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Night10194

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Alessa doesn't have any influence on Walter
And Harry isn't pyramid head, but that doesn't stop people from saying the opposite ;)
One, that the holes in Henry's room were not portals to an alternate world, but portals to different places within Walter's world, which is entirely interconnected (as you learn by escorting Eileen through the 2nd Visits).
See, I got that much...just like I got the fact that all of the places you visit in the game are related to Walter somehow.

But this is what I don't get. The general consensus about SH1 is that Alessa is creating the other world to punish people, but leaves items along the way to help you get through and, hopefully, help her. But if Walter greated the world in SH4 why would he help you? I mean no, there isn't an abundance of stuff like the previous games (except for those goddamned golf clubs) but you've still got enough to get through. Personally speaking I usually end up with surplus stuff in the chest at the end of the game.

This means that some images that Henry saw through his windows, peephole and other views may have been layered, if not entirely within Walter's world.
Kinda like how Walter's standing at his door in the second round of the apartments? Gotcha.
To answer your question specifically about Superintendent Frank, the diary entry gives a little ambiguity to the idea that Frank dreamed that he saw Walter entering Room 302 with a blood-dripped bag ten years ago, rather than seeing it with his own eyes.
Doesn't Frank leave a note in his diary about people complaining about "The guy in the long coat"?

(Which could be anyone were it not in a video game, when it's only going to be one or two people)

What I find hard to believe about the diary entry is that Frank wouldn't have noticed an entire room missing from the apartment (the secret store-room). That you'll have to figure out for yourself.

SPOILARZ (is it sad that that's how I instinctively typed that? I think so)

What I find hard to believe is that nobody noticed the smell of crucified serial killer coming from the back room...even through walls, the smell of corpses is damn hard to get rid of.

Alessa is seen in Misty Silent Hill. Cybil sees the girl in both Silent Hill and the Silent Hill Play Novel.
Does she? I know she talks about a girl taking Bachman road (and how said road is out)...but does she specifically say it's Alessa? It could be another image of Cheryl like you get at the very beginning.
Dahlia doesn't really take Alessa to Nowhere. Nowhere is Alessa's world (memories) collasped upon itself.
Well yes, I didn't mean it like Dahlia carted Alessa off in a bag somewheres...but she gave you the Flauros because she knew it'd trap Alessa. Eventually.
I was thinking of getting Silent Hill 2 given its reputation. Are the games inter-related in any way, or are they seperate stories each time?
Silent Hill 2 is a separate story from SH1 and you won't gain any deeper understanding of SH2 by playing SH1 first.

The only games you could do with playing in order are 1 and 3...but Sh3 gives you a summation of SH1 halfway through anyway, so it's not a necessity.

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But this is what I don't get. The general consensus about SH1 is that Alessa is creating the other world to punish people, but leaves items along the way to help you get through and, hopefully, help her. But if Walter created the world in SH4 why would he help you? I mean no, there isn't an abundance of stuff like the previous games (except for those goddamned golf clubs) but you've still got enough to get through. Personally speaking I usually end up with surplus stuff in the chest at the end of the game.

Was wondering about that just as I read it, but maybe it's possible that Walter created his own world, and in his own world he scattered ammo around to help himself out? The ammo may have never been meant for Henry to use, but for Walter.

Evidence for that might be that the only firearms in the game are pistols...and Walter himself uses pistols. So he'd keep ammo around to keep himself armed.

But then I suppose that theory would eventually fall apart, right? He hides ammo in a lot of places where you never see him. Not to mention, why would he hide a gun in Henry's apartment? I don't imagine it was to give Henry a sporting chance to keep himself alive.

But...

If Walter didn't put the ammo there for himself, then it would have had to have been for Henry - maybe because Walter wanted Henry to make it all the way to the end, where he could complete the 21 Sacraments?

