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Brushfire

PSN is Back!!! - LulzSEC hacked by someone else. TROLOLOLOLOL

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hum, so MANY other can companies get hacked and/or are complete morons so its okay if Sony is too? I don't know how that makes it any better honestly :/ .

He's not saying they're 'better,' he's asking people to stop acting like they're worse.

They (or people who have at least claimed to do it) are trying to sell the DB as we speak.

The people who only claimed to do it are selling the DB? Like Zirc said, just because a hundred people claim they've been hit with ID theft, doesn't make it the fault of the PSN breach.

So far I've read that the security firm Sony was using said people had posted CLAIMS of PSN credit card info up on some underground black market forum. I say we wait 'til the officials (the FBI or Homeland, if Sony is so EVIL AND UNTRUSTWORTHY) officially confirm that the actual hackers have actually started divulging actual PSN user credit card info before we start saying they are.

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Oh yeah, I wouldn't suggest claims of ID theft this early are anything but false honestly. There are lots of thieves and opportunists in this world, and I wouldn't doubt they'd claim ID theft just to hop on the bandwagon. Doesn't mean its not something to worry about regardless.

the FBI or Homeland, if Sony is so EVIL AND UNTRUSTWORTHY

Are you are suggesting the FBI/Homeland Security are not evil and are trustworthy?

j/k. maybe

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Oh yeah, I wouldn't suggest claims of ID theft this early are anything but false. Doesn't mean its not something to worry about regardless

Are you are not suggesting the FBI/Homeland Security are not evil and are trustworthy?

come on now

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There is no argument to compare this, there's never been a case of negligence of this size. It's being called the largest info leak in internet history.

http://www.angusgarden.com/?p=68

Oh really?

But seriously, I'll state again, any company or government body can have their databases hacked.

Do we know that Sony's security practices were nonstandard for the data they were handling? I'm assuming the investigating bodies will bring this to light. We can decide what pitchforks to wield then.

Let me also say again that I hope the real culprit(s) of this situation are found and brought to swift justice. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at them. They are why we can't have nice things.

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I'm sorry Zircon, but just because some other company somewhere else in the world screwed up does not make Sony absolved of any negligence or stupidity. Telling us to back off of Sony only makes your statement sound like we are not entitled to care about something that is close to all of us, video games. I will go on caring about what Sony does, as I am a consumer of Sony products. Sure I may be a consumer of these other companies, directly or indirectly, but right now Sony is the topic of discussion and Sony is the one that I know that does have my information and may have not secured it well. It's nice of you to inform us of other companies but I find it more distracting for this discussion than it "puts things in perspective." Also, just because there's a small chance that my information will be used doesn't make me care any less by the fact that SOMEONE's information will be used, whether that be me, someone on OCR, or anyone else.

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I'm sorry Zircon, but just because some other company somewhere else in the world screwed up does not make Sony absolved of any negligence or stupidity. Telling us to back off of Sony only makes your statement sound like we are not entitled to care about something that is close to all of us, video games. I will go on caring about what Sony does, as I am a consumer of Sony products. Sure I may be a consumer of these other companies, directly or indirectly, but right now Sony is the topic of discussion and Sony is the one that I know that does have my information and may have not secured it well. It's nice of you to inform us of other companies but I find it more distracting for this discussion than it "puts things in perspective." Also, just because there's a small chance that my information will be used doesn't make me care any less by the fact that SOMEONE's information will be used, whether that be me, someone on OCR, or anyone else.

I believe everyone can agree that Sony has been neglectful, but the issue is more that within the current context, people are quick to blame Sony and not the hackers who have gotten into their system.

Since Sony has sued George Hotz, people are jumping on them because it's the populist cool thing to do. The old row row fight the powah sentiment is prevalent in this discussion because people do not understand how big corporations work, or how network security works.

Sony assumed that the first layer of their network was uncrackable, and therefore has made a securit mistake. It's bascially the same with the TCP/IP protocol, where the IPy layer assumes that the TCP one was secure, and therefore has all sorts of holes in its security. But you don't see people jumping on whoever invented it (DARPA ?) although there are a lot more hacks caused by this security failure than Sony's.

The reason is context, and people need to be more objective about it.

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"[Hirai's] appearance tomorrow, at 2 p.m. in Japan, is analogous to a head of state speaking directly to citizens in a time of crisis." - Kotaku

Guys, this is BIG DEAL O_O Kotaku said so.

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Speaking of Kotaku, they (along with the rest of the Gawker network) were also the victims of a security breach releasing millions of peoples personal information.

