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zircon

Anyone have any recommendations for hip-hop?

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Vagrance & Palp: I gotcha. Also, I don't want to come across as a sellout or anything. I know it sounds kinda cold to be writing strictly for the money, but I actually really enjoy making beats, even if I'm just essentially selling them, and like Ronald Jenkees says, music is fun :P Although the benefit of what I'm doing is that I'm planning on licensing these not selling the rights, so in theory someone could end up using them for an actual track.

This is the new beat I'm working on:

http://www.zirconstudios.com/music/wips/HH%20Track%202.mp3

Trying to get it a little closer to Top 100 kind of stuff.

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Vagrance & Palp: I gotcha. Also, I don't want to come across as a sellout or anything.

Lol, not at all, I only felt it was worth mentioning that a lot of what I talked about doesn't matter when showing someone who isn't into the scene.

As for the second clip, not bad at all, and closer than the first one (though I haven't listened to the updated version). You may want to give a bit more love to the kick and subs (you might be - I don't have a sub atm) and possibly even slowing it down a little bit might give it a bit more swagger. For some reason the drums just sound off to me, not-so-much from a technical standpoint but rather a stylistic one but it could just be me.

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Vagrance & Palp: I gotcha. Also, I don't want to come across as a sellout or anything. I know it sounds kinda cold to be writing strictly for the money, but I actually really enjoy making beats, even if I'm just essentially selling them, and like Ronald Jenkees says, music is fun :P Although the benefit of what I'm doing is that I'm planning on licensing these not selling the rights, so in theory someone could end up using them for an actual track.

Heh, re-reading my own response, I sort of look the sellout trying to tell you to write like what's in the charts. There was a big gap that no one was mentioning, and I like a lot of the popular stuff as well as more indie stuff, I'm not just telling you to be canny. :razz: There's no shame in making money off stuff you like to do.

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Vagrance: Yeah, I'm not 100% on the drums either... here's a revised version.

http://www.zirconstudios.com/music/wips/HH%20Track%202.mp3

Palp: I gotcha!

Feeling it so far. I like how it's not 100% repetitious. Has a fusion between the South-style Hiphop FX and 50's gangsta style. Almost sounds like Malcos' and G-Unit had a collab or something.

We gotta collab one day.

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Vagrance: Yeah, I'm not 100% on the drums either... here's a revised version.

http://www.zirconstudios.com/music/wips/HH%20Track%202.mp3

Palp: I gotcha!

I think it's definitely closer. My suggestion would be to make those low strings a little punchier. The bass doesn't sound bad, but it does sound a little dead in my opinion. The triangle you bring in at :40 really helps out the drums, prior to that point the drums didn't seem to have that same quality.

Keep it up, man.

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I remember when threads like this would have been bombed with hate. I <3 progress.

Tracks sounding cool so far too, Andy.

-DCT

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:(

I think I'm way out of touch with Hip-Hop 'cause mine sounds nothing like any of this stuff these kids these days are doin'...

zircon, I'ma eMail you some stuff and ideas...

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holy SHIT, i've been trying to find the name of that track for years. someone showed me deltron 3030's stuff a while back and i haven't been able to find the name again.

AWESOME!

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holy SHIT, i've been trying to find the name of that track for years. someone showed me deltron 3030's stuff a while back and i haven't been able to find the name again.

AWESOME!

Definitely, and if you like that then Dr. Octagon is worth a gander as well, its at least equal to Deltron 3030.

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holy SHIT, i've been trying to find the name of that track for years. someone showed me deltron 3030's stuff a while back and i haven't been able to find the name again.

AWESOME!

Glad to have inadvertently been of service.

The entire Deltron 3030 album is brilliant. I'm not a huge hip hop enthusiast but I'm pretty sure most hip hop is nowhere near as sophisticated. The "title" (3030) track is actually my favorite but it's pretty long and I didn't think it was what zircon was looking for. But it's great anyway! EDIT: Oh, Rama posted it. Well then! Listen to that.

I do not know this Dr. Octagon, but gander I will. Until then, I've consulted my friend, the noble Sir Wikipedia, who informs me that Dr. Octagonecologyst is the big awesome debut album, and that there is also an instrumental version of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumentalyst_%28Octagon_Beats%29

So maybe that would be a good thing to check into as well, hm? I will, when I get more than an hour or so of legitimate free time.

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good shit zircon...i'm guessing you're going for a sort of timbaland/dr. dre sound. my main criticism would be that it's too clean/intricate. in general a beat doesn't need to have "changeups" (i.e. fills every 4 bars etc.) because the music should really just be a vehicle for the emcee. don't be afraid to get really simplistic and grimy with it i guess.

as far as hip hop recommendations this thread needs more wonky, i'll just throw these out there

Lone - Sea Spray

Dorian Concept - Fort Teen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZA5xsNicE

Flying Lotus - Disco Balls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ij95YmGpOw

Hudson Mohawke - ZOo00OOm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZIMVpLLwno

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i wouldn't mind more dirt on the bass track. like, just layer some noisy shit on there to dirt it up.

this feels really more like funk than hip-hop to me, personally. the rhodes does it in.