Guess I'm rambling :)

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Warning: Silent Hill 4: The Room and Silent Hill Spoilers

But this is what I don't get. The general consensus about SH1 is that Alessa is creating the other world to punish people, but leaves items along the way to help you get through and, hopefully, help her. But if Walter created the world in SH4 why would he help you? I mean no, there isn't an abundance of stuff like the previous games (except for those goddamned golf clubs) but you've still got enough to get through. Personally speaking I usually end up with surplus stuff in the chest at the end of the game.

Was wondering about that just as I read it, but maybe it's possible that Walter created his own world, and in his own world he scattered ammo around to help himself out? The ammo may have never been meant for Henry to use, but for Walter.

Evidence for that might be that the only firearms in the game are pistols...and Walter himself uses pistols. So he'd keep ammo around to keep himself armed.

But then I suppose that theory would eventually fall apart, right? He hides ammo in a lot of places where you never see him. Not to mention, why would he hide a gun in Henry's apartment? I don't imagine it was to give Henry a sporting chance to keep himself alive.

But...

If Walter didn't put the ammo there for himself, then it would have had to have been for Henry - maybe because Walter wanted Henry to make it all the way to the end, where he could complete the 21 Sacraments?

Guess I'm rambling :)

There is one thing that people forget about sometimes in Silent Hill 4, the assistance by Joseph Schreiber (aka Victim 15). You can debate whether or not Joseph is actually helping Henry out or if he is simply another lost soul working towards the fulfillment of the Sacraments for the Decent of the Holy Mother, but either way, Joseph is intent on providing Henry with what he needs to reach the Ultimate Truth. There are certain clues left behind in the game that suggest this.

For instance, Jasper refers to someone called "that real nosey guy" who seems to be searching for information and clues about Wish House, the cult of Silent Hill, etc. It's uncertain as to when Jasper met the "nosey guy," but it seems clear that it wasn't too long ago. Some people infer that he is Walter Sullivan who is wandering around the world, preparing to kill his victims, but I doubt that, since Jasper refers to his killer as "the Devil." (Which I can only assume is Walter.) From the way that Jasper refers to the "nosey guy," I believe that it is (or was) Joseph Schreiber who spoke to Jasper, was collecting information, and gave him the trowel (Blood-Inscribed Spade).

Later, when Henry speaks to him in Room 302 of the Past, Joseph's speech leads Henry to find the Pickaxe of Hope, the tool necessary for him to uncover Walter's body, obtain the Keys of Liberation and enter the Chamber of Ten Hearts (all of which are essential for Henry's final confrontation with Walter). Joseph even offers advise on a way to destroy Walter's body and collapse his world by informing Henry of the words in the Crimson Tome (an item that I'm still a little unsure about in its purpose in the series as a whole). So, it is a possible explanation that Joseph is responsible for placing the majority of helpful items in the game.

Joseph does also give Henry other important items placed under his door that help him at certain dead-ends, such as the Key to Room 303 (well, he really only helps Henry find the key), the Succubus Talisman, the Small Key (used to open the gate in the elevator shaft of Hospital World) and, not to mention, the Red Diary.

However, something else got me to thinking that it isn't Walter leaving these items around, because the one item that you clearly see Walter leave behind for Henry causes his apartment to be cursed, the Shabby Doll. The item itself didn't necessarily hold any malice towards Henry (since it doesn't really hold any meaning for him) and Walter didn't particularly hate the item (since it was a gift from Eileen and a reminder of the happiness shared by mother and child), so I am making the assumption that if Walter had left any items behind for Henry (or himself) to use later, they would have cursed Henry's apartment as well had he stored them in the trunk. It seems a little outlandish that Walter was so dangerous that even the items he touched would cause them to be cursed (or maybe he actually "purifies" them?), but it still seems plausible.

But this is what I don't get. The general consensus about SH1 is that Alessa is creating the other world to punish people, but leaves items along the way to help you get through and, hopefully, help her.

