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ChrisTheWriter

Cartoon Network "Real"

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Batman: Brave and the Bold was something of a guilty pleasure for me. I admit I was skeptical of it at first, but it proved to be a fun cartoon, which is what matters.

I'll admit to not being the biggest Flapjack fan. I see the appeal, definitely, but something about the show doesn't click with me. Some might say it's because the show is too cynical, but I'm a professed fan of Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law and *Metalocalypse*, so cynicism's not really it. I am sad at the possibility of Chowder ending, though. Chowder's given me a fair share of laughs because of how silly it is. However, Chowder and Flapjack are both pretty good cartoons and actually play well off of each other. Flapjack's darker, more cynical humor and animation style with Chowder's brighter, zanier humor, and goofier character designs really create a very interesting one-two creative punch that provides something for just about any cartoon viewer between the two of them.

But I too miss the older cartoons like Courage, and *especially* Ed, Edd, n Eddy. I'm no small fan of the Eds, mostly because the layered humor. On the surface, (especially with Ed) that it's just another cartoon with squigglevision and a "random" sense of humor. But actually, the characterization was quite good in it, and Ed's non-sequitirs actually made contextual sense most of the time. Sure, it wasn't the most brilliant cartoon around, but if you actually sat down and thought about the comedic timing and use of sound effects, it became much funnier than its face value.

That long tirade being said, I'm extremely disappointed in Cartoon Network taking the easy path and making reality shows with kids in them. I understand they're competing with the Nickelodeon demographic, and the idea is the shows are low cost and might turn in some ratings, but after the genuinely negative reception of showing live action movies and Out of Jimmy's Head? You would've thought they'd learn their lesson. The network is about cartoons. Stick to that, and pick out the good ones, and use them. Really, if they want to compete, fund some better cartoons, get creative, or bring back the weekday Toonami block. They shouldn't be trying to follow the lead of the vapid live-action shows Nickelodeon plays, they should be playing their own strengths to win this fight. And I'm really surprised they haven't realized just how much pull they could potentially have if they just opened their eyes and used what was around them.

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And while I will say that Batman:TAS was a fantastic show, even the creators have commented on preferring the later episodes (which I personally find a little lame in all honesty) because they weren't as restricted with animation/art. I should know...I bought that $80 DVD set for X-mas last year and watched all those commentaries.

As an aside though, definitely worth the money.

I definitely prefer the pre-revamp of the series myself. The characters looked so much more realistic (i.e. human) than they did afterwords. That said, I still thoroughly enjoy the entire series as a whole. I also have the 18 DVD set of it. :D In fact, I like the entire DC Animated Series (Batman Beyond [just watched for the first time -- liked it a lot], Superman TAS, Justice League/Unlimited). I most appreciated the fact that they kept up continuity throughout the ten+ years.

After coming off of Batman TAS, I couldn't bring myself to watch anything else (Batman Brave & the Bold, etc.) I am definitely not a child of the Silver Age, so I can't enjoy characters like the Blue Beetle. To me, Kevin Conroy IS Batman, period. Aside from the old TV show, I don't think I could muster sitting through anything that returns Batman to the campy side of things. Anything of lesser quality than the original TAS I can't stand.

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I am definitely not a child of the Silver Age, so I can't enjoy characters like the Blue Beetle.

Hehe. The Blue Beetle on B&B isn't a Silver Age character. Hell, he isn't even one of the 90s characters like Kyle Rayner or Connor Hawke; Jaime Reyes's Blue Beetle is a character that was created about 4-5 years ago. He's one of the few 21st century DC heroes.

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I don't think I could muster sitting through anything that returns Batman to the campy side of things. Anything of lesser quality than the original TAS I can't stand.

Well that's pretty ignorant. One of the great things about Batman is his timelessness and different interpretations. I the love dark, grim, gritty side of things and The Dark Knight was amazing, but after all that, its refreshing to see a Batman who smiles while punching Zebra Man in the face while spouting one liners.

