arias Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Hi guys, I've spoken to Doufee and am waiting for a reply from LionTamer about this but Doufee has told me to post in General and gather a first response. I am from Snail Game, an online game company based in Suzhou of China. I am also the project lead for a browser MMORPG currently called Heroes of Gaia (http://www.heroesofgaia.com || name likely to change in a week) and I am looking for official game music for our browser game. Unlike most MMORPGs, it runs on flash so that means there's no client download and you can play the game anywhere (home, school, starbucks, etc). One issue we have is that the game has no music. There were some technical limitations earlier that didn't allow us to put it in but they have been resolved recently, and we are looking for game music. I then thought that it would be really cool to have OCRemix and other game music websites organize a competition of sorts to get music submissions that we could use for the game, because community music is awesome : ) I'm not sure if we should give money as prizes and how much should be given, but credit will definitely be given. Tell me what you guys think: Would you be interested in composing for such a soundtrack? WHAT IS HEROES OF GAIA? Heroes of Gaia (www.heroesofgaia.com) is a free-to-play fantasy game that has unparallaled graphics in the browser game market. It makes money off selling virtual items in-game, but is completely free-to-play. In China, where it is known as "Castle of Hero", it is now currently being played by more than 3 million players. Heroes of Gaia is currently being prepared for a synchronized open beta release with several partners on October 20. 30 Second TV Trailer (China): www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/heroes-of-gaia-browser-mmo/327043 Screenshots: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I have some already-made stuff that I'm not doing anything with at the moment. I don't like your idea of a competition though - its really not fun for so many people to put in all the time and effort it goes into making music for mass-audience (and its a lot, I'll tell you what, more than most of us have to work with to get it to that quality) and then wait weeks and months for a fraction of a chance to be featured, and even a MAYBE for any other kind of compensation thereafter, since you're not sure if you actually want to pay for our work yet or not. I understand the importance of getting high quality work for your title, but we've seen this all before, and the people who usually win these competitions win ALL the competitions. If I were going to suggest something, I'd suggest holding it as an open forum project like our many arrangement projects. You post the track list, first come first serve and maybe limit it to a couple tracks per person, and then post a deadline for tracks to be completed. That seems to work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Meteo brings up some good points about competition. Might work better as something not unlike our album projects. But am I interested? Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arias Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Alright, I'm going to need more opinions on board so I get a good idea of what you guys as a community think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillRock Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 well, i'm with the others, a project like our album projects sounds like a good idea to me, that way you can get the experience of many of the different members of the community on the project, not just one... Just one thing tho, and thats styles that people can do... it depends what you want to see for certain themes, for example, i'm good at upbeat synth driven music, others are better at rock and some at orchestral. If people take there pick, then that persons arrangement style might not suit the theme... Its not a big problem at all however. I'd post the tracklist and give us an idea for you want for each theme so mixers may pick a track thats better for their prefered style. That is if you go down the different person per track route. Btw i'm interested as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Quick question - are you going to provide music mastering services? That would definitely be a big plus and a great help for your endeavor here. If not, I can recommend someone who prices very well for good quality and balanced sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt E. Waldman Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Oh yeah, I would definitely love to participate in this, and I agree with everyone else that it probably shouldn't be a competition. So, yeah, I'm definitely interested! So keep us posted. My style is mostly ambient/orchestral but I do experiment in other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arias Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Ambient/orchestral sounds like the kind we need, keep them comments coming guys so I can get a good feel. Sounds like a competition is a no-no. Not likely to master music because we want them compressed to minimize bandwidth burden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Not likely to master music because we want them compressed to minimize bandwidth burden. Umm.... mastering music is an issue of quality, not size. A mastered MP3 version of a song is roughly the same size as an unmastered MP3 version of the same song, with much better sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Burns Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Umm.... mastering music is an issue of quality, not size. A mastered MP3 version of a song is roughly the same size as an unmastered MP3 version of the same song, with much better sound quality. By no mastering he means no CD mastering and also no 44.1k 16 bit files. (The definition of mastering is in transition these days.