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League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!


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Ok if it actually actively finds bad team members for you when you're on a winning streak then it's a pretty dumb system (cause you're getting punished for doing well).

I assumed it worked similarly to HoN (and I guess Dota 2 as well) where if you win a game your rating/ELO gets increased and you simply get put in games with a higher average skill level. If you can't keep up and you lose, your skill rating will drop again. Point is that after x amount of games you should always average out without the game intentionally stacking odds against you.

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we'll add you - we usually do an ARAM or two every night.

Ok if it actually actively finds bad team members for you when you're on a winning streak then it's a pretty dumb system (cause you're getting punished for doing well).

I assumed it worked similarly to HoN (and I guess Dota 2 as well) where if you win a game your rating/ELO gets increased and you simply get put in games with a higher average skill level. If you can't keep up and you lose, your skill rating will drop again. Point is that after x amount of games you should always average out without the game intentionally stacking odds against you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

the issue here being it's created for one player games.

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LoL's matchmaking doesn't actively try to put you on bad teams when you're doing well. You're right that it DOES attempt to find matches where the chance of either side winning is 50-50. What else would you want it to do?

However, elo hell definitely exists. If you take, say, a group of 1500 ELO players then chances are very good they all belong there. It takes a number of games to get to that point. Therefore it is unlikely that an unskilled player just happened to luck his or her way up to 1500. Likewise, if someone is at 800, it would be very unlikely that they're actually good and just happened to play 30+ bad games in a row to drop down.

However, when you get into the 1000-1300 range or so, things get murky. This is the range of people doing their placement matches, and people who have recently completed them. Someone at 1200 might actually belong at 1700, but just haven't made it yet. Or, someone at 1100 might belong in the 600 and is still on their way down. Tensei's right that feeders could be on either team, but the point is that in the "elo hell" range, there is a much wider variance in skill level than there should be. As a result of all this statistical noise, whether you win or lose becomes more a matter of luck than anything else. Once you push past that range (which I am only just now starting to do), things begin to clear up. Your losses aren't because of random feeders or people on the other side going 20-1, but because you just got outplayed. Likewise with your wins.

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LoL's matchmaking doesn't actively try to put you on bad teams when you're doing well. You're right that it DOES attempt to find matches where the chance of either side winning is 50-50. What else would you want it to do?

this is correct, for normals. basically, it tries to balance the average elo fo your team with the average of the other team. so you could end up on a team of all 1400, or all 800 where you're 1400, and it's balanced with what the other team's elo is.

for ranked, there is no adjustment after the placement matches. you're slotted in your ELO until you leave it.

edit: and, yes, elo hell is clearly there. i have games where i'm going 13-4-10 as morde - basically a hypercarry - and we're still getting absolutely HOSED in games because bottom lane feeds so hard. it's most frustrating as a jungler - lanes invariably push all the way to the enemy towers, and then teammates complain that i never gank. or, as a top in a 2v1 situation, where my team complains because i keep getting dove under towers. i had a 1-4-5 morde game that was a surrender at 20 because we were losing 25-8, and they blamed me for feeding when i was against a fiora (120ad at l2) and they had a fiddles that literally just sat in gankbush and feared me every time i walked out of tower range. i had top farm and most gold for the game DESPITE that. meanwhile our bot lane was diving at level 2 and got double-killed by the other team's vayne a total of seven times by 15 minutes, with one kill and one assist to show for it. it's that kind of unawareness about what's going on in games that frustrates me even more than people who are bad at their champs. worst part is that this is at 1200 ELO, which is where i am sitting right around now. i have been fluctuating between 1175 and 1125 for ages, and i just can't get a team that doesn't have a randomizer, a troll, a failure of a comp, or a leaver. my last eight ranked games have featured five leavers and two randomlocks (we won a 4v5 anyways). that's TERRIBLE.

ranked leavers need to be punished, and they're not, any more than other leavers. it's so frustrating.

Edited by prophetik music
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AFK at champ select should just drop everyone back to queue. Leavers should get auto-reported in addition to team reports. Tribunal DOES work too, but you need to actively report people and get your teammates to as well.

I've found that playing support, mid or AD bot (pretty much in that order) is the best idea if you want to carry games. Jungler and top don't influence things enough (IMO) unless you're a godly scaling jungler. Support lets you save your stupid teammates over and over. Let's say a mistake at bot would normally kill both people because they're both bad. If you're good, and you're the support, you can save both of you. If you're the AD, and support is bad, you both die. Ranged AD scales really well, so if you can like a boss (70 CS in 10 mins minimum) then you can usually hypercarry at the end as Graves, Cait, etc. A strong mid can constantly gank other lanes.

