XZero Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've mentioned this offhandedly in a few other threads, but I was curious what people's opinions are on this topic. DLC: love it or hate it. Personally, I hate it, but let me give the pros and cons so you can see my point: PROS: -Allows you to play more of a game you already enjoy -Cheaper than full-fledged sequels that add little to nothing to the overall package -Accessible; by its very nature, you never have to drive to a store to buy it -Economically advantageous to the developer; DLC, by definition, cannot be sold "used" unless released on a disc CONS: -For DLC available within a very short time after the game launches, it often should have been included to begin with (Mega Man 9 & 10's DLC is just a money-grubbing, greed-induced pile of crap, not because it isn't good, but because there's no reason it shouldn't have been included from the outset) -If developers spend their time working on new missions or worlds, they aren't using that time to create a new engine built on superior technology for a better sequel -Bad for the consumer; say what you want about stores like GameStop and their horrible practices of ripping off the consumer with their trade-in system, but the truth is that for those who only buy games and don't sell them back, there's a certain value to be had in getting a new release for $10-15 less just because you waited until someone to be done with it and trade it in -Bad for collectors; if you collect games, you know what I'm talking about. You have all of the DLC in the world, but it almost makes no difference because there's nothing physical on your shelf. For some people, it doesn't matter. For others, it matters a great deal. -Jacks up the price of games. Here, I'm talking about microtransactions. If you pay $2, you can have this cool sword with +15 damage whereas the sword you can earn early in the game only has +10 damage. So how much does the game cost? Well, now it's $62. But only until I sell you this $4 shield! You can probably think of other pros and cons that I missed, but the money one kills me. Back in the day, whether it was 5 years ago or 25, games were a once and done price deal. You pay for the game and it's all there. Now, you're getting a good, solid 75-85% of a game when you buy it at retail. The rest must be bought separately. Imagine if you bought FFVI, got to the part where Kefka destroys the world by opening the Esper gate thingy, and then to play on to the end, you have to download the rest of it. Whether that's the reality of the situation or not, that's exactly what it feels like and that's why I have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I don't have time to worry about DLC, so if something isn't included in a game, it's something I'm just never going to see. If I play a game and it seems incomplete, I'd probably not finish it and just mail it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 man I sure love paying for things that should have already been in the game at no extra charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusK Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Call me a sucker, I guess. Must be the WoW player in me. I've purchased DLC for a few games. Always games I know I'll be playing long-term, though. Lately I've been passing up DLC I normally would have bought, though. Tough times and all that, not to mention more and more of my money going towards music gear instead. I get the whole "you're not getting the whole game on purchase" argument, because sadly, it's true a lot of the time, though normally not to the degree of the example you gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyanCe Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 sturgeon's law applies to everything. even dlc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaki-LEGEND.sys Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't even understand how the business model for DLC anymore. It just seems to me like a cheap way for devs to recoup dev costs. Or something. I don't fucking know. I don't like it anymore. Could someone actually shed some light on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damned Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I've never paid for DLC, but I have gotten the free stuff that Valve put up for Steam games I have. Also, title looks like "d i c", not D L C. I thought this would be about something very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Splint Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 DLC is the beginning of a very rocky road for gaming IMO. It won't be long until there will be some games where you buy the 'core' of the game (which basically lets you build your character and play the first level or something similar), and then you get to choose which levels/campaigns/NPC quest packages you wish to purchase. "But wait!" they'll cry. "It's a good thing! It makes your experience so much more customizable than ever before!" And it'll be like five bucks a package, and there will be dozens to choose from, so if you want the entire game experience you'd better be ready to fork over some serious cash. What do you mean 'sour grapes'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damned Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 In all likelihood, it would add up to the same amount as a full title would cost. I could see it as being a variable alternative for people that want to play but can't afford the whole game. Get the parts you want, when you want, how you want. But they have to make sure that none of the separate parts are required for anything game--breaking or important. Purely independent and optional sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Splint Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 "Make sure none of the constituents are important to the plot/game outcome?" (Paraphrase) I do NOT have that much trust in proven vampires. But, if it somehow did happen in that sugary-coated way, I'd be more than cool with it. Like you said, it would be an excellent alternative for people who have a hard time affording full titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XZero Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Also, title looks like "d i c", not D L C. I thought this would be about something very different. Yeah, that was a mistake... can someone change it to