That depends on your theory about SH1 in general. Personally, I believe that Alessa's world was created in order to distance herself from Dahlia and the "real world." (How much more distance can you place between yourself and another person than an entire world? But, for a 14-year-old girl, I guess the town was her entire world.) I believe that the person who was placing the items around Alessa's world was Dahlia, since she needed Harry to find Cheryl/Alessa (something he couldn't do entirely on his own) and since Alessa didn't have a complete grasp* on her "world."

*Mentioned in an earlier theory about the internal struggle between Alessa, Cheryl and the god.

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Warning: Silent Hill 4 Spoilers
Just a side note, but Dahlia is directly tied to Walter's actions as a child in SH4, I don't know if this was said earlier or not. Anyway, she (as is implied in a diary I think) was the one that suggested that he go and "visit" his mother, (the Room) I believe...I'm pretty sure, can someone check on this?

From the diary entry, it's somewhat unclear as to whether Dahlia was addressing Walter directly or whether it was just something that she said while meeting with the Holy Mother sect. Either way, Walter misinterpretted the message. I don't think that Dahlia was refering to Walter's actual or perceived mother, but likely to the Holy Mother. I mean, how could she know the location of this particular orphan's birth parents immediately on their first meeting? From Walter's diary, Walter over-reacts at the mention of this and wants to see his mother in order to find solice in someone meant to love him unconditionally as an escape from the treatment he was receiving under the care of Wish House. I don't believe that it's a coincidence that the mention of Dahlia and her visit are listed after Walter's recants about his life at Wish House.

It isn't until Walter actually gets to Ashfield and is unable to locate his mother that he begins thinking that his mother is in Room 302 of South Ashfield Heights Apartments (and then ultimately that the room itself is his mother). Walter's search is entirely out of his own desire to see his mother, not by suggestion that he see her by Dahlia or anyone else. Also, she mentions Ashfield, not specifically South Ashfield, where Walter spends the majority of the time searching. In fact, the diary even suggests that Walter was advised not to go to South Ashfield, because it is a "scary place."

felixmcli.org - Silent Hill 4 The Room - Notes (Red Writings) (Specifically, entries Oct. 16th & Oct. 17th)

The important lady told me mommy

was asleep in Ashfield.

I got a mommy too! I'm really happy!

I wanna see her. Where is Ashfield

anyhow?

Hmmm, the phrasing to this is VERY ODD. I still don't really understand the significance of "mommy

was asleep in Ashfield"

Why would that be said? What is so special about Ashfield to the Holy Mother Sect? I did understand the Holy Mother sleeping part. But regardless, my point was that Dahlia is still ultimately responsible for leaving Walter with that impression, and also ultimately (even if that's not what she meant) pointing him in the direction of "The Room", even if he twisted her words (along with all of the doctrine he read.) Anyway, I always thought it was very cool that they tied her in there...That harlott sure is responsible for a hell of a lot of misery.

Also, in terms of which games to play in which order. I really DO recommend you play them in numerical order if you can, as even though most people like the second one the best, I really ANTICIPATED a lot when I played the second one, and it made my play through of it all that much better.

It's funny that I rented the first one when it came out...but only for the first five minutes, then I dropped the controller and didn't pick it up again until a week before SH2 was released (which I had no idea was coming out at the time). So after finally beating SH1, I went out and bougth SH2 brand new, and it added up to the scariest one-two weeks of my life -_-.

Anyway, you can settle on playing the second one first, if you can't find SH1, but eh, game one is so underappreciated. Also, DON'T play 3 without playing the first game, because 3 is the sequel. It ruins a lot if you do. The fourth one is related to all of the others in some way, but is also pretty self contained, so you could even start out with that, if you had to.

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It's funny that I rented the first one when it came out...but only for the first five minutes, then I dropped the controller and didn't pick it up again

I did the exact same thing. I rented it, with my sister, because it looked cool. We played until we came to the café, and then we were to scared to do ANYTHING, so we quickly turned off the game, and never played again. Some years later, the rental place was selling out all of their games extremely cheap, so I bought Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill for a total of about $10. This time I managed to beat it, and I was hooked. Shortly afterwards, SH3 was released, so I bought that (not knowing the striong connection it had to SH1) without having played SH2. This was during the summer. The christmas that year, I wished for SH2: Director's Cut, and got it. It's been my favorite in the series ever since. Then I bought SH4 on the releasedate.

