Zelda II (Great) Palace Remix

[Kylethedarkn]

Already submitted this, but I figured I'd might as well get some quicker feedback for it here as to be able to use that feedback on my next musical adventure.

Anyways, I was feeling in a Zelda-y Remixy mood and a friend suggested the palace themes, so I made a bit of an electronic medley remix of them and here is the result.

http://www.box.net/shared/z18tm3xldb

You can preview it in browser, but I believe the quality would be better if you downloaded it. Thanks in advance for any review.

[Gario]

I'll save you time on the panel review and say it simply - the production is too simple & quiet. There really isn't too much that's going on there that's original, either (except for the sour notes in the final temple theme - but I don't think those were intentional). You're probably going to get an e-mail from OCR in about four months bolding production problems, being too conservative and having problems with the arrangement.

Here's some detail on why (because at this level there's a good chance you won't get a proper review on the panel - that's what happened to my first submission, too). Listen to the loudness of the track compared to everything else post OCR1000 - it just doesn't compare. Tracks need to have a general volume or else people will not add them to their playlists, since it creates too much of a discrepancy between songs. The trick will be getting it louder without encountering any clipping and such (which I can tell you will with the drums, at the very least, so be aware).

The instruments are fairly basic. You can get away with this, really, but be aware that some people get a little picky when they hear simple synths. Combined with the simple textures, though, it's a killer - the music just doesn't catch anyone's ears as anything special. This will prevent people from listening to it, in the long run. Bring in some more interesting sounds/synths and create more interesting textures (the gated pad is pretty nice, but that alone gets repetitive, after a while).

The drums are bland. The hats are dry, the snare is almost nonexistent and the beats are very simple. This won't fly on OCR - be aware of that for future reference.

The Final Temple track you've integrated in there, while a nice diversion, goes sour since the notes are simply incorrect (and sound like a missed note rather than an intentional effect). 2:19, for example, has a note that's lower than it should be, throwing my ear off (there are many more than this single example, by the way). Go back to the source and try to correct these off notes as best as you can.

I'm not being mean, here - just giving you some feedback. Since you submit to OCR already I'd like to see you at least make it to the panel rather than get rejected outright, so there are some things you can fix & replace the box.net file. That way you can beef out the track to something the J's will spend time on, at least (and hey, if you REALLY push it to the limit, get it accepted), and get some more positive feedback on it. It's not too bad (other than the wrong notes ), but it certainly isn't what OCR is looking for, at the moment. Put stuff up on the WIP forums here and we'll help you along the way before you submit it the next time you've got something going - we'll probably have something helpful to say before you send it off. I hope this critique helps, for the future.

Oh, and welcome to OCR .

[Kylethedarkn]

...you know it hurts my feelings when you lie about my track like that.

Just wanted to say the distortion at 2:19 and the other parts was completely intentional and sounds wonderful imo. Also I'm not sure why you said it wasn't very original seeing as i had breaks were it was completely my own and I tweaked almost every melody in the song and added my own counter melodies at points. :\

I'm not sure what makes a synth sound simple or why it even matters how complex it is, but if you could give me an example of a simple synth versus a complex one, that would be appreciated. Seeing as I used some pretty nice layered oscillator zeta sounds I would think it would be complex.

Though I do agree about the volume issues, didn't realize it needed to be boosted to normal levels until after I submitted it. Also turning it up gets rids of the bland sound it has at lower levels.

As for the drum beat, it is pretty simple, but if you look at any trance song they are all simple.

Though from what I've seen OCR accepting lately its like they pick the tracks that are furthest away from sounding like the source song, which I don't agree with because if you can't even recognize what song its supposed to be a remix of, you might as well not call it a remix.

[Daybreaker]

Amateur's opinion: I like the composition, and you've done some creative stuff with the melody, but since you've kept the same chord progression (as far as I can tell) it doesn't sound quite as original as it could.

I'm not familiar with the final temple song, so while listening it didn't sound off at all to me. But if it sounds off to people who do know the song, you might have a problem.

[Gario]

Constructive criticism hurts the first time or so, but it's quite useful. Let's see if I can get into some detail, here.

'Sour notes' are, apparently, not sour, but intentional. Keep what I said in mind, though - they don't sound intentional to me, there, so it's probably not going to sound intentional to anyone else who listens to it and recognizes the source, either. On your own, it's great if you enjoy it. Music isn't about what you like when you send it out to others.