DLC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damned Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 You can. Just edit the first post, go to Advanced, and it will let you change the title. "Make sure none of the constituents are important to the plot/game outcome?" (Paraphrase) Mostly. What I mean is, the core part of the game has all the required plot, items, characters, whatever, that is needed to complete that part. The optional DLC is not required to complete the core game in any way. You can get them to be part of the overall experience, but the are not required to do so. I guess it's like the optional side quests in RPGs. You don't need to do them, but it can be fun by themselves. Maybe not the best explanation, but I hope you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Splint Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Nah, the explanation was fine the first time. And it would be fine if they did that if they dropped the price of the core down to about thirty or forty dollars for a brand new release. I just don't have that much faith in them. I could even see them selling multiple plot endings (which in a way would be cool) but for the most part could turn into a big pile of poo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XZero Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Nah, the explanation was fine the first time. And it would be fine if they did that if they dropped the price of the core down to about thirty or forty dollars for a brand new release.I just don't have that much faith in them. I could even see them selling multiple plot endings (which in a way would be cool) but for the most part could turn into a big pile of poo. You're playing through Chrono Trigger. Do you want to get the ending by using the bucket? That'll be $5.00. How about any of the other endings? Let's go with another $5.00 each. All of a sudden that novelty of multiple endings fades pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygecko Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 As someone who has been used to post-release content for PC games since the 90's, after the DLC method was established I think that the value for what you pay for has gone completely down the shitter. Small things, like a couple of new multiplayer maps and the likes, would typically be distributed for free separetely or included in a patch. If a more substantial amount of content was created it would be sold as an expansion pack for a decent price like $19-$29. Today we get things like the CoD map packs, 4 (where 2 of them are recycled from the previous game) for $15. There are a few developers that haven't lowered the bar for their customers like Valve and Epic (barring Gears of War, but that's Microsoft's decision, not theirs). The Titan Pack for UT3 included a pretty generous amount of new maps and new game modes without costing a dime, as is the tradition with UT bonus packs. It was released on PC and PS3, but MS wouldn't have any of that on the 360. If it was released as paid DLC it would probably be priced at around $49 or something. Got to keep the XBL userbase blissfully ignorant, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I agree with most if not all the cons of DLC but also appreciate the benefits they bring. Overall I'm kinda whatever about the whole situation. What really gets me boiling is how rushed out games are these days for PC. Developers throw a game out for release and it's filled with bugs that make the game unplayable for a vast majority of players. And it's the mentality of oh we'll just fix it later that makes game companies look like they don't care about the community and just care about money. At least DLC adds something to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 You're playing through Chrono Trigger. Do you want to get the ending by using the bucket? That'll be $5.00. How about any of the other endings? Let's go with another $5.00 each. All of a sudden that novelty of multiple endings fades pretty quickly. Unlock Frog and Magus as playable characters with this $10 DLC pack! Or 800MSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thephoenix Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 DLC, while great in theory, was horribly executed. Still, most gamers will drop money on it, which will make it appear to be a successful business tactic, and it just continues to get worse. The idea of DLC was like getting expansion packs for PC games (as some have already mentioned). For the longest time, it was impossible for games to get additional content that PC gamers would be able to get. DLC was meant as a step to correct that, and in theory, was a great idea. Then game companies realized something...they could sell half a game, then put up the rest as DLC, extending the deadline for the games creative base and effectively charging you upwards of 2x the amount you'd normally pay for a single game. Fable 2 is one of the biggest propagators of this, by releasing that was far too short for a game of it's calibur, instead relying on what was originally going to be 6 episodic DLCs. Other games release small add-on packs at insane prices, but again, gamers want everything they can get. Sadly, this has driven the gaming devs to continue this practice, and as a few have said, it's only going to get worse. More and more, DLC becomes more expensive while offering less gameplay. Fallout 3 especially had this issue. $10 for DLC able to be beaten completely in 3 hours is not worth the price you pay, but most wont know that until AFTER they have bought the content. However, there are some companies that go well out of their way to do DLC right. Gearbox is one I will forever praise for this. Their Borderlands DLC (with the exception of Mad Moxxi's Underdome, which they openly admit was a good idea gone bad) added 15-20+ hours of gameplay, if not more, for each pack. General Knoxx's Secret Armory could technically be it's own game with the amount of things that become available. If you own all 3 "playable" DLC (as Moxxi's was more of an arena, less of a story driven DLC), you could easily rack up 50-60 more hours of gameplay for a single playthrough. Go through both playthroughs and you're looking at 100+ hours. Their DLCs also go for the same price as the "map packs" released by most FPS game devs. I wanted DLC to work. It was a great idea that, sadly, companies like Activision and EA found out could be used as way to squeeze money out of every player of the game...and