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And at the same time, B&B Batman isn't Adam West's Batman. He's still a serious guy; more often than not he's playing the straightman to everyone else around him.

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Guys, I'm not a DC Comics fan at all.

I liked Batman Beyond & Batman the Animated Series because they were great stand-alone. They did not lean on fanboyism to be "great," they simply were great.

Brave & the Bold is decent, but hardly anything to get excited about. And yes, it is absolutely written for kids. Most cartoons are... but when it's an ACTION cartoon written for kids, it comes off as cheesy.

Obviously since I am a fan of Flapjack & Chowder I am not adverse to childish stories & humor, but I don't like it much when it's, "Hey, you got your kiddie in my action! And you got your action in my kiddie! DO HO HO."

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So it ends with the Joker getting stabbed in the forehead with a batarang?

Bitchin'.

It was his eye, and that was in The Dark Knight Returns.

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I'm sorry NNY, I just don't see what you see in the show.

Winder Waker is in a whole other league of atmosphere and storytelling. They're not even the same medium.

I guess I'll shut up about it since I've said my piece already.

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I'm saying that they seem like they're for children on the surface, but actually tell amazing stories with great character progression.

The Brave and the Bold is very colorful and is a fun show. Remember that? Fun for fun's sake?

And its "peace," by the way.

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Im glad to see that there are people still talking about all this. Thank you all for your feedback and time to this thread, even since it's not directly related to OcRemix (though some correlation exists with the upcoming Otakon event).

A quick update, though FlapJack seemed to be in danger of cancellation, the creator came unto his DeviantArt page and said his cartoon is just fine and that Cartoon Network may be backing off it's suppossed name change, though it's still highly suspect.

Chowder is still up in the air unfortunately and Brave and the Bold may not see renewal, though a panel exists at the upcoming Comic-Con I believe. Stuard Snyder, the executive responsible for all this is said to be there as well.

By all means, continue spreading the word. The very reason why CN Execs are (SLIGHTLY) backing off their reality block is because of low ratings and internet-flames. But they need a way to rake in money since that Aqua Teen bomb-scare fiasco ($2 million+ down the drain and the resignation of the Cartoon Network Prez).

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191217360303&ref=mf

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But they need a way to rake in money since that Aqua Teen bomb-scare fiasco ($2 million+ down the drain and the resignation of the Cartoon Network Prez).

Ah yes, 1/31/07, we will never forget. To be fair, those things did look dangerous. I mean, it had a battery behind it, and wires! :shock:

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I recently noticed that Youtube has an official channel for cartoons and anime at their site, featuring nifty stuff like like Astro Boy, Slayers, and Dilbert. It is nice that the internet is starting to free us from schedules and TV networks. Granted, this means Youtube is going to be a mogul, but it is still much better than getting fixed to traditional television practices.

http://www.youtube.com/shows?s=sp&t=&b=2&cr=US&p=6

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its refreshing to see a Batman who smiles while punching Zebra Man in the face while spouting one liners.

So....Batman is more Spiderman? No thanks. I tried watching some of Batman B&B...Plastic Man (who had the same Joker incident with Batman?) and Dinosaur Island? Maybe I didn't give it enough try, but I couldn't get into it.

I fell out of watching CN awhile ago. If someone could hit me with something that's worth watching (I'm giving B:B&B another chance right now), that'd be awesome. Right now I pretty much just go to Boomerang.

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This is somewhat off topic, but I think this is one of my new favorite blogs to read. It's from John K. creator of Ren and Stimpy.

His blog highlights great things about animation, as well as what's wrong with current standards right now.

http://johnkstuff.blogspot.com

I still get the feeling he's got a little bit of a superiority complex, but I understand what he's talking about with regards to animation.

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And its "peace," by the way.

Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure which word the idiom referred to, and was not willing to look it up.

