Final Fantasy XIII

[OceansAndrew]

People don't seem to get that it's entirely Nomura's call. And Nomura is a Sony fanboy.

I have no comment on whether or not the games go multi-platform, but this statement is beyond ridiculous. Nomura isn't the president of the company, nor is he the majority shareholder. It is most certainly not "entirely his call".

More educated speculation would be along the lines that the SE accounting team will run the numbers and see if a port of the games would bring in a profit. Depending on how FF13 sold for the 360, that may or may not happen.

[prophetik music]

ff13 did well - not anywhere near as well as it did for the ps3 - on the 360. i think they'll take the plunge.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well I don't know about Europe or April and May sales other than overall the game has sold 5.5 million thus far, but at least in March, the 360 version in NA sold upwards of 500k copies.

Also, Tetsuya Nomura isn't Shigeru Miyamoto. Hell, he isn't even Hideo Kojima, and Konami went above him and put Metal Gear on the 360. He doesn't carry the kind of clout that would part seas.

[Schwaltzvald]

Tetsuya Nomura isn't Shigeru Miyamoto. Hell, he isn't even Hideo Kojima, and Konami went above him and put Metal Gear on the 360. He doesn't carry the kind of clout that would part seas.

Remind me again which Metal Gear reached the 360, I'm not trying to be funny I'm absolutely serious.

Also as a recap or rehash rather of what is known for the moment~

Final Fantasy Versus XIII is, according to its developers, a wholly independent story unfolding with different characters and a different visual design. Although it is set within the same Final Fantasy XIII universe, it is unrelated to any other entry within the compilation and is thus neither a sequel nor a prequel to any other entries in Fabula Nova Crystallis: Final Fantasy XIII

There is scarcely any information surrounding the gameplay and battle system of Final Fantasy Versus XIII

Within recent interviews in Japanese video game magazines, director Tetsuya Nomura has stated that Versus XIII's gameplay will be a realistic derivation of Kingdom Hearts's battle system with some elements of a third-person shooter aspect. Nomura has also stated that the game will depart from the light and magical aesthetic of his previous directorial games (i.e. Kingdom Hearts) and opt for a darker, bleaker world that is intended to counter previous Final Fantasy installments. According to Nomura, the world of Final Fantasy Versus XIII is based on the modern Shinjuku district. In formulating a realistic world, Nomura has stated that he wants the characters to be "believable" and thus realistic. As a testament towards his desire for realism, in the PlayStation Premier trailer, in contrast to previous Final Fantasy titles, Versus XIII had a greater display of graphic violence with an instance of blood.

Nomura has also stated in Dengeki PlayStation that he aims to create previously unseen "tricky" battle sequences, reminiscent of the CGI film, Final Fantasy VII Advent Children. He has also stated that the development team have been implementing a traversable world map, used in the main Final Fantasy series up until its removal in Final Fantasy X. Nomura later commented, in an interview conducted via Twitter, that players will be able to control an airship around the world map.

On March 17, 2010, producer Shinji Hashimoto published a small Q&A with director Tetsuya Nomura asking questions sent in by fans on the Japanese Square-Enix Twitter page. Nomura confirmed that a world map was in Versus XIII and that the development team had recently gotten the airship working on it. The inclusion of the world map leads many to believe that Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be less linear than Final Fantasy XIII.

[Arcana]

Well I don't know about Europe or April and May sales other than overall the game has sold 5.5 million thus far, but at least in March, the 360 version in NA sold upwards of 500k copies.

I was curious about this so I looked this up and found:

http://kotaku.com/5518301/final-fantasy-xiii-ps3-nearly-doubles-xbox-360-version-in-us-sales

Thus for April, in the USA:

PS3: 828,200

XBox360: 494,300

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Remind me again which Metal Gear reached the 360, I'm not trying to be funny I'm absolutely serious.

Metal Gear Rising, which regardless of who helms it is still a game in the Metal Gear franchise that is heading to the 360. In other words, Konami went above Kojima and put the franchise on another system.

Quit playing the fool.

Anyway, why are you so against the thought of a game going multi-platform anyway? It's not like back in the mid-90's when anyone with only a Nintendo system was shit out of luck if they wanted the next Final Fantasy or Street Fighter for the N64. You still get to play the game.

You can't be that juvenile, can you Schwaltzvald?

[Thin Crust]

Apparently Nomura was also against FF13 itself going multiplatform, and it still happened. He's not the only one calling the shots at Square-Enix. If there's enough money in a 360 port it could very well happen.

