Proto Man/Gemini Man Jazz Arrangement

[Dream Weaver]

Hey everyone,

I arranged the Proto Man and Gemini Man themes for jazz small group and performed the tunes live at my college senior recital in Charlottesville, VA. Unfortunately, I didn't get the show cut, but I did have a small session afterwards so that I could get a copy of it. This version of it is a little different than it was at the show... I had to use a different drummer and he, not knowing exactly how we had played it before, makes it more rock-oriented where it was originally locked in with more of a latin feel. Anyway, check it out and let me know what you think... I'll post again later with a downloadable copy.

myspace.com/gwjazz

[Dream Weaver]

And as promised:

[Nabeel Ansari]

And as promised:

I don't like that sax in the intro... it may be real... but it has a certain displeasing quality to it... oh well. Also it's very long. :/

I don't feel like taking the time to listen to the whole thing, but it sounds pretty liberal.

[Dream Weaver]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the tone? The instrument choice? The scoops? The fact that it's solo?

[Meteo Xavier]

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the tone? The instrument choice? The scoops? The fact that it's solo?

Yeah, Neblix, if you're going to post anything at all, post something useful. Little blurbs like that are not only unhelpful, they are extremely annoying as it brings up hope for some real advice only to get them crushed by useless text.

I'm not a jazz freak, nor could I listen to the intro for some computer thing, so I skipped ahead and G.M. Chrysler this is some GREAT stuff.

I don't impress easily, so take that with some great consideration. The judges are tough but fair, and if the whole material is this good, I'm could guess they would let it slide in favor in legendary musician work.

My recommendation? Get this sum bitch some good mastering - improve the audio work and maybe find a good spot to fade out or cut it somehow and you could be a fucking LEGEND here.

I would recommend my friend Tweex for mastering - his prices are, IMO, extremely favorable for the quality you get. Search Tweex here or go to tweexmusic.com.

Its a worthy investment to really get killer material like this out there. Honest to my Lord and Savior Jesus, I am really impressed here.

[dannthr]

Hey Weaver, nice REmix.

I think this is definitely a work that's worth recording again. If you've just got the one mic, lay down each track separately--get your friends in one at a time and record them all individually. The value later on when you want to mix and place your instruments will be immeasurable.

It will also help sort out the busier sections nicely, which this arrangement definitely deserves.

Good luck,

[jabond23]

To be honest, i have no idea what's going on here with this tune. Its an awesome tune, but it just seems very all over the place. At least with that first part of the song. The rest does seem verrry liberal though. It kinda sounds like everything was definitely recorded with just one mic. That would be why the mastering side of the track is kinda lackluster.

Anyways, now that i'm done complaining. I do hear parts of the source here and there throughout the track. I think maybe the overall length is kinda pushing it. Maybe splitting it into 2 separate tracks would be a good idea. One for proto man and one for gemini man. The playing seems very good and everyone can keep up tremendously well. Again though, it just seems sporatic sometimes though with the different instruments all playing at once on just one track. Recording each part individually, or at least in pieces would really help make this track memorable.

I still think its a very good first version though, so keep it up and hopefully you'll get a mix on here soon!

[Nabeel Ansari]

Yeah, Neblix, if you're going to post anything at all, post something useful. Little blurbs like that are not only unhelpful, they are extremely annoying as it brings up hope for some real advice only to get them crushed by useless text.

I'm not a jazz freak, nor could I listen to the intro for some computer thing, so I skipped ahead and G.M. Chrysler this is some GREAT stuff.

I don't impress easily, so take that with some great consideration. The judges are tough but fair, and if the whole material is this good, I'm could guess they would let it slide in favor in legendary musician work.

My recommendation? Get this sum bitch some good mastering - improve the audio work and maybe find a good spot to fade out or cut it somehow and you could be a fucking LEGEND here.

I would recommend my friend Tweex for mastering - his prices are, IMO, extremely favorable for the quality you get. Search Tweex here or go to tweexmusic.com.

Its a worthy investment to really get killer material like this out there. Honest to my Lord and Savior Jesus, I am really impressed here.

The only time I have a problem with something liberal is the arrangement.

If you didn't get that from my first post, I'm sorry. I meant the arrangement is liberal (arrangement-wise)

[SuperiorX]

I liked the idea of this song quite a bit. I'm a BIG fan of jazz arrangements, so I was immediately excited when I read Protoman/Gemin Man jazz arrangement!

