Eino Keskitalo Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Final version I did the level tweaks Rozovian (edit: and -Dan) suggested and eased up on the limiter a bit. The changes sounded good to me. If you're interested in the Renoise project file, grab it here. old ------------------------------ Final candidate 2: here adjusted EQ to be less overly bright mix the pipe/organ/thing a little lower in places to reduce monotony one additional drum fill Workshop mod review time yo. Source Source breakdown: The vocal melody, used without the drone note and canon/delay: used mainly with the "organ stab note" instrument. Introduced in full 00:07-00:19. Used almost throughout: 00:21-00:47, 01:06-01:08, 01:14-02:08. More sparsely during the last minute: 02:11-02:13, 02:17-02:27, 02:30-02:31, 02:35-02:36, 02:40-02:47, 02:52-02:56. Starts to vary the original melody by following the chord changes from the bass line around 01:57. The lead is also based on the vocal melody line, most clearly 01:02-01:25-ish. Rest of the lead writing is "inspired by" rather than clearly referencing the original. Panned bell from the source used as a panned atmospheric noise, introduced at 00:04, used 00:04-00:48, 01:30-01:44, with about half-speed rhythm during 01:45-02:05, and towards the outro again fading in from 02:48-3:00. ---- oldishish: Final candidate 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrh4kknr8itwd92/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120820.mp3 Finished! Well, final candidate 1 mixdown. Not quite sure about the overall EQ, seemed quite bright compared to some reference ReMixes, and I tried to tone it down, but these other headphones are quite shitty, either I succeeded or I can't tell the difference. For finalizing the mix, apart from a bit of master EQ to done the bass down just a little bit, I just used Renoise's stock Maximizer that I suppose must act as a limitter as well, got a good boost and can't hear any clipping (myself). (Other changes since the last version: shortened the intro a bit, tweaked levels/eqs of particular sounds, that's it.) Source Source breakdown: The vocal melody, used without the drone note and canon/delay: used mainly with the "organ stab note" instrument. Introduced in full 00:07-00:19. Used almost throughout: 00:21-00:47, 01:06-01:08, 01:14-02:08. More sparsely during the last minute: 02:11-02:13, 02:17-02:27, 02:30-02:31, 02:35-02:36, 02:40-02:47, 02:52-02:56. Starts to vary the original melody by following the chord changes from the bass line around 01:57. The lead is also based on the vocal melody line, most clearly 01:02-01:25-ish. Rest of the lead writing is "inspired by" rather than clearly referencing the original. Panned bell from the source used as a panned atmospheric noise, introduced at 00:04, used 00:04-00:48, 01:30-01:44, with about half-speed rhythm during 01:45-02:05, and towards the outro again fading in from 02:48-3:00. ---- oldish: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkc8uppxe9do6s1/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120725.mp3 Textures added. Just started trying out stuff with the idea of adding little synth loop sort of thing to the background (kind of drawing inspiration from Brian Eno on David Bowie's "Heroes") and it turned out to be lots of fun. To me it seems it changed the piece quite a bit, but it was good to take that leap. The intro, while better, probably needs something to be done with the volume levels/fadeins, maybe. Also the main lead probably needs mixing tweaks, it's kind of overpowering/uneven. Turned down the bass a bit and I think that was good. Comments reaaaally appreciated on: * Production * Sounds/soundfield (too basic sounds? too skeletal/empty?) * Source usage (in the second half) The goal is to get this posted. --Eino ---- old: https://www.dropbox.com/s/15lm1nfpuvddror/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120724.mp3 More tweaks to the sound & mixing. I really should do that texture-adding that has been suggested so many times. ---- older: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2o1p8cquxrqvt8/clockwork%20groove%2020120707.mp3 Comments from last time pretty good, and I actually can and should still apply them. I've tweaked the sound since last time and felt like I'd post this for some more comments. I do have things in mind to work on this, but not sure when I will, so I'll put this here for the time being. I'm happy with the structure - tried to extend it, but it felt forced. ---- oldest: This was a PRC compo piece (#174), which I've since extended. This was a pretty fun source in the competition, since it is so minimal. There's just one melody and the bell. I tried to incorporate the bell by playing this "atmospheric noise" sample in a similar manner the bell is used in the source. Other than that, I have the "stabby" organ in the right playing (a variation of) the melody most of the time. The proper lead also plays and varies it during the first half. There's less source in the second half, although it too is