superjoe30 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Surely I'm not the first person to think of this. Does it exist yet? Or should I create it and start rolling in the dough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modus Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't know why you would publicly share such a genius idea. I'll get to work on this right away. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eilios Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 www.kvraudio.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjoe30 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 KVR Audio doesn't: 1. Keep track of what you own. 2. Automatically install it for you. (think about how long it takes to set up your studio on a new computer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 KVRAudio doesn't require you to be online when you use the stuff you download, either. That's really the biggest problem with Steam, that and the online problems where either you or they have a connection problem and you can't play. And maybe the worry that if the service at some point ends up bankrupt all your purchases are gone. So the DRM function Steam has would be a bit dangerous to use. Without the DRM, I don't quite see why that many developers would be interested when KVR, audiomidi, and other sites already provide/sell their products. Having the service do all the installation is a good idea tho, it'd make stuff a lot easier. If it also did preset handling, you wouldn't have to worry about losing your custom patches either. That, imo, is one of the better parts of this idea. What to do about legally questionable free/custom samples is another matter, and might complicate things depending on much the users use those. Not a bad idea, you just gotta figure that stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The thing about this is that not every VST installs the same way. Some of them you drag and drop a .dll to your VST folder, and some would take you through an installation process to help you decide what components to install. It would be hard to create a flexible service that can handle all of these different installation methods and do it for you. The most it could do is download a file for you and you install it yourself. It is a good idea, but I'm sure you understand that it's magnitudes harder than video games (because everything is different unlike with PC games). As far keeping track of what we own, it's a bit ludicrous to suggest we can't do it ourself or keep our own back ups. Unless you could work around the installation thing, it's no easier than keeping your installation DVD's or exe's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDRKirby(ISQ) Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 easily handling integration of VSTs across different computers (and/or different host programs) would be something to aim for if you were to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Native Instruments Reaktor 3 came with a really amazing machine that emulated steam noises, wood wind instruments, etc, called Steampipe. I'm sure there are better versions now in the new version. Anyway steam sounds are really easy to make with white noise, clever filtering/eq and lots of reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Native Instruments Reaktor 3 came with a really amazing machine that emulated steam noises, wood wind instruments, etc, called Steampipe. I'm sure there are better versions now in the new version.Anyway steam sounds are really easy to make with white noise, clever filtering/eq and lots of reverb. He's not talking about real STEAM, he's talking about a service of online distribution of VST's similar to Valve's PC Game store called STEAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Native Instruments Reaktor 3 came with a really amazing machine that emulated steam noises, wood wind instruments, etc, called Steampipe. I'm sure there are better versions now in the new version.Anyway steam sounds are really easy to make with white noise, clever filtering/eq and lots of reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The thing about this is that not every VST installs the same way. Some of them you drag and drop a .dll to your VST folder, and some would take you through an installation process to help you decide what components to install. It would be hard to create a flexible service that can handle all of these different installation methods and do it for you. The most it could do is download a file for you and you install it yourself. You do realize that Steam doesn't just download game content to your hard drive and then run the product's installer? For items released on multiple CDs or DVDs, that would get particularly hard. I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, especially since the content doesn't install to the same folder that it would if you buy the standalone version. Doing this with plugins wouldn't be any harder. For plugins that are simply a DLL file, it would be trivial to put that in the right folder. It is a good idea, but I'm sure you understand that it's magnitudes harder than video games (because everything is different unlike with PC games). PC games are hardly all the same either when it comes to installers. As for the original idea, I can't see it being really successful for the following reasons. 1) Copy protection schemes can be very different with plugins than with video games, especially plugins that require iLok or eLicenser hardware or call home to authorize with various proprietary services (eg. using the Native Instruments Service Center to authorize the product and tie it to your NI account). 