And, just like Sony, lots of people hated them before it happened too.

http://www.dailytech.com/Gawker+Media+Suffers+Massive+Data+Breach+Courtesy+of+Gnosis/article20384.htm

Interesting read. I highly suspect that the PSN hackers have similar reasons for doing what they did (Read the "Why did they do it?" section).

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I'm sorry Zircon, but just because some other company somewhere else in the world screwed up does not make Sony absolved of any negligence or stupidity. Telling us to back off of Sony only makes your statement sound like we are not entitled to care about something that is close to all of us, video games. I will go on caring about what Sony does, as I am a consumer of Sony products. Sure I may be a consumer of these other companies, directly or indirectly, but right now Sony is the topic of discussion and Sony is the one that I know that does have my information and may have not secured it well. It's nice of you to inform us of other companies but I find it more distracting for this discussion than it "puts things in perspective." Also, just because there's a small chance that my information will be used doesn't make me care any less by the fact that SOMEONE's information will be used, whether that be me, someone on OCR, or anyone else.

I'm not saying nobody should care. I'm pointing out that people are not being objective - eg. they are acting like hypocrites, and/or have double standards about the situation.

1. "Sony deserves this", "Serves them right", "That's what they get", etc. How does "Sony" as a whole deserve this? What people apparently don't realize is that Sony has 167,000 employees across the world split into a huge number of businesses and departments. The hackers that did this are hurting Sony as a whole (and their families). But the actions that make people mad at Sony are maybe the responsibility of 0.01% of their workforce, or less, and ANYBODY higher up is not going to suffer from this. They all have golden parachutes and are making money hand over fist anyway.

Simply put, if Sony gets sued and/or loses a huge sum of money, there are going to be a lot of people paying for that who had NOTHING to do with this situation. At all. And the people (eg. legal) that were involved with GeoHotz et al. will most likely be unaffected. Even if a couple people toward the top got fired (doubtful), they will be crying all the way to the bank as they retire on their multi-million dollar savings account, premium health insurance and severance packages. Meanwhile, people at the bottom suffer. Good job, hackers! You really showed them!

2. If you realize that identity theft/data leaks has occurred and continues to occur at major institutions and businesses worldwide (and I can guarantee that a sizable percentage of those complaining have had their info compromised before in this manner) but you haven't ever complained about it until now, that's called a double standard.

What I'm saying, frankly, is that the majority of people commenting on this issue are childish and unreasonable. "Sony" is not some monolithic entity consisting of a dozen cartoon villain board members sitting in a room deciding that they're not going to update PSN security so they can buy another yacht instead. You have no idea what the structure of Sony is, who was responsible for network security, or even what kind of security they had. None of that information is available. But instead of admitting this, people would rather just speculate wildly and assume the very worst. How is that at all reasonable or logical?

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What I'm saying, frankly, is that the majority of people commenting on this issue are childish and unreasonable. "Sony" is not some monolithic entity consisting of a dozen cartoon villain board members sitting in a room deciding that they're not going to update PSN security so they can buy another yacht instead.

1234895851-cartoon-jameson-2135-300x225.jpg

When I searched for "Sony Cartoon Villian Board", this is what I got.

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And the people (eg. legal) that were involved with GeoHotz et al. will most likely be unaffected.

geohot had nothing to do with this. He hacked his PS3 hardware he bought, to rightfully install his own software. He did not hack into Sony's network and illegally steal a database. Completely unrelated. Why SHOULD he affected?

"Sony" is not some monolithic entity consisting of a dozen cartoon villain board members sitting in a room deciding that they're not going to update PSN security so they can buy another yacht instead

The alternative is to picture them as saints who did everything they could, yet do you have evidence of that? The later is more than likely the truth, as most corporations prefer profits over making the right decision. Just look how Sony handles all their patent suits against them, or handles ANYTHING really. Their pattern of behavior does not bode well. They have been lying and doing the wrong thing pretty much their entire history. Why feel the need to defend this company?

Also not cartoon villains? Do you have PROOF? I have proof otherwise: kaz_hirai_laughing-300x220.jpg

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i justtook a poop in mey pee

geohot had nothing to do with this. He hacked his PS3 hardware he bought, to rightfully install his own software. He did not hack into Sony's network and illegally steal a database. Completely unrelated. Why SHOULD he affected?

Can you read? I said the people (legal) involved with GeoHotz. eg. the people that were involved with prosecuting him, on Sony's end. Those are the people we all hate, right? None of this is going to affect them. Nobody at Sony is going to wag their fingers at the legal team and say "Shame on you for causing this!" That's pure fantasy. Not going to happen.