But honestly. Do you have to get snappy about it? I say something slightly negative about your favorite cartoon and you can't let it drop on a friendly note? I mean, if I weren't such an amenable person...

Look. Whatever you see in the show, I cannot see. No amount of arguing is going to make me like a show that I feel is not worth my time. Such is the way with television!

For instance, House is my favorite TV show, but a lot of people like Dexter better. Both shows have their high and low points, but the characters in Dexter do not engage me on a personal level... And try as I might, I cannot see in this show the level of praise that people seem to lavish upon it.

I wasn't a fan of the original Justice League cartoon or the 2000-something Superman cartoon, and Brave and the Bold has continued in their footsteps, in my eyes.

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Look. Whatever you see in the show, I cannot see. No amount of arguing is going to make me like a show that I feel is not worth my time. Such is the way with television!

For instance, House is my favorite TV show, but a lot of people like Dexter better. Both shows have their high and low points, but the characters in Dexter do not engage me on a personal level... And try as I might, I cannot see in this show the level of praise that people seem to lavish upon it.

I wasn't a fan of the original Justice League cartoon or the 2000-something Superman cartoon, and Brave and the Bold has continued in their footsteps, in my eyes.

No problem in my book, I feel the same way about Heroes. I've had people tell me I'm crazy for not liking it, and I'm a pretty good fan of comic books/super heroes.

I have yet to watch either the new Spiderman, Wolverine, or Batman cartoon right now. I honestly liked THE BATMAN, 'till they starting turning Bruce into a babysitter (bringing back Robin and Batgirl), which wasn't a choice I'd have made. The ORIGINAL intro to the show was pretty cool too.

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Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure which word the idiom referred to, and was not willing to look it up.

But honestly. Do you have to get snappy about it? I say something slightly negative about your favorite cartoon and you can't let it drop on a friendly note? I mean, if I weren't such an amenable person...

Look. Whatever you see in the show, I cannot see. No amount of arguing is going to make me like a show that I feel is not worth my time. Such is the way with television!

For instance, House is my favorite TV show, but a lot of people like Dexter better. Both shows have their high and low points, but the characters in Dexter do not engage me on a personal level... And try as I might, I cannot see in this show the level of praise that people seem to lavish upon it.

I wasn't a fan of the original Justice League cartoon or the 2000-something Superman cartoon, and Brave and the Bold has continued in their footsteps, in my eyes.

I guess I am getting a bit too defensive about it. I should stop...

....you didn't like Justice League!?!?

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Yeah, turns out CN Real actually did particularly well last week, hitting some double-digit raises. It's sad really. Though the cartoons of yesterday suffered from suckitude on a number of occassions, they were still a regular day-to-day. It's a very cheap blow to artists to be completely honest. But thanks to all who were interested in the thread.

Continue to spread the boycott if you are so inclined.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191217360303&ref=mf

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I haven't watched CN since forever ago either. I do remember when Toonami used to show stuff like Kenshin and DBZ though, and it was one of my first exposures to anime as a teenager. Back when anime wasn't a huge presence in our culture, it was an amazing move, and I never understood why they canceled it. I kind of agree though that some of the older cartoons just had better quality overall in terms of substance than the newer ones. I still love the old Batman animated series, Freakazoid is still hilarious, and Ren and Stimpy continues to be one of the most confusing but ultimately awesome shows for bizzare humor.

I don't really watch much in terms of cartoons anymore, but I feel like CN changing their style just to rake in some cash is kind of a stupid move. I saw the previews for the "real" shows, and all I could think was "Wow, they're trying to emulate old 90's Nickelodeon." It sounds to me like they've lost sight of the original idea of Cartoon Network, which was to provide a cool place for kids to get their cartoon fix while also getting exposed to the best of the older generations too. I guess I'm kind of glad I don't watch that channel anymore, because I liked it back when you could still catch really old stuff like Loony Toons, and some of Tex Avery's wacky stuff. It'll be a damn shame if CN turns into another Nickelodeon.

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