when the big dogs do it, it's hard for the smaller companies to not be forced to go the same route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 To me, DLC is the autotune to the gaming world... it should have never been invented. When new maps, characters, weapons and such were made, unless there was a substantial amount to warrant putting it all together and calling it an expansion, it was just given out for free. UT3's Titan Pack, episode IV of Doom, the insane amount of planes added to IL2 Sturmovik... things that developers made and just gave to players, even though it took quite a while to create or pull together. These days? These days, you get charged for an extra spaceship type in Raiden IV, a small section of map in some railroad simulator, side quests that take maybe two hours to complete in an RPG or FPS... things that were free in patches just 10 years ago. Some might say it's to get back development costs, but considering that the games are priced to already do that (assuming the game's good and sells), it's just a money grab... plain and simple. And of course, let's not forget that DLC stands a rather high chance of having been planned to be a part of the game in the beginning, but was held back for DLC purposes. Anyone remember Dragon Age: Origins and the little spot that Penny Arcade dug into its creators about? Yeah, that kind of thing. With DLC that comes out so close to launch day, there's no way in hell it's not a money grab... after you've already paid $50-$80+ for the game. The fact that DLC is still around is ridiculous. The fact that companies keep trying to milk even more cash from gamers for things that should be free in a patch because it's so minimal, is a disgrace. And the fact there are people who snatch that DLC up so fast that it keeps the companies making it, is a disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XZero Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 As anti-DLC as I am, I'm the first to admit that the Borderlands DLC was VERY good, and totally worth it. But Gearbox did several things right (only looking at Zombie Ned, Knoxx, and Claptrap): (1) they included tons of extra, post-game content that obviously was not part of the main game and just excised so it could be released incrementally later (2) between the 3 main story-based ones, it was a $30 sequel in itself (3) they used it to correct a common complaint about the main storyline, that it took itself too seriously while the characters in the world generally didn't. The stories in those 3 were silly in a good way and far more enjoyable than the main hunt for the Vault Notice anything about this list? They didn't take something out of the game and sell it separately, they didn't just give 4 new maps and call it a day, and they actually improved upon the existing game with the DLC. This, ladies and gentlemen, is DLC done right. I can only think of 2 other scenarios where DLC would be appropriate. First, in annual sports games, release a game once every 2 or 3 years and in the interim, release DLC updates for the new season. Cut down on all the Maddens flooding the stores. Second, in music games, sell 2 versions of the game disc. One is $60 and has 75 preloaded songs (plus the obligatory instrument sets at higher prices because that's oh-so-necessary). The other is a disc with just the basics of the game, no songs, and a points card allowing you to download 75 songs of your choice from their servers, with 1000s of options. As a person who hates rap and hip hop, I can remove all traces of it from Guitar Hero and only focus on 70s and 80s rock, and the opposite would be true of a person who hates rock and loves rap and hip hop. What all 3 of these proposed uses for DLC have in common is that they are consumer-friendly, while simultaneously generating decent amounts of money for the companies. Both sides win out, rather than one or the other gaining the advantage. DLC is about the companies gaining the advantage and taking advantage of the consumer in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Briggs Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 autotune should have never been invented I'll kill you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Splint Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 You're playing through Chrono Trigger. Do you want to get the ending by using the bucket? That'll be $5.00. How about any of the other endings? Let's go with another $5.00 each. All of a sudden that novelty of multiple endings fades pretty quickly. Exactly. The only possibility that would have the potential to be cool would be to have three or four endings (including their own separate final stages/levels) that are epic in their own right and then let the consumer pay for the one they like most. If they want to buy all of them that's their deal. Example: (Mass Effect Spoiler Alert) Instead of going through the Citadel and fighting Saren at the end, you could somehow break into Sovereign and fight his brain or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coop Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'll kill you Sorry bro, but it sounds like Stephen Hawkings' greatest hits. If someone needs it to fix their singing, then they need to just stop singing, get better, or simply accept their voice as it is. We'll all know who can and can't sing the moment they step on stage, so they may as well stop trying to hide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Briggs Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Sorry bro, but it sounds like Stephen Hawkings' greatest hits. ok I admittedly lol'd at that you know, it's not always a lack of talent or ability that begets obvious autotuning. some of us happen to think that it sounds pretty darn cool and see it as a stylistic modification with a lot of fun possibilities not to mention pitch correction is used on virtually every single instrument and vocal track nowadays I'm of the mindset that if you're going to make my music sound better than it actually is, fuck it, I'm totally down with that oh, blah blah blah something on-topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygecko Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ever found yourself getting annoyed by a long square/saw lead note without any vibrato at all? That's what autotune feels like in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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