based on a variation of the melody on the organ. This is done with the Renoise tracker, and actually mostly with the demo samples. Hopefully that's not a concern. Sooo onto my concerns: * Production (I don't know what I'm doing or what I should be doing, so any comments and pointers are welcome) * Structure (is the ending ok?) * Sounds/soundfield (too basic sounds? too skeletal/empty?) * Source usage (in the second half) I'm personally happy with the tracker sound, especially the lead, but please tell how that sounds to you. Thanks! edit: I should also state my goal like Altermentality did in their Earthworm Jim mix post; I definitely want to submit this to the panel, eventually, so I need some ears! --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Submit this it sounds good to me, i wonder why people ignored this post........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak Eightman Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well man it's good but short. And I cant say anything about quality listening youtube. I'll be honest, I don't understand point of full midi mixes, but this one pretty good. Make it longer in time and create some new melody with new instrument, maybe. Can say more if I hear mp3. Good for the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Hey cool, some replies! Thanks, SonicThHedgog (took a while to type that right), I don't think it's quite up to the par to the posted ReMixes yet. But glad you enjoyed it! mak, you probably listened to the source. Click the box above the "source" link, the one which says "click to listen". --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak Eightman Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 mak, you probably listened to the source. Click the box above the "source" link, the one which says "click to listen". Yeah! It wasn't appears on my screen for some reason. Well.. I was right) I like bass line, I like mix idea. I don't like sound. To midi. You may change those instruments on something more real. But! You may change nothing!! More High in EQ, something "FM-7 soundlike" in solo(left), something like marimba(maybe;-)) in right, more realistic snare. And submit!! And how about more cymbals? I think those will give some individuality charm to your mix, cause I herd pretty much "soundlike" mixes.. Anyway.. I like your vision! Good work! P.S. What a creep I am!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 yes more realistic instruments, if you like you can shoot over some midi and i can add some intruments form the eastweast library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Thanks for the replies again! So far everyone has mentioned the plain/basic/cheap sounds (here and elsewhere), so they do need to be beefed up. I don't want to have a realistic sound, I want to keep the tracker feel, but at the same time it shouldn't sound plain. Mak, those were some inspiring ideas, marimba could well work! =) SonicThHedgog, I don't have any midi.. it's made with Renoise tracker. Thanks for the offer anyhow! --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoeN Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Thanks for the replies again! So far everyone has mentioned the plain/basic/cheap sounds (here and elsewhere), so they do need to be beefed up. I don't want to have a realistic sound, I want to keep the tracker feel, but at the same time it shouldn't sound plain. Mak, those were some inspiring ideas, marimba could well work! =) SonicThHedgog, I don't have any midi.. it's made with Renoise tracker. Thanks for the offer anyhow!--Eino Dude, I think tracker really suits this arrangement, and for what it's worth, I don't feel that it's too short! It's sounding great through my cheapo Logitech 2.1 system. The rhythms are what I enjoy most about it; I'm jamming along with it right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 Thanks! I'll probably try extending it, but not just for length's sake. If it won't work, then that's the structure. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Bison Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Wow! Interesting. I love the gaps in the rhythmic patterns. I am really excited to see where this one goes. I realize your style is very synthetic, and that's what makes it strong. A few textural punches and builds could expand your stereo image and add. You are already doing this with the filtered noise sound, but more variety could be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulinEther Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I think these sounds work. Everything feels a little understated as the mixing seems to be a little quiet, but it might work better this way. Maybe leads could be boosted? I'm getting a real sort of funky, pensive, sim city vibe from this, which is not at all what i'd expect with a castlevania source, but I'm really enjoying it. The second half carries over ideas from the first half but I found the motifs and variations to be natural and fitting with what the source