Zelda NES Dungeon remix needs name

[Emunator]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not a musician so I can't really tell you step-by-step directions on how to fix it, but identifying the problem is the first step I suppose Hopefully that was at least a little helpful to you.

[SLyGeN]

You know, I'm still just not feeling the way everything is mixed together.

As metalheads, we need to resist the urge to crank each individual track to like -0.4dB. Remember, the levels in your DAW are just there to adjust each instruments' volume in relation to the rest; you get volume from your sound system's amp. So go ahead and bring the guitars down a little bit so that the strings and voice can make it through the assaulting guitars, and keep tweaking the guitars' EQ so that they have their own space in the mix, and aren't hogging up the entire sound spectrum.

Use your ears as a judge, but let me throw out some quick ideas for equalizing your shit.

Bass guitar

-cut the lows below 60hz

-raise the lows between 60 - 300hz a bit.

-add a little notch at 1-2khz to give those guitar strings a little edge

Rhythm guitar

-raise between 300hz and 4khz.

-low-cut and hi-cut at the very ends

Lead guitar

-Raise between 600hz and 8khz, but no hi-cut

-lower everything below 600hz

-low cut the bottom

Strings and Voice

-raise the midranges and highs, drop the lows a bit

-low cut at the bottom

Tweak gain levels, too. Even just a little gain and distortion will give you an edgy, metal sound. Too much gets overpowering and noisy. And I understand you're going for a Dimmu sound. Personally I think they could mix their guitars a little better, but let us just work on getting this mix sounding professional before you start breaking the rules on purpose. Once it sounds clean, then I agree, kick the gain and distortion up just a bit to make us bleed a little. Feels good, man.

I'll be back for the next version. Oh, and consider updating the first post with the new version so that one doesn't accidentally listen to the wrong one. I almost did that once; not sure if I mentioned it.

[DragnBreth]

Just popping in to say I'm still keeping tabs on this, even if I don't post. At this point the tips and suggestions have gone way beyond my area of expertise (which is to say, absolutely nothing, cause I'm a n00b, lol). Anyway, keep up the awesome work, jabond, and I look forward to the next update.

[SLyGeN]

Just popping in to say I'm still keeping tabs on this, even if I don't post. At this point the tips and suggestions have gone way beyond my area of expertise (which is to say, absolutely nothing, cause I'm a n00b, lol). Anyway, keep up the awesome work, jabond, and I look forward to the next update.

I clearly remember when I felt the exact same way. I've only been studying digital music for the last two years.

But, if you've got an opinion, preach it anyway. Part of being good at something is being able to translate layman-speak to technical speak.

[TMF128]

It sounds pretty good, the guitar playing sounds great.

The only thing I recommend fixing is the bass drum part in the beginning (not the part where the guitars come in.) Something sounds a little off about it.

Also, adjust the guitar's eq a little bit by lowering the bass a little bit, and maybe increase the volume of the actual bass part (if there is one.)

It still sounds great though. I enjoyed listening to it.

[jabond23]

Alright, thanks to SLyGeN and his very thorough comments, i've got another update for ya. I did all tweaks the SLyGeN suggested an a couple more small tweaks and this is what i came up with: Its come a long way and this my 8th version. Better to take my time than just rushing it, lol.

BTW, yes, SLyGeN, i'm still using my old kick for now, but i tweaked it a lot to make it more powerful sounding.

[Simwright]

Hey thanks for your opinion on my remix and i see what your saying. i am just using Garageband to record my guitar parts and i can't get the tone right on it. i was playing over the original track until i can get some synthesizer in its place so the original track isn't going to stay there. i do not know why the guitars are put to one side. i've tried to change this setting over and over but it will not cooperate. thanks again for helping and do you have any suggestions for recording software at all.

[SLyGeN]

Unfortunately I'm not hearing much of a difference. All the noise continues to drown out the softer instruments, and even the lead guitar during it's breif section, and the bass drum still seems to cause everything else to duck under it.

Honestly I say ditch the compressors 'til someone comes in here who knows anything about them; I think the compressors are causing the problems. You can test my theory by bringing the volume of each individual track down by half (guitars by maybe a little more) and see if it cleans itself up a little.