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 arias, I think a competition is a good idea, but because you will need more than one or two songs, maybe have a competition for the main theme of the game, or something like that. For the rest of the music for the game, you could work something out with our site founder (forum name djpretzel) to see if we can do something officially for you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeTaKa Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 You would want as much high quality audio as you can get for a project like this. Having an open track list could lead to coherent imbalance and a range of quality and style. A competition would get you the best of what you want where you need it. An arranged site project sounds like a good idea and would provide the fastest and best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 You would want as much high quality audio as you can get for a project like this. Having an open track list could lead to coherent imbalance and a range of quality and style. A competition would get you the best of what you want where you need it. An arranged site project sounds like a good idea and would provide the fastest and best results. Any time you have a project with a large number of very different, very self-propelled artists working on something of this level, you're going to get imbalance and quality and style issues - why complicate it further with a damn competition? I have nothing against competitions when thats the name of the game, but if it doesn't have to be a competition, it really shouldn't be. Who's going to spend the dozen of hours and possible $ it takes to get a good quality track that has a 90%+ chance of being ignored and useless for something that has doesn't even have a prize? And thats IF our big name remixers choose to stay out of it. If not, well, lets be honest, the competition is over before it begins then. I just don't see any reason we have to get up a lot of peoples' hopes and waste their time if the only prize is to get your track featured in an obscure browser game that few will even hear about. Its a pretentious idea. If you want to offer up some $$$ and some cool gear to the winner, than you got something - otherwise an obscure browser game is really not that much of a prize in all honesty. EDIT: My tone is meant to be logical, not angsty. Like I say, I have nothing against competitions, I just don't think its the best idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Meteo, it seems like you're only thinking from your perspective, NOT the perspective of the creators of the game, who obviously want high-quality music. The best music that we can put forward should get used; we shouldn't somehow handicap ourselves. Imagine if, for SF HD ReMix, we just let anyone submit their music with few guidelines. That would have resulted in a far worse final product. So people like me, tefnek and bLiNd enter the competition. So what? It just means the final music is going to be awesome. Also, your tone IS a little angsty considering in the Nokia competition, we had a newcomer place in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I like the idea of there being a competition for the main theme, or even for several key themes in the game, but a critical project director could keep things both cohesive and at a high quality. Unless arias wants a dozen main theme candidates and nothing else a competition would work great, but since any game would need more than that I suggest the project approach. Doing it as a project benefits both us remixers and the developers. Also, it is frustrating for the remixer to put hours into a mix that won't be used. Educating in more ways than one, yeah, but easily disheartening. Would be great if someone could have told you earlier in the process that it's the wrong style or too bipolar or not dynamic enough or for any reason doesn't work and isn't easily salvaged for the soundtrack. A competition doesn't typically do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I think it largely depends on what the original poster needs. Presumably there is absolutely no music in this game and it's up to the game's producer to tell the composer what music he wants. You have a problem right there if you go with a project - everyone's going to kind of do their own thing unless you coordinate very tightly. The upside, however, is that he'll probably be able to get a large number of tracks that can be incorporated into the game. Alternatively, if he holds a competition, he may have the competitors submit their ideas for a "main theme" and a few other themes (ex: map music, town music, whatever), choose the winner, and then go project-style and get the project participants to remix the winner's songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Also, your tone IS a little angsty considering in the Nokia competition, we had a newcomer place in the top 3. News to me; I hadn't been following up on that. Meteo, it seems like you're only thinking from your perspective, NOT the perspective of the creators of the game, who obviously want high-quality music. The best music that we can put forward should get used; we shouldn't somehow handicap ourselves. Imagine if, for SF HD ReMix, we just let anyone submit their music with few guidelines. That would have resulted in a far worse final product. So people like me, tefnek and bLiNd enter the competition. So what? It just means the final music is going to be awesome. I want to be careful how I want to answer this. I'm really not trying to turn this topic into an argument over music competitions or dump on the Topic Creator, I just can't agree that a competition is necessary in this case. Unless I misinterpreted just how big of a project this game really is (and I wouldn't