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How does one consciously decide to transition from electronica to hip hop without first understanding it from an emotional standpoint? We can break down J-Dilla and whoever on a technical level all we want, but I think we'll still miss what really makes a beat undeniably hip hop.

Until you feel what Mos Def is saying in Respiration about hearing "the bass ride out like an ancient mating call...I can feel the city breathing, chest heaving, against the flesh of the evening, sigh before I die", you won't really 'get' hip hop. Hip hop will forever remain urban music; the music of the streets. To not understand this and go ahead trying to piece together a hip hop beat is folly.

Your first track does actually sound like a hip hop beat. I can't say the same about the other two. I would say the first one comes closer largely due to the jazz elements and a beefier drum loop. It's a good start considering your previous influences, but to be honest you'll really have to eat, sleep, and LIVE hip hop before you can start making it.

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That may very well be true, but more specific advice would definitely be appreciated. It's funny that you say the first one sounds better than the other two, whereas most people here seemed to like the second two better. To me, any kind of music can be broken down into theory and analyzed. Hip hop to me is a form of music with relatively simple rhythms (which I can do easily), a certain kind of jazz/movie score-influenced tonality (which is tricky) and well-crafted rhythmic timbres (this is a challenge, but doable.)

Keep in mind I'm NOT talking about the rap portion of hip-hop... just the instrumental part. If I'm missing something, I'd like to know what it is, so I can improve.

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"HH Track 3" would make a really nice downtempo track.. slap some reverby female vocals on it and it would be MONEY. doesn't feel that much like hip hop though

it's hard to explain what would make your tracks more hip hop. the only thing i can really say in general is that hip hop has to MAKE YOU WANNA NOD YOUR HEAD... unless we're talking about the more dancy commercial hip hop of the last decade. the bass, kick, snares and hats have to hit in a way that induces head movement

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Well again keep in mind this probably is supposed to be dancy commercial hip hop (but I don't really know for sure.) When I listen to the beats I'm making here, I'm hearing the same kind of rhythms you guys are linking me to. Normally rhythmic stuff is my strong point, so if I'm not hitting that goal for other people... I gotta know what to do. Believe me, I appreciate all the advice so far though.

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Well again keep in mind this probably is supposed to be dancy commercial hip hop (but I don't really know for sure.) When I listen to the beats I'm making here, I'm hearing the same kind of rhythms you guys are linking me to. Normally rhythmic stuff is my strong point, so if I'm not hitting that goal for other people... I gotta know what to do. Believe me, I appreciate all the advice so far though.

You're thinking way too much about this, just go back to making whatever you normally make but start listening to rap music, you can't nail the vibe unless its authentic. Just because a song has guitars in it doesn't mean its a rock song; you can't define music by "triplet rhythms, heavy use of sampling, etc." (try as Pandora might), you have to get the feel down.

I also recommend watching the documentaries Scratch, Freestyle, and The Freshest Kids if you want a quick primer on the hip-hop music culture. Its not an end-all but it should give you a feel for hip-hop culture which is ideally what you'll want to give voice to in your tracks, or at least make a commercially friendly shiny product that gives the impression of it.

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http://www.zirconstudios.com/music/wips/HH%20Track%204.mp3

This one is more directly influenced by guys like David Banner, 50 Cent. More of that nasty club stuff. Close?

Heh, not bad! Definitely got the right instruments and mood. I'd say the kick needs to take up more space and be more upfront, more distortion in the high end maybe. Might be too much reverb on the drums, that style of beat is often dry as hell. Snaps were a nice touch. :nicework: Are you swinging the beat? Funny to say this, but it sounds not rigid enough to me though I can't tell if that's from a swing, the reverb, or the little fills you have.

I think it's a romantic notion to live, breathe, etc. hip-hop, in order to produce it. The more you listen to and like it, the more you'll know how to make it, simple as that. There's a lot of hip-hop influence in big beat, modern pop, and other hybrid genres. I'd guess zircon has already been exposed to a lot of that.

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http://www.zirconstudios.com/music/wips/HH%20Track%204.mp3

This one is more directly influenced by guys like David Banner, 50 Cent. More of that nasty club stuff. Close?

haha nice, very neptunes even.

the tracks i linked earlier were fairly underground. you might find these more mainstream examples helpful:

LMFAO - Shots

Jason Derulo - Whatcha Say

Young Money - Every Girl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6UwW3nkok

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