The alternative is to picture them as saints who did everything they could, yet do you have evidence of that? The later is more than likely the truth, as most corporations prefer profits over making the right decision.

How about - this is just a crazy thought, bear with me here - base your opinion on actual facts, and don't assume anything?

Just look how Sony handles all their patent suits against them, or handles ANYTHING really. Their pattern of behavior does not bode well. They have been lying and doing the wrong thing pretty much their entire history. Why feel the need to defend this company?

Statements like this are exactly why I'm saying gamers are a bunch of children that I'm embarrassed to be associated with. Sony has been making the wrong decisions "pretty much their entire history"? Oh, really, so they've made all poor decisions since 1946? I guess the CD, floppy disk, MiniDisc, miniDV, DVD, Memory Stick and Blu Ray were all terrible technologies and bad decisions. Clearly their efforts to improve their environmental ranking from #14 to #6 was stupid and a waste. Obviously the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 were bad consoles with bad formats.

No. Sony is, as I said, a massive company with many divisions. Take the Rootkit debacle. Terrible, right? Well, that was Sony BMG/Sony Pictures. The people involved with that have nothing to do with the people involved with the PlayStation brand. That idea originated from within Sony BMG/Sony Pictures, not from headquarters in Japan. Saying "the company" has a history of bad decisions is meaningless. Which division?

Edit: Looks like details about the breach have now come out. And, as I said, people in this thread were just making shit up. The user/CC# information was in fact encrypted. Verified by Wells Fargo, American Express & MasterCard who haven't detected any unauthorized activity on CCs tied to PSN accounts. Etc.

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Oh, I guess I misread all those et al and legal things you had in there. I honestly have no idea where the legal part is coming in at. But yeah the legal team has nothing to do with their security. I would HOPE they wouldn't. But both legal and security would of been taking orders from higher up. I don't care for the company as a whole . Or any big mega corporations for that matter. It doesn't matter which "part" of Sony did what, they are all probably doing something wrong somewhere somehow

Statements like this are exactly why I'm saying gamers are a bunch of children that I'm embarrassed to be associated with.

Wow thats a bit harsh...

As far as formats: Beta Max, Memory Stick, MiniDisc, and yes I'd even say BluRay not good formats and/or did not succeed. Have you seen anything but Sony products even use some of those more irregular ones? Sony just likes making things proprietary so they get more money, but its not exactly good for the consumer or anybody else.

PS2 was a TERRIBLY designed console. Most people in the industry know that. PS3 is better, but isnt as well designed as it could of been. And they completely lied about both consoles abilities, far more on the PS2 than the PS3 though.

Sony themselves said the user information (not CC) was unencrypted, so its odd now they are saying it was. Its odd they would give false information in their own press releases.

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You are all dancing around the question that is truly important.

Is Ken Kutagari at a titty bar?

Also, good to know no CC info got out. Still they got Privacy Act stuff though. Rather annoying will my emails be.

I just finally stopped getting breast enhancement emails, too.

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PS2 was a TERRIBLY designed console. Most people in the industry know that. PS3 isn't that much better.

For such "terrible consoles" they have a good, if not terrific, library of games imo; exclusive or not. Even now the PS2 is still being sold, if barely noticeable, these days.

Just play good games solidly, provide some multimedia use, as well as an online store for new/extra content, that's more than enough that most would ask in a game console imo.

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... so tired of all the trolls that come out of the woodwork during these things.

Well, hopefully everything will be cleared up (and more secure) later this week.

I've been going around to all my accounts changing passwords and security questions/answers. How very very annoying. And now I have to watch my credit card statements.... I'm lazy and this is a pain in the ass. Haha.

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I can't believe that is the best they can do.

Had it just been the service down and no extra problems like personal info being leaked, I would say that is nice of them, but after all that happened and the scares that has been going on, plus really seems a bit....small.

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No. Sony is, as I said, a massive company with many divisions. Take the Rootkit debacle. Terrible, right? Well, that was Sony BMG/Sony Pictures. The people involved with that have nothing to do with the people involved with the PlayStation brand. That idea originated from within Sony BMG/Sony Pictures, not from headquarters in Japan. Saying "the company" has a history of bad decisions is meaningless. Which division?

when you have unusually shady behavior happening in multiple divisions of the same company, it begs the question of whether or not the leadership overall is at least partly responsible. seems like pretty typical bureaucratic shirking of responsibility when they have this many incidents and it's apparently never the superiors' fault. maybe it isn't directly, but what kind of operation are they running exactly?

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