However, I'll echo some of the below comments... the first two minutes of the song sound very very busy. Some instruments are much to loud then they need to be, while others are hidden in the background. I don't believe this is any fault of the performance, but instead the recording. It does sound like this was recorded on just one mic (albeit a very poor one at that). The sound quality overall is poor and muffled, but from what I can hear the instrumentation and arrangement is stellar; I definitely enjoy it... especially when the Gemini Man section kicks in, everything really starts rocking. Jazz is supposed to be very liberal and free flowing, so I really enjoyed the solo sections and arrangement (although I really didn't even think it was that liberal of an interpretation in the first place, so I don't know what these other guys are complaining about).

The ending was a little weak, but I don't think it takes much away from the song as a whole...

Definitely get this thing mastered and/or re-recorded. Particularly try to get every instrument on it's own mic, so you can make mixing the channels a lot easier. If you can get a good quality recording of this I can't see why it wouldn't be posted here.

Really great job! I hope we'll hear a cleaned up version of this song soon, it REALLY deserves it!

[Xenon Odyssey]

everyone improvising at the beginning is neat, but at the same time, it doesn't seem to gel with the rest of the arrangement.

personally, i think the recording quality is fine, but i guess that's what happens when you listen to all that old time jazz that doesn't have the production value of today.

but yeah; either get this mastered, or re-record it for maximum awesomeage.

hah that guitar is being drowned by the bongos

the ending...it works, but i guess i was expecting something else. oh wellz.

[Gario]

This arrangement is very good (and not as liberal as people think - Protoman is the connecting thread throughout). The mix is terrible, though, since you cannot hear the soloing instruments as such.

Basically repeating what others have said - record on separate mics and master it well and you'll have a winner of a remix. Also, the room you recorded in was rather dry - either record in a room with better resonance or add some reverb to the track when mastering (not too much, though - the genre doesn't call for that much reverb, just a little).

Great work!

[Nabeel Ansari]

This arrangement is very good (and not as liberal as people think - Protoman is the connecting thread throughout). The mix is terrible, though, since you cannot hear the soloing instruments as such.

Basically repeating what others have said - record on separate mics and master it well and you'll have a winner of a remix. Also, the room you recorded in was rather dry - either record in a room with better resonance or add some reverb to the track when mastering (not too much, though - the genre doesn't call for that much reverb, just a little).

Great work!

I lol'd at contradiction xDDDDD

Gario did you mean this is terribly great work?

[Dream Weaver]

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far. I really appreciate the comments, and it's great to hear that you all are enjoying it so much.

Those who guessed that it was just recorded on one mic are right--it was done with a Zoom H2 recorder in a rehearsal space at the University of VIrginia. It was the end of the semester and we were fitting this in between exams and people going back to their respective homes, so we just did what we could. I would LOVE to get everyone back together again to rerecord this, and will definitely look into doing so... in the meantime, I think I'll do some more arrangements so I can get a number of things recorded in one session. Unfortunately, that may mean that actual good copies of this won't be released for a while, but I'll do my best to get everything done quickly.

I do want to explain some things behind the arrangements:

- First, this is a jazz arrangement, so yeah, there's a lot of "extra" stuff outside of the themes. I'm not going to post a music theory lesson here or anything, but for those that understand, the form of tune is pretty long and I (playing sax) didn't hold back as to how many choruses I took when soloing. If I remember correctly, I play two choruses and the guitar player does one (maybe two? I don't feel like listening at the moment... I'm actually writing this before going to sleep, heh), which makes it pretty long. Per people's suggestions, I'll cut it down when I rerecord it.

- In regards to Proto Man: My idea was to take the really clean, simple feel of the theme and turn it on its head, thus the collective improv approach and the raunchy sound. The theme is straight from a minor blues scale, and the soloing is developed with the blues in mind. It's supposed to highlight the theme, the feelings one may have when the theme is heard, and the ass-kicking that persists when Proto Man is on the spot, resolving to the kind of a lingering emotions that one may have when he's off the scene. Not that this will change anyone's opinion on whether or not s/he likes it, but maybe it will make more sense if you imagine those things while listening.

- I'll make sure the ending turns out better in the future, haha. It definitely isn't the greatest...