Also, calling a game designer a "fanboy"? Seriously?

Nomura wasn't the director of FFXIII. So "DUH" he couldn't stop it from going multiplatform. But he is the director of FFvXIII so it is his call. The only thing he did on FFXIII was character design.

Metal Gear Rising, which regardless of who helms it is still a game in the Metal Gear franchise that is heading to the 360. In other words, Konami went above Kojima and put the franchise on another system.

Quit playing the fool.

Kojima has pretty much no part in MGS Rising. He's been busy with Peace Walker. Therefore, it isn't his decision for Rising's platform either.

[Arcana]

Anyway, why are you so against the thought of a game going multi-platform anyway? It's not like back in the mid-90's when anyone with only a Nintendo system was shit out of luck if they wanted the next Final Fantasy or Street Fighter for the N64. You still get to play the game.

I can actually understand why a particular director or developer would be against a game going multiplatform, mostly due to implementation issues. If you as a director have a vision, then going cross-platform risks compromising the vision (through making various graphic and control sacrifices). You need to consider dumbing down your game to meet the lowest common denominator.

However, the XBox 360 and the PS3, from an end-user standpoint, have analog features across the systems. XBox 360 has memory cards and hard drives, PS3 has hard drives. XBox 360 has soft squishy buttons on its controller, PS3 has soft squishy buttons on its controller. PS3 has full HD, XBox 360 doesn't quite have full HD but it's close enough for 66% of people not to notice a difference.

About the only appreciable difference now is that the XBox 360 requires disc switching compared to the PS3. And, XBox Live! is much more mature than PS Home, but I don't see online connectivity affecting a single player RPG much.

There's very little reason nowadays not to release cross platform, unless your game uses some niche feature of a system, or if there's some kind of political reason (ex: exclusivity deals).

[OceansAndrew]

Nomura wasn't the director of FFXIII. So "DUH" he couldn't stop it from going multiplatform. But he is the director of FFvXIII so it is his call. The only thing he did on FFXIII was character design.

The clout you are attributing to the director title is way off base. Even someone in a director position can't just "take their ball and go home" if they:

A: Prefer a specific console so much as to exclude everything else.

B: Are told by the corporate heads to make something multi-platform if it's estimated that a port to an additional system would bring an increase in profits.

Being a director doesn't make them able to make any personal decision they want in regards to distribution, marketing, or (depending on how the internal company structure is organized) potentially even the individual team members. They are tasked with creating a product that will sell, and while directors do have a good deal of autonomy, they don't have the final say on everything.

[prophetik music]

as a member of a development studio for the 360, i have to refute the claim that the xbox doesn't have full HD. it does - and it actually is easier to implement than on the ps3 thanks to the ridiculously complex architecture the ps3 utilizes. the reason that most developers don't use it, though, is because the artwork and film is too costly - from a size perspective - to really work without the blu-ray disc.

if you don't believe me, look at some of the new games that have just come out, like Red Dead Redemption. graphics are far better on the 360 version, but the game was lead developed on the PC (if i'm not mistaken).

ffxiii could have been just as good from a visual quality. they chose not to, because it'd have taken six discs

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Hey Prophet, did you know that there were about 3 gigs free on each disc for the 360 version? Is there any reason that a dev might do something like that in a multi-disc game? Or was it just shoddy porting?

[Schwaltzvald]

Metal Gear Rising, which regardless of who helms it is still a game in the Metal Gear franchise that is heading to the 360. In other words, Konami went above Kojima and put the franchise on another system.

Quit playing the fool.

Anyway, why are you so against the thought of a game going multi-platform anyway? It's not like back in the mid-90's when anyone with only a Nintendo system was shit out of luck if they wanted the next Final Fantasy or Street Fighter for the N64. You still get to play the game.

You can't be that juvenile, can you Schwaltzvald?

Oh you ~<3

I'm not totally against it going multi-platform, in fact it would do some good for all really. I just don't care for M$ vision and approach to their console; that and I just don't condone spreading word on products I'm looking forward to without definitive proof of it. Especially on whatever the news may be.

As for the past, I've had access to all systems so I've not truly experienced that gripe about certain titles not going multi-plat, games never reaching US soil sure but that's about it. Even today while I may never bother purchasing the 360 I do have a friend to mooch off for certain titles.

[Thin Crust]

Hey Prophet, did you know that there were about 3 gigs free on each disc for the 360 version? Is there any reason that a dev might do something like that in a multi-disc game? Or was it just shoddy porting?