2) Downloading plugins with sample libraries (eg. the ones that take all the time to reinstall) would be a pain and would take forever (not to mention bandwidth caps): would you rather download the ~50GB EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold or install it from the CDs? 3) The people with the big budgets to spend on sample libraries and plugins also often have multiple computers, none of which ever go online. Supporting some kind of "Download everything on one computer and package things to be distributed to other computers across your network" would be even harder. 4) Many plugins are distributed online only or primarily online. Going through a service similar to Steam would introduce a middleman that wouldn't otherwise be there, so the developers would get less per sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 PC games are hardly all the same either when it comes to installers. At least PC Games work generally the same. VST's send sample content and patches to different locations (sometimes even from each other) so reconfiguring EVERY EFFIN VST to work with this system would be a huge project that no one would feel like working on. Also, there's the thing about launching these if you DID change them. Steam games you NEED STEAM to run the games for the game to understand how to be run, so you would also have to reconfigure all the DAW's to comply with this VSTeam system because they all currently handle VST's differently. Or you would make the service itself a VST to be plugged into a DAW to handle the VST's. Fruity Wrapper inside of Fruity Wrapper, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 At least PC Games work generally the same. VST's send sample content and patches to different locations (sometimes even from each other) so reconfiguring EVERY EFFIN VST to work with this system would be a huge project that no one would feel like working on. Also, there's the thing about launching these if you DID change them. Steam games you NEED STEAM to run the games for the game to understand how to be run, so you would also have to reconfigure all the DAW's to comply with this VSTeam system because they all currently handle VST's differently. Or you would make the service itself a VST to be plugged into a DAW to handle the VST's. Fruity Wrapper inside of Fruity Wrapper, anyone? That last thing you said would be really interesting Neblix; especially with the parameters and everything xD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 That last thing you said would be really interesting Neblix; especially with the parameters and everything xD. Actually, I think it's just a matter of conserving MIDI from wrapper to wrapper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcana Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 4) Many plugins are distributed online only or primarily online. Going through a service similar to Steam would introduce a middleman that wouldn't otherwise be there, so the developers would get less per sale. However this is the benefit of an online distribution system - rather than having to go through tons of different online stores, you have a one-stop shop. And this seems like it would benefit the hobbyist much more than a commercial consumer who's making hundreds of thousands from music. Unlike games, though, the volume for VSTs probably isn't nearly as high. But, music production on the computer is rising in popularity too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eilios Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The closest thing you can probably do for this is register some form of cloud storage and go from there. Making a dedicated service for VSTs would be way too much work, considering that they come from all over the world, some just randomly disappear off the internet, and there are so many versions on so many different sites that finding the current version is a total headache. Plus, it would be pretty hard to get the major companies on-board. The only way this could plausibly happen if Native Instruments or some other major music company started it off, otherwise you wouldn't have enough impact, nor the resources to make this realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 some just randomly disappear off the internet, and there are so many versions on so many different sites that finding the current version is a total headache. Hmm well on the flip side, it could weed out any of the vsts not worth getting. Any author not willing to keep updates could mean that not enough people cared enough about that vst. And having servers dedicated to a vst distribution service wouldn't be that bad. I don't think there's that many vsts out there that we would need databases and stuff the size of facebook and plus the game service that they host distribute games that I'm sure are much larger than any vst out there. I think a steam for vsts would be a good idea. A way to organize your vsts with a good filtration system to pick through your assortment; hell, I think all the authorization stuff would be way more manageable that way as well. Gotta get more digitally organized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eilios Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hmm well on the flip side, it could weed out any of the vsts not worth getting. Any author not willing to keep updates could mean that not enough people cared enough about that vst. Lofi Plus was taken off the internet. It's still a damn good plugin. And having servers dedicated to a vst distribution service wouldn't be that bad. I don't think there's that many vsts out there that we would need databases and stuff the size of facebook and plus the game service that they host distribute games that I'm sure are much larger than any vst out there. It's harder with cloud service, though. It's not just uploading files and say "here u go download it lol", it's also saving accounts with presets for possibly hundreds of VSTs. And any computer connected to that account will be downloading, regularly saving backups, and more. Cloud