put it past us), this isn't SF HD Remix. If you want a high quality soundtrack that is awesome and balanced, you find ONE, at most TWO, high quality composers and PAY them to work for you. A competition does not work without a prize. The prize is NOT the job itself unless you get something out of it - and there are plenty of more streamlined ways to do work for java games and other fan-based projects along these lines. That's my whole issue. It just seems extraneous and unnecessary for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeTaKa Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I do agree that the music should be handled by a minimum amount of people though. I must be one of the few people that didn't really enjoy SF2HDRemix or the music that much. I have no interest in this project so I'm indifferent to the result, just because it's a game doesn't mean I immediately want to thrust my music into it. Lets be honest the "big" remixers will get involved and really the topic creator should have thought about what he wanted clearly first instead of "free community music". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Cynical much, fellas? Cool screenshots, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arias Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 So much cynicism, OCR hasn't changed much. I do agree that the music should be handled by a minimum amount of people though. I must be one of the few people that didn't really enjoy SF2HDRemix or the music that much. I have no interest in this project so I'm indifferent to the result, just because it's a game doesn't mean I immediately want to thrust my music into it. Lets be honest the "big" remixers will get involved and really the topic creator should have thought about what he wanted clearly first instead of "free community music". I created this topic to knock brains with what this community thinks should be the best way I should approach this issue. I just thought it's another cool case where people can create music for a game that they or their friends could play. It's always cool to have your music on for an official project. As for "free", I must say cost isn't that big of a concern. I work in China where a staff typically gets paid 400US dollars a month, and that includes professional composers freely available on the market. I'm focusing on the community factor, not the cost factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arias Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 arias, I think a competition is a good idea, but because you will need more than one or two songs, maybe have a competition for the main theme of the game, or something like that. For the rest of the music for the game, you could work something out with our site founder (forum name djpretzel) to see if we can do something officially for you guys. Competition for main theme only is a good idea. If you've noticed I'm actually a long-time registrant. I've actually used OCR since wayyyy back then and still remember stuff like Jeremy Soule's composition getting uploaded and Proticity getting kicked out of the judge panel (Where is that guy now? Loved his DKC remixes). I know DJP is the owner, but he hasn't responded to my e-mail or PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 One thing you'll want to discuss with the artists as well is issue of ownership and intellectual property - who owns the tracks at the end of the day? Can the artist withhold his track from the game in the future, or does it become the property of the game's developer? etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Competition for main theme only is a good idea. I actually agree with this. That's a fair compromise and seems to work all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roughnet13888 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hi guys,I've spoken to Doufee and am waiting for a reply from LionTamer about this but Doufee has told me to post in General and gather a first response. I am from Snail Game, an online game company based in Suzhou of China. I am also the project lead for a browser MMORPG currently called Heroes of Gaia (http://www.heroesofgaia.com || name likely to change in a week) and I am looking for official game music for our browser game. Unlike most MMORPGs, it runs on flash so that means there's no client download and you can play the game anywhere (home, school, starbucks, etc). One issue we have is that the game has no music. There were some technical limitations earlier that didn't allow us to put it in but they have been resolved recently, and we are looking for game music. I then thought that it would be really cool to have OCRemix and other game music websites organize a competition of sorts to get music submissions that we could use for the game, because community music is awesome : ) I'm not sure if we should give money as prizes and how much should be given, but credit will definitely be given. Tell me what you guys think: Would you be interested in composing for such a soundtrack? WHAT IS HEROES OF GAIA? Heroes of Gaia (www.heroesofgaia.com) is a free-to-play fantasy game that has unparallaled graphics in the browser game market. It makes money off selling virtual items in-game, but is completely free-to-play. Simple interest calculator calculation rates mortgage compound high interest savings account In China, where it is known as "Castle of Hero", it is now currently being played by more than 3 million players. Heroes of Gaia is currently being prepared for a synchronized open beta release with several partners on October 20. 30 Second TV Trailer (China): www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/heroes-of-gaia-browser-mmo/327043 Screenshots: Screenshots are not appearing, Check them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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