Synths that are 'simple', in this case, are synths that are thin and don't fill the space that well. bLiNd is good at filling space with his instruments, PrototypeRaptor has sound that fills the bass better than anyone, hell, Shnabubula and Rushjet12 use chiptunes to purposely emulate old videogames like champs. Your sounds accomplish nothing to fill the soundscape or really pump the bass (and emulating old VG sounds from an NES source is sort of pointless). The sounds are just there to 'fill in the notes', so to speak.

I didn't say your drums were simple, I said they were bland. Simple is fine, for some genres (Trance, for example), but bland isn't acceptable for any genre. The bass needs more beef, the snare needs to be far more salient and the overall sound of the drums needs to be cleaner and more crisp.

To be frank, I couldn't tell Trance was the genre that you were going for - what you have doesn't fit Trance arrangement-wise (changing little at a time) nor production-wise (the soundscape was far too thin for). The instruments didn't wash over the listener enough and the drums didn't stick out nearly enough. Again, listen to bLiNd's earlier tracks & Rayza for some really good trance VG remixes, here. Compare the synths and drum track and see the difference.

As for what OCR accepts or doesn't accept... well, DJP makes it pretty clear that he's looking for music that doesn't emulate the source too closely nor stray too far from it - he wants 'artistic' interpretations without losing the VG quality of the music. A good rule of thumb here is 70-30 to 50-50 source-original interpolation, if you want a general idea of what OCR will accept. I say OCR won't accept your track because it's closer to the 80-20 mark, meaning while it has some interpretation, it just isn't enough. Sometimes it seems arbitrary, but hey - it's their site, not yours (or mine).

Again, I'm not attacking you or anything of the sort. I'm giving you honest 3rd party feedback on the track. I hope, again, that this helps you. Good luck.

[Kylethedarkn]

Thank you, that actually helps a ton. I know I already submitted the song, but I think I might go back and rework it just to get it perfect and receive some feedback.

[No Escape]

I will agree with Gario on some points. The drums need help. The snare is not there at all. The composition doesn't deviate that far from the source. The overall volume needs to go up. I'm not 100%, but I do believe the volume increased a few Db throughout the song, intentional or not. I also did not hear "sour" notes, but I'm not extremely familiar with the source. I also did not hear distortion at 2:19 or anywhere else. Maybe the hosting site has a limiter of sorts, but I am an audio engineer and it passed by my ear, so it'll probably be fine. I would definitely listen to Gario as far as passing OCR standards though, as I'm not too familiar with them, but I know they're pretty stringent. Definitely a winning track though. Just do some post production work and resubmit before they get to it.

[Blackwinged Saron]

why get bent out of shape when you get constructive criticism? you asked for help with your next remix. it's not like it's not a bad mix, in fact quite the opposite. this is one of those fence pieces...it could be an OC. we have some older pieces that have the same feel and energy, they made it. But times change, so do people. the standard rises and falls. right now, you're absolutely right, some of the pieces getting through boggle my mind (not that they are bad, just not similar or interpretive enough [despite a bold rule that states the piece must contain some resemblance to the source])But i also think we yearn for raising the bar around here, and this was the bar 4-5 years ago. It's good, it's interpretive, it's talented...it's behind the times. Rework it and resubmit. It's in the running i think. Oh, and for a bit of perspective...why ask for feedback and help if you're gonna submit before even knowing how it will be received. it's like opening a laser tag facility in the middle of farm country, sure they appreciate the entertainment but you don't have the clientel to stay in business.

[Gario]

Be easy on him - he misunderstood the intent of my first post. We've cleared it up since then, and seems appreciative of it, now. He seems to be taking the criticism well enough, now.

I do agree that he should've put it up here before submitting it, but we all make mistakes (I did that very same thing two years ago).

[Sbeast]

The whole mix needs to be louder, at least 3db gain. Also a high end boost would help, as it sounds slightly dull and distant right now.The bass and kick need to be more pumping for this style of music. The arrangement and added material fit in pretty well, its mainly a few production issues on this one.

" ...you know it hurts my feelings when you lie about my track like that"

Hopefully that was sarcasm, because if anything, people will be giving the honest truth on here. Good luck with your submission anyway.

[Cyril the Wolf]

Thank you, that actually helps a ton. I know I already submitted the song, but I think I might go back and rework it just to get it perfect and receive some feedback.

I know this post looks small in comparison to the other ones but its there.

C'mon guys, the dude probably just had a kneejerk reaction to something he was quite proud of. And to me this particular mix isn't really that far from what it would need to be to be OCR (mostly mixing and mastering issues to my ear... and maybe get some more interp in there)

But the point is, he figured out that Gario was only looking to help and he posted that small post in response. No need to overdo it