Pokémon Black/White: V-Create Victini on Nintendo WiFi until Dec 31st!

[Dunther]

Now would be the time to start replacing the same old recycled "go to gyms, meet team of the week, defeat them, fight E4" writing we've had since Red and Green. Even RSE, with it's better plot isn't that much better.

I wouldn't like a different plot, I like the Pokémon canons, but they can be done really better and "mature".

Anyway, I think that the first versions got a more interesting story in some points. Like the Team Rocket, before the anime's Jessie and James it remembered me a sort of mafia...

[JackKieser]

I wouldn't like a different plot, I like the Pokémon canons, but they can be done really better and "mature".

Anyway, I think that the first versions got a more interesting story in some points. Like the Team Rocket, before the anime's Jessie and James it remembered me a sort of mafia...

There's really nothing wrong with Team Rocket... other than how they are monumental pussies. Along with the whole "game maturity" thing comes Team Rocket's persona(s). Even in the original games, Team Rocket never really meant much; they were (and are) just a ploy for sections of the game where they need a boost in trainers for exp. gains. Team Rocket was never particularly menacing, nor were they particularly scary to fight.

Team Rocket's plans in HG/SS were actually better conveyed this time around, although there is still room for improvement. I mean, granted, it was basically the G/S/C story, but using the Radio Tower to force an entire country's worth of Pkmn to go insane is bordering on devious. Here's some tips, Ninty:

Team Rocket needs to become less "minor inconvenience" and more "mafia-style crime syndicate". Enough of the under-leveled Rattatas. Give them actually menacing Pokemon; after all, they were supposed to have stolen these Pokemon from legit trainers. I want to see a Team Rocket grunt with a Kangaskahn 5 levels higher than me.

On the same note, stop letting me walk in and out of their bases. Oops, I let Koffing explode all over my Dratini; better head to the Pkmn Center really quick. ... ...no. Make me fight 2 guys at once to get in, almost get wrecked, then get locked inside the base with only the healing items I happen to have on me at the time. Then, triple the number of grunts I have to fight, and I guarantee you I'll be a little more frightented by Team Rocket.

As for their plan this time around, a good attempt. The scene with the Electrodes was interesting (I chose to capture, instead of kill; they WERE innocent, after all). What SHOULD have happened, though, was that Team Rocket should have succeeded. I should have then had to fight my way to the top of the tower using Pokemon that were being driven mad by the Radio Tower signal; maybe make a special in-battle element for just this section, like a confusion on overdrive... make me feel sorry for my poor, poor Pokemon. I mean, let me see these poor creatures being tortured from inside their heads to make me REALLY hate those Team Rocket bastards. Maybe even let Team Rocket's Pokemon be affected at times to show how little they care about even their own Pokemon.

We're always told that Team Rocket is willing to do heinous things to their own Pokemon to acheive their goals; it's about time we saw that in action.

[Overflow]

^ SPOILERS ^

Anyways, looks like the Celebi download info has been released:

More Details on Movie 13 Distributions: Beasts’ Attacks and Celebi Download

[Mirby]

That... is a really good idea. Make them more menacing then just exp-builders. Take a cue from Team Galactic; Cyrus was ready to destroy the world or something just to gain ultimate power. Now THAT is menacing! They should take the same philosophy and apply it to Team Rocket, or even a new team if they decide to go that route.

Hell, even Aqua and Magma were more menacing than Rocket; then again, they wussed out a little once they succeeded in their plans. Couldn't take the heat?

[Melbu Frahma]

Here are the different things that need doing:

1 ) A full-3D main entry. No cutting corners like with Coliseum.

2 ) Higher quality music. Arrangements are ok as they are; give us a better sound already.

3 ) Full battle animation. Seriously. It's about damn time. And let the Pokemon actually interact for a change.

3 ) MMORPG. You can keep making mini-games all you want, but there comes a point where Battle Frontier isn't enough. The people who built this franchise are all grown up now (I was in 4th grade when Pkmn came to the states, and I'm 22 now), and we'd like a more grown-up game, please.

4 ) Make the Pokemon more alive. Having the Pkmn walk with you and actually interact with you is a great step, but I'm talking things like hibernation and migration patterns. It's about time Pokemon can be found all over the place, like in nature.

5 ) End the National Pokedex. Seriously, we have 500 of these little bastards. It's about time they've populated the whole planet. Stop restricting us to a set of 100 viable, catchable Pokemon before the Elite Four. The Pokewalker helps a lot, but even that has some overlap.

