Making basic song structure all in one day

[erineclipse]

a couple of online friends and I were discussing music production one day, and they said they complete the basic song outline all in one day. They also said, that's what the "pro's" do and said Bach and Beethoven, etc. did the same. They claimed that if everything isn't done in one day you will lose the song idea and the song will sound bad.

what are you thoughts. do you think that great songs are made in one day, or it's just as possible to make great songs made over the span of several days?

[Jamphibious]

Doing a song all in one day can either be a blessing or a curse, really. It really depends.

I recently did a compo where you have 2 hours to make a song, and it just happened to be one of the better songs I've produced. However, if you work on a song for too long at one time your ears could get tired and you might start missing things and your song might not turn out well. Quite often its good to take breaks in between music making sessions to give your ears a rest.

Writing a song over many days is certainly possible, and it gives you time to really flesh things out and create a finely polished product. However, I find that you can sometime lose the inspiration for a song if you take too long working on it. I've personally started a lot of songs and many go unfinished simple because I take too much time to get back to them, or I just can't think of what I wanted to do with the song when I do come back to it. But it really depends on the person, everyone has their own preferences when it comes to writing and producing music. Find what works for you.

[Calum]

I don't think looking back to Bach and Beethoven is very helpful. They were living in a time so ridiculously different to ours and were writing music for a profession, which most of us aren't. Expecting to compose as "fast" as them (who said that was a good thing) will just destroy your confidence - not because they are infinitely better composers but simply because they lived in a completely different time with different preoccupations.

I agree that you can lose focus after a day or so but there are advantages of spreading out the work.

But I would never write off a song because i didn't get down it's overall structure within a day.

[Dissidia]

I heard in an interview that it took Christopher Tin a month to make Baba Yetu. I don't know if he had the song structure already in his mind. But it did sound like from the interview that he spent alot of time getting the "chorus" main part down. Like a week or something. He was on nitro game injection if you are curious about it.

[SnappleMan]

Everything I do is done withing a day or two. Mainly because the more time I spend on something, the less and less "done" it gets. I get tired of my own music very quickly.

[Moseph]

I find it's mostly a workflow thing rather than a quality-level thing. I like to have a general outline of what I'm doing before I even sit down at the computer to start a project -- not because the project will necessarily ultimately turn out better that way but because I work much more efficiently when I've already settled on the big picture and can focus mainly on details when I'm dragging notes around in the sequencer. It's easier to sketch large-scale ideas on paper, where you can take notational shortcuts, and it's easier to do detail work in a DAW, where you can undo infinitely and let the computer play things for you.

I tend to think it's best to assign the compositional task to the medium that best supports it and to order these tasks so that one won't distract you from another. I find the result of this isn't necessarily that it's a "better" piece of music, but that it gets finished a hell of a lot faster.

[Rozovian]

If I don't get the arrangement done enough within the first few days, the track will probably never be finished. Some of my best tracks have been made in less than a week, and others have usually had at least the most important bits completed within one.

Production si something you can fiddle with a lot, but the basic structure is usually best to get done asap. Depending on what you mean by that, it could mean a few vertical stacks of writing, or a single horizontal one, or whatever.

[zircon]

There's no right way to do things when it comes to songwriting or composition. It doesn't matter what professional X does or doesn't do. For example, some people prefer to sketch songs out first and then fill out the parts over time. Other people (like me) write songs in a linear manner. When I finish the last note of the song, the whole thing is 99% done on the production end too.

[Fishy]

I tend to sketch my arrangements out in simple semi-produced forms (enough to know it will eventually sound epic) and then go back over elements one by one. The sketches probably takes a day or two depending on the complexity/length. The rest can take hours to a few days, depends how much of a ridiculous balancing act I've given myself. It does take longer then most people by the sounds of it but I think it pays of for the way I work.

It's definitely the best way to piece together a long arrangement and make sure it has contour and direction imo. I often start simultaneously from the start and the middle or end, and work outwards to connect them.

[mickomoo]

I definitely hear every track in my head, at least the first 30 seconds, before I go about recording. My problem is more specifically when I begin to record, I start to loose my initial vision. I still retain the gist of what I initially heard though. Personally I kinda enjoy not adhering to a strict structure as experimentation and serendipity tend to result in interesting results. Admittedly that does show in my work, lol. But I'm a beginner so I'm not going to be too harsh on myself.

[Esker]

As a non-musician that try music production sometimes I can say that what you said is VERY reasonable.

I don't know how those things works for musician.

[OverCoat]

Depending on what music-related job you want, you're gonna want to learn how to complete full songs in 1-2 hours or less if you're slaving away for a videogame company, but if you're on a record deal just selling original music or something you probably have a little more leeway [like anyone gets record deals anymore].

[SnappleMan]

1-2 hours is a gross exaggeration. That's only the case when you've been procrastinating the entire day or made the mistake of taking on more work than you should.

[ambinate]

1-2 hours is a gross exaggeration. That's only the case when you've been procrastinating the entire day or made the mistake of taking on more work than you should.

this is a little reassuring to hear.

i try to go into songs with a basic structure in mind, that way i'm not just fucking around for a few hours trying to come up with something. after i get some actual music written, though, i don't necessarily adhere to the ideas i went in with. it's just helpful to have a loose framework initially for me. sometimes i'll have a whole thing planned out in a few hours, but some songs will take days or weeks until i get something more final figured out. i tend to write pretty linearly, so even if i have some structural ideas for the end of a song, i won't usually fill in any details until i've written the rest.

i think everyone approaches this differently so there's no right or wrong answer. but comparisons to bach or beethoven are kind of weird because of a bunch of reasons, like the fact that they often wrote in (or in variations of) established, fairly rigid forms. also, they were way fucking better than most of us.

