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Sony vs. Everyone - Tales of Exploits, Lawyers, Hackers, and Houseraids

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I disagree to a certain extent, actually. Certain fundamental things, like drivers, cpu service code, and BIOS-style things should be made open for public knowledge and tinkering. Other things, such as their interface, should only have a moderately open policy. There is a line that needs to be drawn between openness and giving stuff away, it's just that right now some "hackers" are fighting for what they morally should have access to, while other "hackers" are trying to access stuff they do not. Things, like the private key, do not belong in the hands of the public. Having the ability to run a Linux kernel that has access to all 8 cores and the gpu is something that should.

It's curious to consider a private key in the comparative context of 'someone's Brownie recipe'. If you were able to figure out the recipe by tasting it and discerning the ingredients, are you stealing it as though you took the page out of that person's recipe book.

When does figuring out how someone does something become an 'immoral act of theft'. It's a fascinating philosophical question.

PS I agree with a lot of what JackKieser says in this thread.

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Maybe if people paid full prices for games, this would've never happened.

Herp Derp

Has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about, Dave. There is a clear distinction between "Hackers" and "Pirates". Nobody is discussing pirating as the focus here, merely the hacking. The price of games has no point here whatsoever, though piracy falls in line with what hackers can enable.

I bought my PS3 with the mindset that I could, if I wanted to, run Linux on it. I actually did that for about 2 weeks while my computer was down and I was waiting on a new motherboard. It didn't run that great, but at least it RAN. Now I don't even have that optinon, no matter how capable the machine may be of running it, nor how capable people may be of programming for it.

I understand the need to not post the easy-bake directions for making shit like an atomic bomb. Sony needs to protect its assets. When it comes to punishing the customer because of something that is assumed is done for "piracy", then that's wrong.

Hacking and reverse-engineering is a method of learning and discovery. People need to begin understanding the difference between a hacker, a pirate, and a cheater.

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I think that was more of a comment aimed at someone else than the subject at hand.

Brush, yous trollin' or somethin'?

Yeah, I am trolling. It is all I got!

The comment itself is aimed at piracy at large. Not a fan of it, unless it ends up swaying someone to buy the product, but out of sheer laziness, I honestly don't think that happens as much as some folks hope for.

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Brushfire never has any idea what hes talking about! Whats new? =P

Actually, Sony isn't bothering to go after the people doing any pirating stuff as far as I know, maybe because most dont live in countries that they can do anything about? Or they are just more anonymous?

GeoHotz and graf_chokolo specifically are just cracking the system open, Geo specifically coded his stuff to be useless to pirates (though they figured out ways around it as usual) and graf was making a better Linux/OtherOS with full Cell access and graphics acceleration. BUT he had released some decryption tools (for getting it working) and thats probably what Sony is huffing and puffing about.

Neither one of these fine gentlemen have anything to do with piracy, yet they are being heavily attacked by Sony

If Sony had not decided to continuously remove features from the PS3, especially OtherOS, or gave OtherOS full access instead of the terrible limitations provided, none of this would of ever of happened. The worst thing they would of had to of dealt with is the PSJailbreak (a commercial product mostly aimed for "backups" that is unrelated to the Linux hackers) and its Open Source kin (PSGroove, etc), which are still around actually

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What's hilarious is that Sony won't even be able to ban hackers from PSN soon.


Undeterred by Sony's swift moves to ban jailbroken PS3s from its network, Destructoid reports that the latest update to the PS3 jailbreak not only lets you unban yourself, but also ban other users, should you be so evil; although they'd need access to that console's ID, which would have to be obtained from a refurb warehouse/secondhand seller or willingly given up by an idiot.


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Hmmm... let's see... single person with donated legal fees versus multinational legal department with cash reserves to drag this out for years (which might be in their best interests, as it would hold up the actions of the guy suing them and drain his funds).

Yeah, donations or not, I don't think he's going to be able to afford any kind of long-term fight. Even if he won the first rounds in court, Sony will just appeal every time and then go through it again and again.

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Well, he could just ask for more donations if they try again! I don't think the legal system is going to like a corporation badgering a civilian if they've been proven in court innocent once though. We'll see I guess. I dont even know why its gone THIS far actually, Sony is putting lies into their dockets which have been proven false. Why are they allowed to lie to make a case against someone?

Besides, I'm sure we're about due for more DCMA exceptions being added into law, and the EFF is behind GeoHotz and all the other jailbreaking/hacking teams... I wouldn't be suprised if gaming consoles get added because of this

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I think you guys are really overestimating the guy's chances here. Sony isn't some little push-over, they've been through stuff like this before and know what to do. They have the people, the time, the skill and the resources to make this a very messy, expensive fight for Geohot and his backers.

Then you have all the times that the little guy, while in the right, was screwed in court by a much bigger, more experienced and more ruthless opponent. It sucks, but the reality is that it happens a lot more than not.

Everyone loves the idea about the big, mean corporations getting their just deserts, but frankly, it doesn't happen very often, and for a reason. They don't let it.

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I just fail to see why people think he's innocent and think he has a chance in this.

This is what George Hotz is being sued for.

* Violating the DMCA

* Violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act

* Contributory copyright infringement

* Violations of the California Comprehensive Computer Data Access & Fraud Act

* Breach of contract

* Tortious interference with contractual relations

* Common law misappropriation

* Trespass

According to the law you can be held liable for being negligent. Meaning that regardless of the fact your work had no personal intention for being used illegally you still understood the ramifications of your actions.

Fact is George Hotz knew what could have happened and it did. He isn't exempt from fault.

Thus is the reason he needs a lawyer, donations, and all the help in the world.

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