services aren't the nicest things for hardware storage. I think a steam for vsts would be a good idea. A way to organize your vsts with a good filtration system to pick through your assortment; hell, I think all the authorization stuff would be way more manageable that way as well. Gotta get more digitally organized. Oh, I don't disagree. Not at all. It would be wonderful if somebody could put it together. It's just not very likely - not enough demand, a lot of work required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The worst part about getting a new computer or reinstalling my OS is installing all my plugins again. Even though I keep all my sample libraries on redundant hard drives (so I basically never have to copy over 500gb+ of data again), authorization is a nightmare. It's guaranteed to take up several days straight, a total waste of time. So while no, I wouldn't necessarily want to download my entire collection of sample libraries when I reinstall my OS, I WOULD like to be able to quickly re-authorize them without having to put in every last DVD and scour my emails for serial numbers or challenge/response keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The worst part about getting a new computer or reinstalling my OS is installing all my plugins again. Even though I keep all my sample libraries on redundant hard drives (so I basically never have to copy over 500gb+ of data again), authorization is a nightmare. It's guaranteed to take up several days straight, a total waste of time. So while no, I wouldn't necessarily want to download my entire collection of sample libraries when I reinstall my OS, I WOULD like to be able to quickly re-authorize them without having to put in every last DVD and scour my emails for serial numbers or challenge/response keys. agreed. i use an image dump of my OS with all keys installed and authorized when i change computers, and invariably i have to go back and re-authorize stuff because it's tied to something stupid like my motherboard MAC instead of my OS key. an online service that handles authorization information would be incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 VST's send sample content and patches to different locations (sometimes even from each other) so reconfiguring EVERY EFFIN VST to work with this system would be a huge project that no one would feel like working on. Also, there's the thing about launching these if you DID change them. Steam games you NEED STEAM to run the games for the game to understand how to be run, so you would also have to reconfigure all the DAW's to comply with this VSTeam system because they all currently handle VST's differently. Or you would make the service itself a VST to be plugged into a DAW to handle the VST's. It's not the DAW that looks for the sample content it's the VST itself. So there is no dilemma in making a DAW comply with a VST steam engine. Every VST has default install locations FYI. The biggest hurdle to code this would be to recode the authorization systems for each participating VST developer. Plus so many small 3rd party developers are on tight budgets they probably wouldn"t be able afford any type of profit sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Plus so many small 3rd party developers are on tight budgets they probably wouldn"t be able afford any type of profit sharing. This, isn't much of an issue. Steam's getting loads of ppl buying games because they're on sale, not to mention what having a marketplace like Steam does to the sale of those games on a more regular basis. Whatever loss of revenue from shared profit is probably quickly made up by increased sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 This, isn't much of an issue. Steam's getting loads of ppl buying games because they're on sale, not to mention what having a marketplace like Steam does to the sale of those games on a more regular basis. Whatever loss of revenue from shared profit is probably quickly made up by increased sales. Your not accounting for the huge difference in the size of the markets between video games and audio software. Plus most audio software companies, including large ones like cakewalk, run on very small thin lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It's not the DAW that looks for the sample content it's the VST itself. So there is no dilemma in making a DAW comply with a VST steam engine. Every VST has default install locations FYI. The biggest hurdle to code this would be to recode the authorization systems for each participating VST developer. Plus so many small 3rd party developers are on tight budgets they probably wouldn"t be able afford any type of profit sharing. I think you should reread what I said, you might've misunderstood. You need Steam to run Steam games because they (the actual games) are configured a bit differently. For VSTeam, it would have to be similar. In other words, you'd need to run this application at the same time as running your DAW in order the authorize these VST's, and in order to authorize them, like you said, is a pain in the rear,. If they wanted to run VSTeam in conjunction with a DAW, it would either be a background service feeding an authorization code for when the DAW opens the VST, or it would have to be an integrated service in the DAW. Thus what I said a few posts ago: a vst that opens vst's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Your not accounting for the huge difference in the size of the markets between video games and audio software. Plus most audio software companies, including large ones like cakewalk, run on very small thin lines. I'm thinking in percentage, so the size of the market isn't a factor. Lose 20% to the marketplace, gain that and possibly more from increased exposure and special sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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