[OverCoat]

1-2 hours is a gross exaggeration. That's only the case when you've been procrastinating the entire day or made the mistake of taking on more work than you should.

haha maybe I talk to virt too much then probably says more about him

[SnappleMan]

haha maybe I talk to virt too much then probably says more about him

Dude Kaufman is a fucking maniac.

[big giant circles]

haha maybe I talk to virt too much then probably says more about him

Jake doesn't count because he is a robot and cranks out epic music faster than the rest of us can eat lunch.

[erineclipse]

my problem is i have something in my head, but i have no idea what instrument i need or where i could get it, usually because its not in the preset library or is not free, or is just hard to find, or i dont know the name of it, or it is a layer and i dont know what combination of instruments i should use.

also my knowledge of theory is not to the point where i cant just translate immediately, usually when i write it down on PC the emotions change due to timber, incorrect key, incorrect notes, and temporal anomalies. most importantly

i begin to lose my initial vision

i get bored of the song in my head and it transforms into something else on paper...

[ectogemia]

my problem is i have something in my head, but i have no idea what instrument i need or where i could get it, usually because its not in the preset library or is not free, or is just hard to find, or i dont know the name of it, or it is a layer and i dont know what combination of instruments i should use.

also my knowledge of theory is not to the point where i cant just translate immediately, usually when i write it down on PC the emotions change due to timber, incorrect key, incorrect notes, and temporal anomalies. most importantly i get bored of the song in my head and it transforms into something else on paper...

Welcome to being a newb you're not alone.

What's helped me the most is learning piano and improving as much as possible. I've gotten very good at translating what's in my head into sound, but piano improv won't help you create the right timbre for that sound. That and combining those timbres to get the sound I want is my major hangup at this point. And arranging... fuck arranging. That really just doesn't come naturally for me one bit.

Also, try playing by ear what you hear in some of your favorite video game themes. Figure out the melody, then figure out the chords, or at least the root note of each chord. Then, you can use the chords or roots to improvise your own melody or make variations of the original. Get good at this, and writing leads will become second nature.

And about the theory, you don't need to know everything, but knowing basics like rhythm, key signatures, time signatures, chords, harmony, and intervals is essential. Just bite the bullet and learn em

[erineclipse]

Welcome to being a newb you're not alone.

What's helped me the most is learning piano and improving as much as possible. I've gotten very good at translating what's in my head into sound, but piano improv won't help you create the right timbre for that sound. That and combining those timbres to get the sound I want is my major hangup at this point. And arranging... fuck arranging. That really just doesn't come naturally for me one bit.

Also, try playing by ear what you hear in some of your favorite video game themes. Figure out the melody, then figure out the chords, or at least the root note of each chord. Then, you can use the chords or roots to improvise your own melody or make variations of the original. Get good at this, and writing leads will become second nature.

And about the theory, you don't need to know everything, but knowing basics like rhythm, key signatures, time signatures, chords, harmony, and intervals is essential. Just bite the bullet and learn em

its hard though, if you don't have the right timbre its hard for me to determine what the notes are im trying to transpose

[mickomoo]

my problem is i have something in my head, but i have no idea what instrument i need or where i could get it, usually because its not in the preset library or is not free, or is just hard to find, or i dont know the name of it, or it is a layer and i dont know what combination of instruments i should use.

also my knowledge of theory is not to the point where i cant just translate immediately, usually when i write it down on PC the emotions change due to timber, incorrect key, incorrect notes, and temporal anomalies. most importantly i get bored of the song in my head and it transforms into something else on paper...

I'm starting to think that it's just best to physically write down compositions and create a sheet music... well if I ever become truly commuted to the ideas in my head.

[Nabeel Ansari]

what are you thoughts. do you think that great songs are made in one day, or it's just as possible to make great songs made over the span of several days?

You phrase this question really weird, as if doing it over several days is abnormal.

I made my prelude remix on the front page in two days (more or less hours)

its hard though, if you don't have the right timbre its hard for me to determine what the notes are im trying to transpose

You don't need any timbre for transcribing. If you can't tell when a piano and an NES synth is playing the same note, you need to work on that if you plan to make remixes.

[Sir_NutS]

There's no right way to do things when it comes to songwriting or composition. It doesn't matter what professional X does or doesn't do. For example, some people prefer to sketch songs out first and then fill out the parts over time. Other people (like me) write songs in a linear manner. When I finish the last note of the song, the whole thing is 99% done on the production end too.

I've used this method since forever. When I finish a song, all it needs are little adjustments.

[erineclipse]

You phrase this question really weird, as if doing it over several days is abnormal.

I made my prelude remix on the front page in two days (more or less hours)

You don't need any timbre for transcribing. If you can't tell when a piano and an NES synth is playing the same note, you need to work on that if you plan to make remixes.

Well a NES synth and piano isn't that much different, when you get into the more futuristic synths with special fx applied and there's several other notes playing at the same time it start's getting harder.

Also, my friends said it was abnormal, lol..

[eilios]

I usually write a song in around 3-4 days. It's because I get pretty nitpicky with small things and go all OCD-crusade on every little thing I dislike. Everyone has their own process, though, and in the past I used to write songs in one day. They felt really repetitive, so I spent more time on arrangement, and I think my music improved for it. This isn't to say it's the right way to do it, it's just to say this is how I do it.