddles on th' house!

[DJ-star]

(I know this post is late)

whether you except it or not, the Pokemon games are target for kids.

Its just that loyal Pokemon fans will keep buying them (even if they started when they were 5 or 15)

[Dopple Boppler]

because the OP is a lazy lurker and the mods aren't coddling any more

I formally apologize for my inborn OCR forum inadequacy; topic title change'd.

[cobaltstarfire]

(I know this post is late)

whether you except it or not, the Pokemon games are target for kids.

Its just that loyal Pokemon fans will keep buying them (even if they started when they were 5 or 15)

They might be "targeted" at kids, but they aren't targeted at only kids.

[The Damned]

Yeah, last I head, "E for Everybody " meant everybody.

[DJ-star]

Yeah, last I head, "E for Everybody " meant everybody.

That E rating just means its suitable for every one that can play the game (like kids and older teens)

just like a T ratings means it suitable for Teens and up.

(there is never going to be a K rating, much easier to stick with E)

[Lovely Peach]

I am somewhat interested in the remakes - Crystal was my first Pokemon game and definitely my favorite and I wonder if these would get me back into the Pokemon craze again (the horrors!) Part of me is afraid to go back to the addiction tho.

I would love to raise another Eeveelutions team. I so loved my little Espeon and Umbreon. So many hours cycling along Goldenrod City to hatch Eevee eggs and train those little suckers.

[Gollgagh]

That E rating just means its suitable for every one that can play the game (like kids and older teens)

just like a T ratings means it suitable for Teens and up.

(there is never going to be a K rating, much easier to stick with E)

I take it you weren't around when it was K-A

[cobaltstarfire]

That E rating just means its suitable for every one that can play the game (like kids and older teens)

just like a T ratings means it suitable for Teens and up.

(there is never going to be a K rating, much easier to stick with E)

And that last interview they did of the pokemon people pretty much said they're trying to cater to everyone not just kids. I don't really care what the rating is or isn't, the target audience is not only children.

My guy has gone from relatively non-plused and uninterested in pokemon, to obsessed with it. I gave him my old gold cart about 6 months ago. He's decided he's going to catch and train every single pokemon available to him in the game. And he's started calculating their IVs even though he doesn't really need to. I have a feeling he's going to stomp me into the ground when we get the remakes, cause he's probably going to IV/EV pokemon from the start or something insane like that, because he seems to derive a lot of amusement from calculating IV's and stuff by hand.

He's also pretty excited about it cause it means he'll be able to get more pokemon including the ones that can only be gotten through trade or event. Maybe some of us should do that, not play for 3 generations, then come back later and have fun with all the minuscule improvements and new additions.

[The Damned]

That's sort of my plan. I'm going to skip HG/SS and then wait for the third edition of the 5th gen games. I've never had any of the third versions, and with more unlockable/downloadable content (like in Platinum), I'd like to try it.

Besides, it seems that the games are coming out faster now. Was it really only two years before Platinum came out? Diamond and Pearl came out here April 22nd, 2007, and then Platinum came out March 22nd, 2009. That's less than two years.

And now that HG/SS are slated for a Spring 2010 release for North America, that means within three years, we will have five games. Five games.

I remember when it was a long wait between 1st and 2nd gen games... and the wait for 3rd gen was almost forever.

[DJ-star]

anyway forgetting about the rating....

I kind of hope that they make the mystery event sort of the same as there were back then. When you can link with friends and get items for your room (like posters, rugs, doll, big doll, and game consoles ^ _ ^). They can also still keep the whole getting Nintendo events with WFC and all.

[Aninymouse]

They probably will keep that feature, since they put an IR sensor in the DS card for it to communicate with the PokeWalker.

This also means that the old Trainer House - where you could battle your friend's current party in Viridian City for Exp - will also likely return.