I'm not a developer, but it wasn't a bad port. They pushed the release date back over a year to get the 360 version right.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I'm not a developer.

Incidentally also the reason I was asking prophet.

[prophetik music]

Hey Prophet, did you know that there were about 3 gigs free on each disc for the 360 version? Is there any reason that a dev might do something like that in a multi-disc game? Or was it just shoddy porting?

not 3 gigs on each disc - three gigs total. the three discs, according to a quick google search, were 5.9, 5.8, and 6.6 gigs each. considering the largest standard size i've ever seen is 7.29 gigs (all wave-4 games are that exact size, 764 million and some change bytes), and the NXE dashboard stuff is about .20 of that, you're looking at around 3gb total 'extra' space.

i'm fairly certain that the gap is a result of them spreading it around equally between each disc.

also, i'm a 360 fanboy, but even i can't justify the terrible screen tearing in the uninstalled 360 version, particularly when that stuff was just streamed off the disc. really ridiculous.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

not 3 gigs on each disc - three gigs total. the three discs, according to a quick google search, were 5.9, 5.8, and 6.6 gigs each. considering the largest standard size i've ever seen is 7.29 gigs (all wave-4 games are that exact size, 764 million and some change bytes), and the NXE dashboard stuff is about .20 of that, you're looking at around 3gb total 'extra' space.

i'm fairly certain that the gap is a result of them spreading it around equally between each disc.

also, i'm a 360 fanboy, but even i can't justify the terrible screen tearing in the uninstalled 360 version, particularly when that stuff was just streamed off the disc. really ridiculous.

That's what I thought at first, but then I remembered that certain scenes looked pretty god awful compared to some others, so I dunno. I also thought the limit on a current DVD was 9 gigs or so, so that clears that up.

Either way, it was a pretty shoddy A/V compression job, and I certainly wouldn't have minded the game shipping with one extra disc, although I'm sure SE would have, given that it would have increased costs for them.

[Mirby]

If I remember correctly, Nomura once said the base engine for Versus XIII was roughly based off of the KH engine, or at least the gameplay was, so I'm thinking if VsXIII goes multiplatform, mayhaps KH3 will too.

Regardless, this is fascinating information, prophet. Thanks for sharing; I never knew all this!

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well SE had originally stated that they wanted to use their Crystal Tools engine for all their current(HD) generation games, which would also include Versus. Also, being that the toolset was built to be a multiplatform set, it isn't unreasonable to think that Versus could be brought to the 360(and PC, damnit!) with relative ease. Funny though that in a statement, the director of FFXIII thought that it was a "mistake" to create the engine. This kind of statement wouldn't surprise me at all however, seeing as most of the time spent on FFXIII was probably spent on finishing the engine.

You are right however that Nomura mentioned that there'd be sort of an action style reminiscent of Kingdom Hearts a few years back, so we'll have to see how that works out.

Either way, I'm sure we'll much more about Versus XIII and XIV at this years E3 now that FFXIII is out of the way.

[Schwaltzvald]

You are right however that Nomura mentioned that there'd be sort of an action style reminiscent of Kingdom Hearts a few years back, so we'll have to see how that works out.

I've already mentioned that a page back; perhaps you were too busy fanboying to notice?

Versus XIII's gameplay will be a realistic derivation of Kingdom Hearts's battle system with some elements of a third-person shooter aspect.

Nomura has also stated in Dengeki PlayStation that he aims to create previously unseen "tricky" battle sequences, reminiscent of the CGI film, Final Fantasy VII Advent Children.

I'll let ya know how it turns out if what I think will happen does happen

[prophetik music]

That's what I thought at first, but then I remembered that certain scenes looked pretty god awful compared to some others, so I dunno. I also thought the limit on a current DVD was 9 gigs or so, so that clears that up.

Either way, it was a pretty shoddy A/V compression job, and I certainly wouldn't have minded the game shipping with one extra disc, although I'm sure SE would have, given that it would have increased costs for them.

doesn't really increase costs that much. Lost Odyssey got a LOT of negative press about the 4-disc requirement, and by only shipping on three discs they technically are small enough for someone with a 20gb hard drive to install all three (you can't, because there's only around 13gb useable on the 20gb hard drives, but the numbers look good for dumb people). four discs - particularly since that'd mean that the videos were compressed less - pushes you to an install size nearing 24gb, which physically restricts you to the bastard 60gb systems and elites.