offers. Thought: the little riff at 2:08 is really amazing. I think it deserves more of a highlight in this mix than it gets presently. How would it sound if those 7 notes were played solo, and you reintroduce your backing after it, as a sort of mini-breakdown/build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 Thanks for the comments, EBison and SoulinEther. It's very satisfying to hear that some of those things worked for you. Good ideas, too! I certainly like the idea of adding more textural detail, and also the idea of giving that 2nd half lead figure a bit more space. Cool to hear you liked it so much, SoulinEther. I haven't yet worked on the piece, but from my last listening I felt the overall sound was flimsier than I'd like - and that seems to line up nicely with all the comments I've received. I have a lot to learn when it comes to production, so I'll be spending a lot of time trying to beef this one up. Any hints what I could do would be greatly appreciated! --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b2o1p8cquxrqvt8/clockwork%20groove%2020120707.mp3 Comments from last time pretty good, and I actually can and should still apply them. I've tweaked the sound since last time and felt like I'd post this for some more comments. I do have things in mind to work on this, but not sure when I will, so I'll put this here for the time being. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 https://www.dropbox.com/s/15lm1nfpuvddror/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120724.mp3 More tweaks to the sound & mixing. I really should do that texture-adding that has been suggested so many times. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkc8uppxe9do6s1/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120725.mp3 Textures added. Just started trying out stuff with the idea of adding little synth loop sort of thing to the background (kind of drawing inspiration from Brian Eno on David Bowie's "Heroes") and it turned out to be lots of fun. To me it seems it changed the piece quite a bit, but it was good to take that leap. The intro, while better, probably needs something to be done with the volume levels/fadeins, maybe. Also the main lead probably needs mixing tweaks, it's kind of overpowering/uneven. Turned down the bass a bit and I think that was good. Comments reaaaally appreciated. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Final candidate 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrh4kknr8itwd92/keskitalo-clockwork_groove-20120820.mp3 Finished! Well, final candidate 1 mixdown. Not quite sure about the overall EQ, seemed quite bright compared to some reference ReMixes, and I tried to tone it down, but these other headphones are quite shitty, either I succeeded or I can't tell the difference. For finalizing the mix, apart from a bit of master EQ to done the bass down just a little bit, I just used Renoise's stock Maximizer that I suppose must act as a limitter as well, got a good boost and can't hear any clipping (myself). (Other changes since the last version: shortened the intro a bit, tweaked levels/eqs of particular sounds, that's it.) Source Source breakdown: The vocal melody, used without the drone note and canon/delay: used mainly with the "organ stab note" instrument. Introduced in full 00:07-00:19. Used almost throughout: 00:21-00:47, 01:06-01:08, 01:14-02:08. More sparsely during the last minute: 02:11-02:13, 02:17-02:27, 02:30-02:31, 02:35-02:36, 02:40-02:47, 02:52-02:56. Starts to vary the original melody by following the chord changes from the bass line around 01:57. The lead is also based on the vocal melody line, most clearly 01:02-01:25-ish. Rest of the lead writing is "inspired by" rather than clearly referencing the original. Panned bell from the source used as a panned atmospheric noise, introduced at 00:04, used 00:04-00:48, 01:30-01:44, with about half-speed rhythm during 01:45-02:05, and towards the outro again fading in from 02:48-3:00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sounds great. Production sounds nice, clean and clear. I love the dynamic start but think its possibly a little too quiet compared to when it kicks in at 00:23. Its a nitpick though. The source is easily recogniseable and there's really nice expansion of it. It sounds even more like Castlevania than the original I think the arrangement/instrumentation remains a little too static by half way through. The pipe/accompaniment thing could perhaps take a break earlier on the arrangement before returning than it already does. Perhaps mess around with some extra grooves? There's plenty of interest but once it gets going, but I think you milk the breakdown more and build to an even more energetic climax. You can squeeze some more excitement out of this. Harmonically, it seems to be the same progression throughout. Having a little bit of exploration with some new chords or moving to some new keys would also provide nice contrast to keep the initial excitement/interest going. But yeah, seriously, these are just some