I think this play order was quite perfect, but playing the games in numerical order might be even better. I'm not sure.

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It's funny that I rented the first one when it came out...but only for the first five minutes, then I dropped the controller and didn't pick it up again

I did the exact same thing. I rented it, with my sister, because it looked cool. We played until we came to the café, and then we were to scared to do ANYTHING, so we quickly turned off the game, and never played again. Some years later, the rental place was selling out all of their games extremely cheap, so I bought Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill for a total of about $10. This time I managed to beat it, and I was hooked. Shortly afterwards, SH3 was released, so I bought that (not knowing the striong connection it had to SH1) without having played SH2. This was during the summer. The christmas that year, I wished for SH2: Director's Cut, and got it. It's been my favorite in the series ever since. Then I bought SH4 on the releasedate.

I think this play order was quite perfect, but playing the games in numerical order might be even better. I'm not sure.

That is a good play order, but anyway...I think playing the first first one is always a good choice, regardless.

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Are they never going to post a link so we can look at all the posters? Are people just supposed to get theirs voted on by showing other people their links? What a shitty system.

Oh snap, somebody made a site that browses the posters so you can vote appropriately and posted it to that silenthillforum site: http://dekonstruktiv.org/temp/shposter/

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Some of these posters could make good wallpapers...

By the way, does anyone have any great site links to some really good SH wallpapers? I'm not sure if anyone has linked to these before in this thread (I guess I'm too lazy to look on my crappy modem).

Hmmm...

I really love SH2 Promise (reprise), it's an outstanding song.

Makes me very happy that there was recognizable Akira Yamaoka music in the teaser too. I'm very hopeful.

I need to get my ps2 back so I can replay SH2 again...I traded it to my brother for his x-box, and now I have a craving to play something...I may have to go out and actually buy an x-box version.

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********SPOILERS AHEAD********

Okay guys, let's have some Silent Hill 2 theory discussion:

A long time ago I went to the silenthillforum site, and ran into some guy named "TheAdversary". To summarize, he has this interesting theory that Mary was confined in Brookhaven Hospital for five days, and then released to go see James the day before he killed her. He also claims that the rooftop diary was in fact, Mary's and that she was suicidal. Most of all of the stuff he claims is in the below topic. It IS an interesting theory, but I've already gone over all of my doubts over there at that forum, and realized that some people just want to be right, no matter what the cost, instead of having a good hearted debate.

Tonight I went back there, and I laughed a little bit that he and others are still singing the same exact tune with other people. So it gave me an idea: I want to know what you smart and cool people over here think. Is this guy right? Instead of me jumping around on a flame spree, let's debate over here. It might give this topic a little more life anyway.

What do you think?

http://www.silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=132&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

ps. sorry for the triple posts..jeez

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Bump for Mono.

Well with a sudden twist of fate, they've reduced the spots for finalist of the poster contest I think... Apparently there's only going to be 5 by Friday.

Not really. The top 50 posters were sent directly to the Sony/TriStar Marketing Team, who will narrow the choices down to the top 5 from those 50. They began reviewing posters yesterday and will continue until tomorrow. The finalists' posters will be posted for public viewing on the 20th. (This was explained earlier.)

It just seems that the people running the contest decided not to post the results of the preliminary voting round, so we don't know who the top 50 posters are. It's possible that after the contest is completely over, they'll post the complete results of the contest and you'll be able to see where you placed. Granted that will be a long time, but you'll know whether or not you made it into the top 5 by Friday afternoon.