Also, are you equalizing that kick of yours? It sounds like you've reefed the 500hz-1khz range way up, when you kinda want just the opposite IMO. Around 2 - 5khz is where our hearing is most sensitive, and then it drops off from there. So those numbers I guessed at first are still frequencies that we hear pretty damn well. Those frequencies sound very present when they exist, so if they're turned way up, it'll be overpowering. I was probably unclear before when I asked you to let me hear that kick because now I really can hear it, and can hear it very well. So much so that there's no room for everything else. Plus you're not getting what you want out of it at that range either. We're looking for a good bass rumble, and a noticable, but not overpowering click of the beater making contact with the drum head.

Also, of course, don't just do what I say. Whatever I tell you, please do consider it and check it out, but ultimately the idea is to make it so that you're satisfied with the way it sounds. And I know you aren't satisfied with the mixing in its current state; the mixing can be much better. Let the track play in the background, and start fussing with shit until your kick has that Dimmu sound you're looking for, and your other instruments start poking through the rhythm guitar.

OH ALSO, one more thing. Everyone on this site is going to disagree with me here most likely, but this is coming not just from me, but from a professor who has been in the digital audio industry for many years: Don't fucking use headphones. If you are, ditch 'em and mix on a good set of speakers. Lower-range mixing errors tend to sneak by you on headphones; it's different when you and the room can actually feel the music rather than just listen to it.

That, and the general public listen on speakers; not headphones.

[jabond23]

I actually hear a slight difference. I think it sounds better now. Although i do kinda agree with you on the kick still. I'll tweak it some more and try the other kick also. It is slightly EQed, but i need to tweak it more. Its always the little things. Not that the bass kick is little, but shouldn't be this big a problem, lol.

Also i agree with you about the mixing with headphones issue. I never use headphones cause when i do it always sounds off when hearing it on speakers.

[jabond23]

Well i'm still messing around with this mix. I lowered the volume on all the tracks by a couple notches cause i think maybe the volume was dragging the tracks into each other. I also spent some time tweaking the EQs again. I love metal, but damn is it difficult to mix sometimes, lol.

I can't really figure out anything else that i need to do with this mix. I'm still kinda working on that kick drum, but i'm not really sure what else i can do with it.

[DragnBreth]

So... awesome... *face melt*

The kick is coming along nicely. Definitely more audible than it used to be, a lot more remenicient of Into Eternity (a good thing in my books, and I think close to the sound you're trying to go for as far as the kick drum is concerned).

I can't really figure out anything else that i need to do with this mix. I'm still kinda working on that kick drum, but i'm not really sure what else i can do with it.

Mayhaps another Mod-Review is in order?

[jabond23]

So... awesome... *face melt*

Lol! Thanks man. Yeah, i think one more mod review is in order then maybe i submit it finally? I really wanted to spend a lot of time on this one to get it right.

[Emunator]

Ok, first off nice work on accepting and incorporating feedback That's what this forum is all about and you've been getting some excellent feedback from people on this board.

However, I still don't think this one's ready for primetime - while you definitely did a good job of ironing out the kinks with the drum sequencing (I still think the kick is too weak in the intro and the drums as a whole are kind of thin throughout the rest of the song, though) that section of the song is really overpowering everything else, so all of the instruments that should be leads are totally buried and hardly audible at all I'm not sure whether bringing up your leads or bringing down your bass/drums would help more, but one way or another your mixing on this is really lopsided and it's hurting the song overall.

Things sound fine up until :26, and then again at :45 and 1:36 when the drums let up a little bit, but other than that the whole song is suffering from this issue, sadly, and I think it's the machine-gun drums' fault.

If we're going into more detail here, I'd also say that the synth you've got playing at 1:15 that gets repeated throughout the song is really bland, I think you could use a synth with more punch and energy to it if you want it to stand out next to the rest of the high-energy instruments you've used.

Also, something really loud is happening at :55 with the kick beneath the cymbal crash and it sticks out a bit painfully. Maybe tone down that particular drumbeat so it's at a similar volume level to the rest of your drums.

Keep working on this though, you've got a solid arrangement and a very good idea at work, but the mixing is dragging it down hardcore. Luckily I think you've got most of the sequencing and instrument parts recorded/written fine, it's just a matter of working them all into a cohesive package where nothing is overpowering the rest of the soundscape.

Keep going on this

[phantasia]

Really nice idea and it's pretty damn good so far. My only qualms:

The guitar solo is a bit weak sounding and I think it should be more attached to the source. I also agree with Emunator that the synth is too bland and should be more energized.

If high end is crowded, just get the punchy snare down just a little bit (although I like it) and raise the meoldic instruments a bit more.