thoughts. The mix is well produced and crafted. You incorporate the source well with your own touches and expansions. I enjoyed listening to it, more people need to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Many many thanks for excellent feedback, it's clear you took an insightful listen! Sounds great. Production sounds nice, clean and clear. I love the dynamic start but think its possibly a little too quiet compared to when it kicks in at 00:23. Its a nitpick though.The source is easily recogniseable and there's really nice expansion of it. It sounds even more like Castlevania than the original Haha, that's a nice compliment The intro is indeed a bit quiet, but I'm drawing a blank what to do about it. So it'll do for now. Thanks for pointing it out, it confirms my suspicion about it. If I get an idea between here and submitting, I'll fix it. Thanks for the production compliments too. I did try to adjust the overly bright EQ in this new revision (below), and now I think it sounds ok - a bit bright, but ok. I think the arrangement/instrumentation remains a little too static by half way through. The pipe/accompaniment thing could perhaps take a break earlier on the arrangement before returning than it already does. Perhaps mess around with some extra grooves? There's plenty of interest but once it gets going, but I think you milk the breakdown more and build to an even more energetic climax. You can squeeze some more excitement out of this. Harmonically, it seems to be the same progression throughout. Having a little bit of exploration with some new chords or moving to some new keys would also provide nice contrast to keep the initial excitement/interest going.But yeah, seriously, these are just some thoughts. The mix is well produced and crafted. You incorporate the source well with your own touches and expansions. I enjoyed listening to it, more people need to I can't disagree with those points. The chord structure does change halfway, but only slightly, and overall it's a pretty static piece indeed. The idea to emphasize the breakdown more is a good one. However, I think I'll stick with this (unless it gets NO'd because of that) since I'm reasonably happy with the arrangement and I'm looking to move on. I did mix the pipe/stabby thing a little lower here and there (I tried to mute it occasionally, but the mix felt empty), and added one fill somewhere. I'll keep your feedback in mind for future stuff though! Final candidate 2: here adjusted EQ to be less overly bright mix the pipe/organ/thing a little lower in places to reduce monotony one additional drum fill Workshop mod time yo. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Sorry, no review yet. Bumping this for the other mods (or for myself, but still don't have time for a rev) so it doesn't get forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 So I got all excited and anxious seeing this thread come up in the front page for no reason at all? You devious thread-bumper you. (Appreciated.) --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Finally a review! Mixing seems a little overdone, it feels a bit forced. Easing up on compression might help, tho I'd start with softening lead levels a little. Bass might be a touch too loud as well. Clap and reverse crashes are quite loud as well. Once those are all a notch softer, the compression wouldn't be as hard anymore anyway, so you might not need to adjust that if you just drop levels slightly. It still hinges on the panel's view of the source usage. I hear the source as pointed out in the first post, most of it at least. To me it feels fine, but I've had similar stuff rejected. My guess is a yes, with some discussion as to whether or not the original/inspired writing on top of the source backing is kosher. Hard to say. Groovy stuff, regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Many thanks! I did the level tweaks you suggested and they sounded good to me. I also eased up on the limiter a little - I originally pushed the limiter as hard as I could before it started to deteriorate in my ears, which apparently was a bit much, so I lowered it just in case. Final version If anyone's interested in the Renoise project file, grab it here. Got to write that sub e-mail now.. --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 it's awesome man! Very well-done! I love the intro and all the groove.... but I think that the lead is very loud for me... The lead and the synths spinning in the pan. very loud things spinning in the pan confuse me a little bit.. and the song loses with this. It can be your style, but, maybe normalizing the volumes a little bit can let the song more enjoyable. Congratz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eino Keskitalo Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well, you got here before I finished the e-mail. I took down the main lead and the fm/broken bell instrument a little. Thanks! --Eino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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