[Gario]

I lol'd at contradiction xDDDDD

Gario did you mean this is terribly great work?

Mix =/= arrangement. The 'mix' involves how all the levels are set up, how the reverb is arranged, how the EQ is, etc., while an arrangement is the musical composition of the piece.

It is terribly great work, though .

[Nabeel Ansari]

Mix =/= arrangement. The 'mix' involves how all the levels are set up, how the reverb is arranged, how the EQ is, etc., while an arrangement is the musical composition of the piece.

It is terribly great work, though .

I do believe that's called the "mastering".

[Rozovian]

I do believe that's called the "mastering".

Nope, mastering is the final track's stereo phase and volume esp. in regards to other tracks in the same group (e.g. an album or soundtrack).

With today's increasing amount of music software and musicians creating electronic music in their homes, post production is often done by the musicians themselves. The process typically involves equalization, audio level compression, multi-band audio compression, and limiting. This process somewhat overlaps but should not be mistaken for the term mastering, as post production is usually performed on a per-song basis, whereas mastering is aimed at preparing an entire list of songs for a specific media type.

Terms are muddy, but most effects and stuff counts as sound design or mixing. Even the stuff on the master output counts as part of the mixing stage - it's before the mixdown. Audio engineers laugh at ppl who misuse the term mastering. Just saying. I'm not an audio engineer. Yet anyway.

Sorry to not give your wip any comments, DW.

[progressive]

Couldn't listen to this with headphones, but what I heard was pretty good. I like the improvisation idea in the beginning, but it ended up sounding like an orchestra warming up with so many instruments competing at the same volume. Pushing some forward and others back would help tremendously, as I believe you are already planning to do.

As for the rest, I don't think the Gemini Man bass line rhythm can go for that long, honestly. IMO, it really doesn't matter how many cool free form solo runs you have if it's all being layered on top of four alternating double bass notes in the same rhythm. This gets pretty evident toward the end of the song. Consequently, I think the frenetic intro actually ended up being more interesting.

I do like it, though, overall, and rest assured, I listened to the whole thing before commenting.

[Rozovian]

You know my humanities teachers said I couldn't use Wiki for my homework... gave me a hella hard time.

neblix, you should stop posting irrelevant stuff. We don't care about your humanities teachers unless they have something to do with video games or music.

Anyway, the remix...

The Proto Man stuff is pretty cool, nice work stretching a short source. Gemini Man is no less cool. The recording quality is what it is, I'd say it could be passable, but only barely (and needing some processing), but there's a few rhythm messes. It all adds up to something that's worth recording again.

If you have more than one recording device or some way of mixing them together from multiple mics you should try that. Jazz recorded in multiple sessions probably won't have the same feel as a single session with everyone together. Besides, the sound bleeding and stuff should only make for a more realistic sound as opposed to studio productions.

If you can't do that, there's some processing you can do. I laid a transients processor, a multiband compressor, a stereo widener and an EQ on it, and got it to sound pretty good. If you give me the wav/aif I can bounce an mp3 with those effects on it. Those effects make the recording sound pretty good.

I'm gonna make a sample of it from your mp3. Uploading soon...

edit: The mixfixed sample, alternating original and mixfixed.

[Nubioso]

The first half is just too busy for me. Sounds all over the place, very muddy (and yes I realize a lot of this is mainly because it hasn't been properly mixed and mastered and whatnot) but I'm just not feeling it at all. The sound quality of the sax isn't very good in the beginning, and by that I'm specifically referring to the tone. Personally I think it should sound a little brighter.

The second half is better, when the pace picks up and it seems like everything is fitting together a little bit better, but then later on, when you do things like say...the guitar solo, you can barely hear it.

There is good musical skill here, I will tell you right now I can't play what you're playing, but at the same time, it still sounds very amateurish to me. As far as Meteor saying "You could be a LEGEND around here!" ehhh, I say that is quite that overstatement.

It needs serious production work, some instruments sound like some notes are just out of tune from time to time, and overall it just sounds too much like someone is using a field recorder in a garage and recording the whole thing.

So if there is anyway for you to go back, and re-record these tracks better instead of trying to take a left right mix out of an entire band, that'd be your best bet.

What Rozovian advised and showed you with his quick mix is definitely a good idea. Just a few little tweaks can make quite the difference. That was a pretty good thing to show him Rozo. Sounds much better.