6 ) Let us catch the starters in the wild. It's been over 15 years; I'm pretty sure we've bred enough of them to fill the planet by now.

Ok, Nintendo. Get on it.

I'd like to add, with apologies if these have already happened because I've only played to the Crystal/Gold/Silver iteration:

7 ) How about seeing some Pkmn who learn HMs naturally? And no, I'm not talking about breeding. Things like, oh, I don't know, Goldeens already being able to use Waterfall.

8 ) Stop with the "tall grass only" bullcrap. I've yet to see an animal in real life that will stop following me or running from me just because we reach a paved road.

[JackKieser]

That... is a really good idea. Make them more menacing then just exp-builders. Take a cue from Team Galactic; Cyrus was ready to destroy the world or something just to gain ultimate power. Now THAT is menacing! They should take the same philosophy and apply it to Team Rocket, or even a new team if they decide to go that route.

Hell, even Aqua and Magma were more menacing than Rocket; then again, they wussed out a little once they succeeded in their plans. Couldn't take the heat?

It's more than just that, though; the difference between mere Exp. builders and actual villains has to do with concequence; every story (game, film, literature, etc.) needs an element of concequence to make it seem more important.

This is something that R/S/E did very well; the respective Teams actually accomplished their plans, and we got to see, first hand, the results of their folly. That's part of why Team Rocket is never really a threat in any games; we know they aren't going to succeed, and we know they are only going to have low-level crap Pokemon. The element of surprise helps to drive a story, so Team Rocket needs to surprise us if they want to remain relevant.

[Bleck]

newsflash: pokemon is a kid game for kids

it doesn't need to be more 'mature'

[Mirby]

Yeah, but we did mention other menacing teams in other Pokemon games... soo... yeah...

[Bleck]

so what you're saying is that they need to be just as mature as they have been being

good I'm glad we agree

[Dunther]

Team Rocket was never particularly menacing, nor were they particularly scary to fight.

Here's some tips, Ninty:

Team Rocket needs to become less "minor inconvenience" and more "mafia-style crime syndicate". Enough of the under-leveled Rattatas. Give them actually menacing Pokemon; after all, they were supposed to have stolen these Pokemon from legit trainers. I want to see a Team Rocket grunt with a Kangaskahn 5 levels higher than me.

On the same note, stop letting me walk in and out of their bases. Oops, I let Koffing explode all over my Dratini; better head to the Pkmn Center really quick. ... ...no. Make me fight 2 guys at once to get in, almost get wrecked, then get locked inside the base with only the healing items I happen to have on me at the time. Then, triple the number of grunts I have to fight, and I guarantee you I'll be a little more frightented by Team Rocket.

As for their plan this time around, a good attempt. The scene with the Electrodes was interesting (I chose to capture, instead of kill; they WERE innocent, after all). What SHOULD have happened, though, was that Team Rocket should have succeeded. I should have then had to fight my way to the top of the tower using Pokemon that were being driven mad by the Radio Tower signal; maybe make a special in-battle element for just this section, like a confusion on overdrive... make me feel sorry for my poor, poor Pokemon. I mean, let me see these poor creatures being tortured from inside their heads to make me REALLY hate those Team Rocket bastards. Maybe even let Team Rocket's Pokemon be affected at times to show how little they care about even their own Pokemon.

We're always told that Team Rocket is willing to do heinous things to their own Pokemon to acheive their goals; it's about time we saw that in action.

Yeah I'm not saying that the game couldn't be greatly improved in both story and challenge

Anyway, I always hoped to have a more Tamagotchi-style interaction with your Pokémons...something like Digimon World for PSX, if you know what I mean.

[Overflow]

Yeah I'm not saying that the game couldn't be greatly improved in both story and challenge

Anyway, I always hoped to have a more Tamagotchi-style interaction with your Pokémons...something like Digimon World for PSX, if you know what I mean.

What, the pokewalker isn't enough?

I don't think that would work too well, though. Your pokemon wouldn't fight well if it was hunfry, so you'd have to spend money to make sure you're fully stocked up, and then it would just disobey you in battle because you didn't play with it, so you'd discipline it and it would just run away. Lol, at least that's how my past experiences with tamagochis always went. That, or they'd die in 2 hours.

I like the interaction they have now, where they walk behind you, but I suppose it could help if you could give it treats or pet it to make it more friendly. Evolve that Togetic real fast.