[emora]

I think everything I wanted to say has already been said, so simply I can't wait for this to be finished

[jabond23]

Well i really wanna finish this too! lol.

After a lot of tweaking and new ideas, i've got another update for you. I tried separating the tracks even more and i think i've done a good here. Of course, my DAW kept crashing cause of the ridiculous resources it uses, lol. Maybe i should consider getting, dare i say it, a Mac? hmmm....maybe. Also, i'm not sure what to name this still.

Also, i figured out what was bogging down the drums. I used too much reverb. I had reverb on the drums tracks twice, lol.

[SLyGeN]

Nice little pickup arpeggio with the violins. What notes did you use for it? Consider making it more scalar.

Regarding the kick drums, I meant to post something yesterday. In class I learned that I gave you a little bogus information. The high portion of your kick drum sound is actually around 3-5khz, not what I said earlier (so in reality, a lot higher than I thought!)

This is also why I recommend just playing and fiddling.. if you take a notch in your EQ and slowly drag it across the whole band, you'll hear the texture change, not just for a kick drum, but for any instrument.

Today for my final, I did a lot of kick drum EQing. When you slide that notch in the right place, you recognize that familiar sound from the professionally mixed CDs in your personal library. What ended up sounding good was pretty much just a low shelf at about 100-200hz, and a notch at 4 khz with a somewhat widened Q. Raise/lower/mess with those to your liking.

I also learned quite a bit about compression! Fuck yeah. I'll explain that some other day if you want, but the basic idea for this sort of application was to only use it with a VERY small threshold (i.e., set it loud) with a HIGH compression ratio. It's mostly just clip prevention, by making those peaks softer.

Soft knee is good.

Limiter is bad.

Sharp attack.

Relatively sharp release.

If you've got a compressor and you're not sure why it's there, take it off. It's one of those things that can make the music a little better, but in the wrong hands is more likely to just make it a lot worse.

Keep in mind, though, you probably will have to learn and implement good use of a compressor to get something on the site.

As far as your lead instruments, either make them way louder or everything else way quieter. Take your pick. I'd also raise the highs on those strings to make them more present.

[jabond23]

Damn, see, i had no idea about that, lol. I was just doing what i always did. Learn one small thing with every mix and apply it to ALL my mixes, lol. I'm gonna mess around more with the new EQ advice you've given me. Also, i wouldn't mind knowing more about compression. I know the basics, enough to get my music to sound better.

Also, for that arpeggio pickup, i just used the 6 notes that are played from the source, D up half a step each time til it hits G sharp. That's for both that quick hit in the intro and right after the solo. Then In the source its the other way round though, obviously. I might make the quick hits parts more scalar like you mentioned. I like the down scale though just after the solo at 2:26.

EDIT: Here's a new WIP with the fixed kick drum. I took off the compression again and tweaked the EQ to the settings you specified. YEAH!!

[SLyGeN]

It's beginning to sound like just a bad sample to use for a kick, assuming you're looking to make it sound like a real kick drum. Keep the EQ as it is, and try loading a better sample into there. the EQ may need minor tweaking after that.

With your violins, the jump from G# to D makes the arpeggiation feel less smooth. If that's what you're going for, then great, although since it's being used to introduce the instrument to the piece, I'd consider making it more scalar and more evenly spaced.

Once it's in there, it can jump around all it wants. In fact, I think it would be a nice effect if you had the strings play an embellished melody above the vocals and guitars.

[Mirby]

I think it sounds awesome... but meh.

As for a name... since it's the Zelda 1 dungeon theme... METAL or some other one-word name, since all the dungeon names in that game were one word (granted I think they were also based off of the shape of the dungeon, but still)

[Dj Mokram]

According to my calculations, this should be the 13th version. This mix sure has come a long way.

Well, there isn't much left to criticize, so I'm simply gonna adress a few additions in this last version.

I don't dig the short swell intro at 0:24. It sounds strident and almost fake/cartoonish, which isn't in par with the dark tone of the song.

Your bass/rythm guitar now have a lot of presence, which is a good thing.

But it gets overwhelming in certain instances, like from 0:55, where it's taking a little too much space in the soundscape.

Finally, I really like the final solo and ending from 3:17. It's powerful allright.

Overall, the arrangement gives off an emotional combination of madness and despair, which appropriately convey the tone and fits the source.

As for the title, I was gonna suggest Dungeon of Despair, but that kinda reminded me of something else...

I know you like evocatives and to-the-point titles, so how about: Sublunar Shadows.