DVD9 can technically hold 8.4gb, but the read speed lowers once you get farther and farther out along the edge. simple math, that - think of a bike wheel. the disc would have to spin faster in order to read the edges of the disc. most games stripe useless stuff out there, like the NXE install info and really long (and, in turn, buffered) cutscenes. those generally are the cutscenes that looked worse than others.

crystal tools was made to be multiplatform for the specific purpose of bringing all of the FF games made on this generation of consoles to each system if they so chose. the engine is the reason that we didn't see FFXIII in early 2008, to be honest. i'm surprised anyone still thinks that any of these games WON'T be multiplatform. it's not like sony's paying them to keep it console-specific, like what MS is doing with Mass Effect.

[Tinus]

by only shipping on three discs they technically are small enough for someone with a 20gb hard drive to install all three (you can't, because there's only around 13gb useable on the 20gb hard drives, but the numbers look good for dumb people). four discs - particularly since that'd mean that the videos were compressed less - pushes you to an install size nearing 24gb, which physically restricts you to the bastard 60gb systems and elites.

Why would anyone want install all of the discs anyway? Like with the old multidisc Final Fantasies, you progress through them linearly. Whenever I had to swap discs I'd just uninstall the last one and install the next one. This isn't Mass Effect 2 or Baldur's Gate 2 where you have to swap discs constantly.

[prophetik music]

swap discs constantly? i guess you never played mass effect 2. you use one disc for ten hours, put in another one for 20 hours, and then put the first one back in for the last five or six hours (and all the cutscenes that come with it).

i generally install all discs of whatever game i'm playing. i'm sure i'm not the only one.

[Fishy]

I was discussing this game with my friend who is convinced that FFXIII is the best FF game. I am now convinced it is one of the least enjoyable ones but before fanboys throw shit at me it's still on the better side of rpgs in general.

Basically, every point I had to argue where there was something wrong with the game made me realize that the same concept had been done right in FFXII (which I find pretty underrated tbh). To name a few:

Incredibly linear, no choices of location or sidequests.

FFXII:Oodles of exploration and hunting to do straight from the offset to give you breaks from the linearity of the plot.

Return to sphere grid concept but really annoyingly capped to the point where you have to complete the game before you can max anything out.

FFXII: Really open choices to develop your characters with a focus on anything but still open later on in the game, arguably a bit homogenized. Also included original leveling system.

Inability to talk to NPCs and explore the towns and cities that usually give the worlds of FF games their charm and sense of immersion.

FFXII: Lots of funny and interesting people to meet in some large and small towns to explore.

Irritatingly extreme character traits (with the exception of Sahz).

FFXII: Balanced more believable characters, arguably a bit bland but I never buy into this theory. Apart from Vaan/Penelo the entire cast of the game is great to me.

Obviously 12 had it's own issues but basically I just felt limited by the corridor gaming of FFXIII. The one chapter where you really get loose is great but not a whole lot to see there. FFXIII reminded me of FFX quite a lot, in that they're both incredibly linear until a certain point when they become pretty open, but FFX with its characterized cities for you to explore as opposed to corridors really felt like a world to become immersed in so you don't care or notice that it's linear.

B- not as good as your earlier work.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

...There are FFXIII fanboys?

I don't think anyone here is saying it's their favorite FF by a longshot. Definitely the prettiest with great battle system and a decent plot(until it goes apeshit towards the end of the second disc), but best FF ever? I think the entire internet can concur that this is not the case.

That being said, the whole linearity argument is getting pretty old, as that's pretty much a staple of JRPGs as a whole since FFX, which isn't to say that you aren't right about it being one big corridor, but a certain degree of linearity is to be expected when playing a JRPG.

As for the rest of your complaints, well they're perfectly valid. I personally didn't have that big of a problem with not having NPCs around or huge towns to explore, in fact I actually liked the fact that they removed most of that fluff(because like Jeremy Parish pointed out on the ATB podcast, he thinks that SE doesn't really do towns well, and I tend to agree).

All in all, Final Fantasy XIII is an enjoyable game(I can agree with your B-, albeit for different reasons) that is marred by problems probably associated with a rushed release schedule. Friends tell me that months later, they still haven't finished the game, and I say it's perfectly fine, since it seems that the developers didn't either.

[Fishy]

Well my point wasn't that that linearity is a problem, it's just that some of the other titles are so absorbing in the scale of the world that you don't notice or care. I felt that was absent in 13. 7, 8, 9 and 10 are all equally linear really, they just don't feel it as much.

And there are fanboys of everything.

Just btw it was pretty good overall, just not good enough to replay for me .