[ocre]

I dunno. Maybe I'm alone here but I never did get into the whole Pokeblock or Poffin-making aspect of the games. The contests never interested me and I didn't like how Pokeblocks and Poffins permanently affect your Pokemon. So if you max out it's contest stats, that's it, no going back.

[JackKieser]

Oh, god, Bleck is infecting this thread, too. Quick everyone; ignore him entirely.

Having your Pokemon react to YOU more realistically (in a personaly sense) would be nice, but I think that's a change better suited for down the road, and only then to give there a REASON for Frustration to even exist as a move. Otherwise, it's better for them to focus on more important / time-consuming things... like proper animations for 493+ individual Pokemon, including special move animations. That's... a big job.

[Overflow]

like proper animations for 493+ individual Pokemon, including special move animations. That's... a big job.

That's true. From a developer standpoint, I can totally understand them shuddering in fear of this idea and going with stationary sprites again.

[Mirby]

After much searching, and reading the previous 158 because I couldn't remember what this one was called, I found this episode of Brawl in the Family that describes why Team Rocket is not menacing.

[Melbu Frahma]

After much searching, and reading the previous 158 because I couldn't remember what this one was called, I found this episode of Brawl in the Family that describes why Team Rocket is not menacing.

Haha, so true. I mean, shouldn't they at least be carrying tranq guns, at the least?

[Archaon]

After much searching, and reading the previous 158 because I couldn't remember what this one was called, I found this episode of Brawl in the Family that describes why Team Rocket is not menacing.

When you think about it, that almost kind of makes sense. Pokemon are a big equaliser, after all. Yeah, if you pull a gun on some kid, maybe he'll run away. Or maybe he'll bust out an Alakazam and spitroast your brain. You can never be sure unless all his mons are out of commission.

[Melbu Frahma]

When you think about it, that almost kind of makes sense. Pokemon are a big equaliser, after all. Yeah, if you pull a gun on some kid, maybe he'll run away. Or maybe he'll bust out an Alakazam and spitroast your brain. You can never be sure unless all his mons are out of commission.

Or you could just become an Old West-style quickdraw and blow his brains out of his adolescent head. I'm sure that'd work, too.

Although the idea of a Blastoise ripping a man's head off and devouring it while the villain is uselessly firing a machine gun at its shell is rather amusing, come to think of it. Very amusing indeed.

[JackKieser]

Do they even HAVE guns in Pokemon? I honestly can't remember ever seeing a firearm alluded to in any of the games, although it's more likely that they would have been talked about in the earlier games (before people got pissy about the content of games), and I can see myself forgetting the dialog of the older games.

[Mirby]

Well, it's not like you'd be able to tell from the sprites or the style... But if you think about it... wouldn't a supposedly evil organization provide guns? I think that's all this is showing. You'd think they'd have guns, but nooooo.... LET'S USE A Lv 5 RATTATA WHEN THE TRAINER HAS A FRIGGIN' CHARIZARD or something...

[JackKieser]

No no no... I mean, obviously, this is AU stuff we're dealing with, and presumably, Pokemon have existed for most, if not all, of human history. When you have access to a creature that can melt minds, guns are kind of unnecessary... so how do we know that ballistic weaponry was ever invented in the Pokemon world? For all we know, Team Rocket doesn't distribute guns to their members because guns literally don't exist.

[Zombie]

I watched the show Life on discovery last night and it was so much like Pokemon.

[Tables]

I has two surfing Pikachuz

[ocre]

Do they even HAVE guns in Pokemon? I honestly can't remember ever seeing a firearm alluded to in any of the games, although it's more likely that they would have been talked about in the earlier games (before people got pissy about the content of games), and I can see myself forgetting the dialog of the older games.

As far as the anime, there was actually a banned-in-the-US episode where the Safari Zone warden kept pointing a gun at Ash and co. "http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Weaponry_in_the_Pok%C3%A9mon_world'>And other episodes.

[OutSpoken]

Firearms in Pokemon would definitely still have use, but Pokemon do sort of render them obsolete. Explosive ordnance or larger caliber rounds would seem to be the best option, but they'd be useless against any fairly strong Pokemon. As far as practical use goes firearms in Pokemon would seemingly only work for snipers interested in taking the enemy by surprise or those interested in personal defense from very weak Pokemon (i.e. Caterpie). Of course firearms are useful against humans, but only if they lack a Pokemon to protect them. Luckily the world of Pokemon isn't that brutal...

I've actually had an interesting discussion on this topic before with the author of The Golden Apocalypse as it deals heavily with realism in Pokemon.