Just my 2 cents. But yeah, it is very hard to pull yourself out.

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LoL's matchmaking doesn't actively try to put you on bad teams when you're doing well.

after reading about the origins of Elo and witnessing yet my THIRD 12 game losing streak after breaking 1320-1350, i find this impossible to believe anymore

and i'm not talking JUST losing, i mean completely arbitrary, forced losses due to either a 100% terrible team or no less than 2 cruch players griefing/leaving/ruining the experience.

Edited by relyanCe
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Losing streaks are usually a result of you psyching yourself out, not pure bad luck... you get in a bad mood, you lose confidence, etc. Usually a better idea to stop and do something else. Anyway, the elo system does work, otherwise everyone would be in the same range. Clearly 1900 players are better than 800s. I just think the elo hell range makes life harder by making it mostly luck as to whether or not you get out, unless you are a SUPERB player way above that range (which most of us are not.)

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Hey all, just realized there's a thread here- If anyone wants to friend me, I'm Crunch Butsteak and I'm at level 20. I usually play AD carry, so feel free to invite me if you're around the same level or don't mind giving me a chance to play against higher levels.

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after reading about the origins of Elo and witnessing yet my THIRD 12 game losing streak after breaking 1320-1350, i find this impossible to believe anymore

and i'm not talking JUST losing, i mean completely arbitrary, forced losses due to either a 100% terrible team or no less than 2 cruch players griefing/leaving/ruining the experience.

this.

i had a 10-2 run last week and this week have lost every ranked game but one, despite winning my lane/being a very effecting jungler in literally *every single one.* in my last three games, one last night and two today, every single lane that wasn't mine lost. in the first 8-10 minutes. the statistical probability of this happening is astronomically low, if the system is attempting to put together games of aggregate skill.

i was at around 1135 earlier this week and now i'm practically in danger of being under 1000 because there's only been a single game in which i had a fighting chance to make my team win since about tuesday.

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It's true that sometimes you just can't win due to leavers and such. However, you usually can win by simply being good enough. This does not only mean carrying your team, but also coordinating it, including getting your teammates to cooperate. This is a team based game, so these things are part of the skills of a good player. Most people don't realize this. Not to mention the fact that if you have a coordinated team of players you know and with whom you can communicate via voicechat, for example Skype, you will do much better than if you just randomly soloqueue. Another thing is that this is a videogame. Take it less seriously, stop raging at everyone, and you'll enjoy it much more, and will consequently start doing better, as well. Not to mention that teammates react much better to kind words than to rage. I have turned around so many losing games simply by motivating my teammates. It may sound like hippie bullshit, but it works wonders.

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that's the point, right?

past like 1400 you can pretty much solidly effect whether or not you win games

before that it's a crapshoot

Haven't there been multiple pro players that pretty much soloqueued their way to the top? I know chu8 did it with Maokai, so it's not like the system intends for everyone to stay sub 1400.

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Haven't there been multiple pro players that pretty much soloqueued their way to the top? I know chu8 did it with Maokai, so it's not like the system intends for everyone to stay sub 1400.

i'm not debating that if you're the best you can do it. my point is that pre-1300ish there's really no distinction between good or bad players through the elo system, thus creating the aforementioned crapshoot.

i also want to note that i think the most competitive and competently minded games i played in LOL came at summoner level 27 or so, where people still take it seriously but it hasn't gotten frontloaded with people who have just played long enough to get to level 30. completely serious.

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instalock ap trist, ww in jungle instalock, vares bot, i play morde top. what does the fifth player lock with five seconds left? gragas. guess who goes 0-0-30 "for the gold"? gragas. guess who decides to go AP ww? also guess who refuses to surrender after giving up fifteen kills in ten minutes? not this guy! and when i comment on how bad the comp is, gragas says, "wait, morde is ap?" and truly means it.

RAGE

i've been playing mummy top lately and really enjoying it. he's a real damage dealer depending on how you build him, and with my build (abyssal/rylais/guardian angel/eleisa's miracle/spellpen boots/wota) he heals a ton as well as being very mobile. i've gotten first blood several times and he farms well. it's particularly nice being able to nab blue all the time from them if i'm top purple.

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