Warning: Silent Hill 2 Spoilers

Okay guys, let's have some Silent Hill 2 theory discussion:

A long time ago I went to the silenthillforum site, and ran into some guy named "TheAdversary". To summarize, he has this interesting theory that Mary was confined in Brookhaven Hospital for five days, and then released to go see James the day before he killed her. He also claims that the rooftop diary was in fact, Mary's and that she was suicidal. Most of all of the stuff he claims is in the below topic. It IS an interesting theory, but I've already gone over all of my doubts over there at that forum, and realized that some people just want to be right, no matter what the cost, instead of having a good hearted debate.

Tonight I went back there, and I laughed a little bit that he and others are still singing the same exact tune with other people. So it gave me an idea: I want to know what you smart and cool people over here think. Is this guy right? Instead of me jumping around on a flame spree, let's debate over here. It might give this topic a little more life anyway.

What do you think?

I don't feel that there is any need for discussion on this because it has a very easy answer, which can be found in the very first paragraph of Mary's (complete) Letter. She writes:

In my restless dreams, I see that town. Silent Hill. You promised you'd take me there again someday, but you never did. Well, I'm alone there now, in our special place, waiting for you. Waiting for you to come to see me, but you do...

Coupled with the story that Laura gives about obtaining Mary's Letters suggests that Mary wrote both letters before she left to go "home." These things suggest that Mary and Laura were hospitalized outside of Silent Hill/South Vale. In addition, if she had written those letters before she supposedly went to Brookhaven, then the context of the diary written in Brookhaven doesn't make complete sense.

In Mary's letter to James, she wishes him to lead his own life again after she's gone. She makes peace between herself and her illness, her fate to die. Although she is sad that her life is ending, she is happy that she shared it with her someone special. The diary in Brookhaven on the other hand gives a sense that the person writing the diary has given up on life rather than accepting the inevitability that they will die. Although these two comments seem similar, they are very different when you consider a person's emotional state. Giving up on life is a response when you feel that there is no hope in life to continue to live. Accepting that you will die means that you value life and the purpose of living, but that you know that it is part of the nature of things, that life begins and life ends.

However, I'm not going to totally refute what the Adversary wrote, because there are some doubts placed within the game that could be interpretted such that Mary did go back to Silent Hill. However, one major problem with that is that it opens the door again to the idea that the main character in the game is actually running around a populated city killing innocent people because he/she thinks they're monsters. It is not something that can be taken lightly and causes huge reprocussions when you consider the story.

I think that people should also consider Maria's interpretation of things as well. Although born from James' wish to see Mary again, is she susceptable to James' delutions as well, that the town is not really abandoned and crawling with monsters?

In short, this is an interesting theory that plays on the emotions of the player and casts a different light on the things you experience in the game, but when you consider the concept as a whole, it is probably not the case. Anyway, as someone in that thread said earlier, definitely food for thought.

EDIT: Silent Hill Film Update

Silent Hill Film Trailer Confirmed:

According to Bloody-Disgusting.com, the trailer for Silent Hill is definitely being featured along with certain prints of Underworld: Evolution. The report comes from an email sent by a fan, fragilen1n, who was treated to an early screening of Sony's sequel to Underworld. In addition to the confirmation of the trailer's presence with the film, it is reported that it is indeed a brand-spankin'-new full-length trailer and not simply the teaser (featured on the Silent Hill website) converted to big-screen format. So definitely keep you eyes peeled for the trailer to appear online tomorrow or, better yet, go see Underworld: Evolution for the ultimate trailer experience. (However, rumors suggest that only half of the printings of U:E have the trailer attached. The rest of the printings will feature the trailer for Ultraviolet in its place.)

Warning: Possible Film Spoilers & Definite Trailer Spoilers

Bloody-Disgusting - "The Trailer Park: See 'Silent Hill' Tomorrow!!"

Silent Hill Forum - Additional Confirmation (Thanks to LifetoLifeless)

Silent Hill Forum - Detailed Trailer Description (Thanks to Bogus)

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Silent Hill Film Update:

Forget waiting, the full-length theatrical trailer is online NOW! Go check it out now on Yahoo'>http://movies.yahoo.com]Yahoo Movies. The trailer is exactly as described earlier and is indeed a brand-new collection of scenes. The trailer runs at a length of 2 minutes and 30 seconds (2:30) and sets up the beginning of the entire film and possibly up to the middle. Scenes and moments from the original Silent Hill are abound as the trailer tries to recreate the experience of playing the game. Images of the monsters shown in the teaser are shown a little more clearly, due to the fact that they removed the grain filter from the film itself. You may also find that the monsters feel even creepier than before given how Rose interacts with some of them. However, the trailer does treat us to a small treat, new music. The music featured in the trailer features classic pieces from the Silent Hill soundtracks, but also contains some new ambient works containing that trademark Yamaoka flair. Personally, I was hoping to hear some new melodic pieces or even an arranged version of the theme, "Silent Hill," for film score.

Warning: Possible Film Spoilers

Yahoo Movies - Silent Hill Theatrical Trailer

Now, that you've viewed the trailer, you may not feel as confident about the film as before. (Personally, I was just a little unsatisfied.) It seems as though the film is just a watered-down version of the first game, and find that the quotes refering to "hell" and "the dark one" to be too forward and ackward to be a part of the Silent Hill series, which makes it sound somewhat clique' of horror films. I think that the producers and director are underestimating the intelligence of the Silent Hill fan and, in my opinion, the viewing public. If people don't come out of the theater, the way gamers got up from their consoles, going "What the hell was that all about?," then I feel that Davis Films didn't fulfill the expectations of a Silent Hill work. This is something that I feared from the beginning, but have come to expect as the likely outcome.

In any case, I still feel excited about the film, because despite any personal feelings I have toward seeing this trailer, it still looks better than any videogame-to-film movie I've ever seen. I love the look of the crawling walls and the nurses that don't move.

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I wasn't sure what to think of the trailer at first. It definitely had the fog and ash and just the general look of SH down in the beginning, but once I saw some of the more surreal areas and creatures I was pretty much sold. It's going to be one hell (no pun intended) of a tough wait for me.

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Some of my thoughts mirror Ifrit's. I definitely feel more skeptical concerning some of the dialogue. Second, my other complaint stems from the trailer: the film is too "bright".

They seem to have done the same thing that was done with Alien: Ressurection, and that's being able to see everything. Period. I never thought that the darkened hallways of Silent Hill would ever be so well lit.

On the other hand the creatures all look fine and dandy, but even then I can still see them too well. I think Gans should have taken a page from Alien regarding lightining...

But I can't write the film off yet, nor can I let myself get hung up on aethetics. Afterall, I would have never played the first Silent Hill if I thought about how grainy everything looked...

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^

I have no idea what you're talking about. It looks dark enough to me.

And the place is obviously that dark in midday. I think it looks great aesthetically.

The only potential problem is in the story pacing and writing.

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I think the pessimism is unwarranted.

This looks like a simple Euro-style horror film, which is what Silent Hill has been trying to emulate from the very start. We shoud be lucky we have a film that sticks so close to what SH is really about, rather than ballooning it into something it's not.

I've watched the fans inflate the mythology to massive proportions, but Silent Hill has always been a simple story about underequipped normal people facing their demons in a punishing nightmare town.

A straight telling of this type of story on the big screen will already make it the best videogame movie of all time.... The first legitimate adaptation of a videogame anyway.

But I warn you Silent Hill fandom: It will probably be a small film. I don't know if that can support the hype, especially with all the mythology fans have draped upon its simple frame.

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European? Silent Hill as a game was obviously based off of American horror movies and American style.

No way... I see far more influence from Lucio Fulci and other Italian horror filmmakers in Silent Hill. What American horror movies are you taking about?.... Friday the 13th? Evil Dead? Texas Chainsaw? There might be a little from each in there... but they're not the main influence.

Silent Hill uses the US as its location, some influences are certainly American (SH takes from all horror), but the style is mainly European horror. Now Resident Evil is certainly based on American horror styles.....

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